Expatriating from America to elsewhere

[Cat]

Japan MIGHT be an option.

In Japan, they are having fewer than 1 child per woman, and almost zero immigration. So, in half a generation, (about 40 years) , Japan will demographically self destruct. They are already hiring foreigners in my occupation (airline pilot) simply because they do not have enough bodies.

So there will be a deserted country with great infrastructure. Maybe like minded people could bad together negotiate the rights to set up a colony in Japan.

My source for the demographic info is “America Alone” by Mark Steyn. I highly recommend it.

But what is the commute situation? A few years ago, when the Olympics were in Japan, the report was that most people lived several hundred miles away from their jobs, and they stayed in “sleeping cubicles” during the week, then commuted back home for a weekend with their families. Yucko.

It’s also extremely polluted, and I hear that the suicide rate is one of the highest in the world. (No wonder, sleeping in a cubicle.)

I was watching an Oprah program about Denmark, which is often made out to be the Utopia–free health care and free education. But a typical family of five (two parents, three children) lives in a tiny flat in a high-rise complex. No way! I don’t need to live in a castle, but I kind of like a room that’s big enough to turn around in without bumping into someone else! And marriage is considered unneccessary. Whoopee.

Unless God has actually called you to be an expatriot and move somewhere else in the world, I think that most Americans would be pretty obnoxious overseas, talking about the good life back in the U.S.!

 

[ack]

But what is the commute situation? A few years ago, when the Olympics were in Japan, the report was that most people lived several hundred miles away from their jobs, and they stayed in “sleeping cubicles” during the week, then commuted back home for a weekend with their families. Yucko.

It’s also extremely polluted, and I hear that the suicide rate is one of the highest in the world. (No wonder, sleeping in a cubicle.)

Also, let’s not forget that less than 1% of the Japanese population is Christian (and even fewer are Catholic.) If you want to move to Japan because the atmosphere in the United States is becoming hostile to Christianity, you are probably in for a rude awakening. (If you view your move as a missionary project and develop ties to a missionary order in Japan, moving to Japan could be a life-changing experience, but doing effective mission work will be very difficult if you are not of Japanese descent.

And, for everyone who wants to move to Canada because the US is becoming more socialistic…why? Even after Obama, Canada will still be a more socialist country than the US (it has a mature public healthcare system and more of a social safety net than the US.) (It makes more sense if you wanted to leave the US because of George Bush – I can see why that would be logical.)

It makes no sense to leave the US because of socialism and then move to a more socialist country.

Australia…maybe. Although Catholic ideas don’t seem to get much respect in Australia, it does seem to be one of the few countries in the world that’s amiable to conservative thought, which would make it a feasible destination for someone who’s afraid of Obama.

 

[Rose5]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

You might think I’m being an alarmist, but I would like to think of the future. I’m not one to stress out about the future and break down because of the stress, yet I will acknowledge the future. The way things have been transpiring in this country over the past several years that make me wary of the future of it. More recently, grabs by the government to increasingly centralize and amass more power have me wary as well (the health care issue comes to mind for many). I am seriously considering the option of leaving to live in another country, perhaps Australia or New Zealand.

Please make no mistake, I’m not an impulsive person and would not do this on a whim without any thought or preparation. I have started to save up money, in the event that things go further south; although, this is hard making minimum wage and being a student at the same time. I talked about this with my mother earlier and she is very interested in the idea. I am looking into it further as more of a back-up plan than anything else. Of course there is much to factor into a decision like this.

I can’t be so naive as to think that a Soviet state (or something similar) can’t happen here in the States. No one thought it would happen to the Russians. The Romanians didn’t see it coming and surely the majority of Germans and Italians didn’t see it happen when their governments were taken over in the 20s and 30s. The useful thing about history, beside its being fascinating, is that we can learn from it and see warning signs. Of course, this is one young man’s opinion.

I am rather curious to what the fine people of these fora think about the subject? Is it something to think about or is it sophomoric?

In Christ,
Andrew

Hello!

In some ways I can understand, in my own way, where you are coming from with
your thoughts on this particular subject.
Way back in the 70’s, after packing up all my belonging’s in 3 steamer trunks, I
moved with my dog to Amsterdam, Netherlands.
After over 4-5 years of living there and embracing the Dutch lifestyle (there are many),
I actually contemplated giving up my citizenship in the U.S so as to become a Dutch
citizen.
Well, thank goodness the Lord our God, and probably my Guardian Angel, led me to
a deeper introspection, and gave me the proper discernment to get back to the good 'ole
USA!
Never again have I ever wished to even go live in another country, let alone give up my
citizenship here.

 

[Gearoidin]

But what is the commute situation? A few years ago, when the Olympics were in Japan, the report was that most people lived several hundred miles away from their jobs, and they stayed in “sleeping cubicles” during the week, then commuted back home for a weekend with their families. Yucko.

It’s also extremely polluted, and I hear that the suicide rate is one of the highest in the world. (No wonder, sleeping in a cubicle.)
.!

Wow, that was a bit of biased reporting! Having lived in Japan for 12 years or so, I have yet to find anyone who lives in “sleeping cubicles”. I have met people who, when taking on overnight business trip to Tokyo have stayed in a capsule hotel, often just for the experience. They could have stayed in a regular business hotel.
I live in western Japan not Tokyo, but even the people I know living in Tokyo, live within an hour to 90 minutes of their work place. They live in apartments that are certainly very small by US standards but are not “capsule hotels”.
Here in western Japan, I live in a house, 10 minutes by bicycle from my place of work. We are surrounded by orange farms and a national park with numerous hiking trails. From my living-room I can see most of down-town from along with a large part of the Inland Sea. In this area nearly everyone lives within 30 minutes (by public transport) of their workplace, families live together and usually only one parent works. Large cities are polluted but most of Japan is mountainous, covered in forests and has large areas of natural beauty. Not all of Japan is like Tokyo or Osaka.
Gearoidin

 

[fultonfish]

Move to Alaska.

There, the government actually pays the residents. No joke. The Alaska gets royalties from the oil companies and redistributes the money to the residents of Alaska.

 

[abort73catholic]

Australia is rather tight on immigration. Don’t count on it.

Besides, their culture is no better than ours. I say calm down and consider Nebraska.

Is that supposed to be a slam against Nebraska or a compliment?

(coming from a Nebraskan herself)

 

[fultonfish]

*Hi Andrew;

I am surprised how many people voted that they think it’s foolish to want to move out of America. lol Wow. I think it would be an extreme last resort, and things would have to be REALLY bad…but yes, my husband and I have thought about it…seriously thought about it. I posted a thread not long ago asking about New Zealand. The thing to keep in mind people on here told me is that it’s not so simple to just pick up and move to another country. Nowadays, in light of the world economy, one has to have a desirable skill set for a country to ‘take’ you. I work for a global company, I suppose I could always relocate with them. But, it would be a last resort. I think that we are all anxious over the future, but does the perfect place exist? Probably not…and like others have said, this is still the best place on earth, in terms of freedom. I just wanted to chime in that I don’t think it’s a foolish thought at all…

My kids would LOVE to move to Canada or Japan. Japan is out. It’s sky high cost of living there…and too crowded. Canada wouldn’t be bad…*

I was watching House Hunters International and they visit some really great places. Like Belize. [Although I noticed that they had bars on the windows. Can’t be the crime. Must be the large mosquitos.]

We have friends who moved from Zimbabwe to Belgium and although I’m sure they hate it, they now live in Florida.

 

[whatevergirl]

I was watching House Hunters International and they visit some really great places. Like Belize. [Although I noticed that they had bars on the windows. Can’t be the crime. Must be the large mosquitos.]

We have friends who moved from Zimbabwe to Belgium and although I’m sure they hate it, they now live in Florida.

*hahaha *

 

[DoulaMama]

I said Canada wouldn’t be bad, I didn’t say I’m heading there tomorrow. lol We probably will have tax payer abortion, eventually, it will just be hidden or disguised as something else. It just won’t be part of the healthcare bill…with such an outspoken President who is pro abortion, I can’t see him not trying to fund it through our taxes. But, I keep praying that he won’t succeed on that.

The silver lining, is that I think our current administration has really upset a lot of people who voted for them. This isn’t the change they were hoping for, and I’m thinking that he is a one term President at the rate he’s going. I just pray that our country isn’t harmed beyond repair during these next few years.

I hear ya!! The wide-open spaces of the Great White North sound appealing to us down here in the States, but before you start making any rudimentary plans, I 'd visit the website of my favorite Catholic author, Michael O’Brien, and see what his latest articles and writings reflect about the political climate of Canada. His website is www.studiobrien.com He is thoroughly orthodox in his Catholic faith and I trust his views as to what is happening regarding laws and policies from Ottawa.

 

[Jan_Bolbot]

I don’t know about this doom and gloom, the end is nigh type of thinking. America is on the wrong track politically and morally but we’ve been here before and we came back. I wouldn’t write this off just yet. Remember all of the Hollyweird celebrities who were claiming they’d move to Canada if George Bush was elected again? None of them left.

Besides, if enough people took your advice you’d help create the very situation you fear. We’re called on be the leaven in the bread–to witness to society of Christ’s love. If America becomes a communist dictatorship tomorrow (highly unlikely, of course) we will be called on to witness for our faith perhaps at the cost of our lives. Every communist dictatorship in the world has tried to crush Christianity. Everyone has failed.

I used to be a member of the current majority party when their were far more pro-lifers in that party. But look at Rep. Stupak from Michigan–he fought like crazy to put in a provision for the House health care bill explicitly banning all funding for abortion. The leadership of party will hate him, they’ll try to unseat him in the next election. For all I disagree with him on many issues (like the overall direction of health care reform), this took real courage. If you walk out of here because the current occupant of the white house is a narcissistic closet radical, you also walk on those like Mr. Stupak who are trying hard to do the right thing and need Christians to stand up and do the right thing in public life.

jb

 

[shannyk]

I’ve thought about it a lot and my husband and I have talked about it. The main thing keeping us in the US would be our families… but I’m not sure if that will keep us hear indefinitely.

I did live in Africa when I attended the University of Cape Town and I can say that I absolutely did not want to come back to United States, ever, when I boarded the plane for the long flight back to the states.

My family tree goes back to the Virginia and Massachusetts colonies, but I don’t really see that binding me here. The greatest tie truly is family.

I love SA too, and love Africa in general (except for the heat) but I was still a US citizen when I was there. It’s a whole different ballgame, relinquishing your US citizenship. As a US citizen anywhere in the world, the US has your back. I would not be in a hurry to give that up knowing that other countries on this planet do not share the same level of appreciation for human rights and will not go quite as far to defend their citizens.

This while discussion must be fueled by the popular political pundits of the day???.

 

[Rach620]

This while discussion must be fueled by the popular political pundits of the day???.

I’m not sure about that. I haven’t heard any pundits talking about leaving the USA. More than anything, most of the conservative pundits (Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, Laura Ingraham, Charles Krauthammer, et al) are fiercely loyal to the US and incredibly patriotic, and I can’t imagine a situation where any of them would support abandoning the USA.

As for the OP, I voted “No, it’s foolish.” I agree with many others who have posted that as Catholics we are called to be the leaven in the dough, to transform our communities from within by witnessing to our faith and living the Christian life. If you can’t see how that is working on the large, national-level scale, focus on your local community. If you hate your local community and find its goals and offerings incompatible with yours, there are plenty of others in this great nation of ours where you can make your home.

The US is probably the Western country that is most politically conservative and most friendly to Christianity. And there ain’t no place like home.

 

[vee8]

Also, let’s not forget that less than 1% of the Japanese population is Christian (and even fewer are Catholic.) If you want to move to Japan because the atmosphere in the United States is becoming hostile to Christianity, you are probably in for a rude awakening. (If you view your move as a missionary project and develop ties to a missionary order in Japan, moving to Japan could be a life-changing experience, but doing effective mission work will be very difficult if you are not of Japanese descent.

There are some Japanese who view Christianity as an inferior outside pollutant but they are few and far between. The majority of people here have very little understanding of Catholicism, Protestantism etc so they tend to take an ambivalent attitude. Two of the main reasons for hostility against Catholic and Protestants today in the US are abortion and gay marriage neither of which are debated here. Abortion was legalized here around 1949 and it was debated and opposed at that time but its been around for so long now people have pretty much given up trying to stop it. Gay marriage has not been and is not up for debate. On the subject of being a missionary, as Catholics we are all called to evangelize those around us and it is grace not race that converts people.

 

[ac_claire]

Hi Andrew

I voted: “No, but I’m a little curious about it” only because my husband is from England and we’ve talked about moving there someday. I don’t think we will though-- our plans are in the US. And if we did it wouldn’t be because we were despairing over the political state of this country.

I do think your OP is a bit of a misplaced frustration/fear. ALL countries have their problems, and from what I know, in the big scheme of things, America is a pretty nice place. This is of course relatively speaking. This is one of the few discussions where I think relativism is the only realistic way to look at things.

There is no truly Christian political state/society in the world today. You live in a great country. You might try looking at the positives and the things you can do to improve life for yourself and your family. Try not to get so caught up in fear over the negatives, because they are everywhere. In every country.