"Expelled"

[PatThePoet]

Here’s the story.

I was baptized Catholic. Raised Episcopalian by devout parents (not devout Episcopalians but devout believers in Christ)I researched pretty much every religious organization. Some of the more colorful ones being Mormonism, Pentocostalism, and Eastern Asian Mysticism. Considered myself Agnoistic for spirts of time here and there. I finally accecpted Christ fully and reaserched Christanity in depth (coming to realize that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus). I started looking into first Communion and Confirmation. I have been going to Mass for about six months

Then the crux of my story, I went to Mass last Sunday. This realtivly new Eastern European (Latin Rite) priest ad-libbed most of the prayers and delievered a poor broken homily. The cantor was utterly terriable and off-tune whilst trying to lead the unintrested congregation in 1970’s spirituals, the altar GIRLS couldn’t even stand still at the altar, the people pushed and shoved each other to take communion, and the ushers were rude as anything.

Leaving the church (a bit annoyed but still faithful) I went to the theater with a friend’s Methodist youth group. They were going to see Ben Stein’s new documentary “Expelled”. I went into the theater a faithful Catholic perhaps considering a monastic life, I left the theater troubled.

I started reading more in depth on Darwin and Natural Selection. We had been learning Evolution in biology class and I had been questioning Creation. For the past week I have been a wreck. I seem agnoistic now, but still clinging to religion. Perhaps I was just a week fool to but into the scam of religion. Is there a God? DAWKINS SEEMS RIGHT, SCIENCE SEEMS RIGHT, THE FOSSIL RECORD SEEMS RIGHT, DARWIN SEEMS RIGHT.

IS GOD DEAD?

DARWINISM SEEMS THE WAY, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE

I NEED HELP!

 

[RobbyS]

Here’s the story.

I was baptized Catholic. Raised Episcopalian by devout parents (not devout Episcopalians but devout believers in Christ)I researched pretty much every religious organization. Some of the more colorful ones being Mormonism, Pentocostalism, and Eastern Asian Mysticism. Considered myself Agnoistic for spirts of time here and there. I finally accecpted Christ fully and reaserched Christanity in depth (coming to realize that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus). I started looking into first Communion and Confirmation. I have been going to Mass for about six months

Then the crux of my story, I went to Mass last Sunday. This realtivly new Eastern European (Latin Rite) priest ad-libbed most of the prayers and delievered a poor broken homily. The cantor was utterly terriable and off-tune whilst trying to lead the unintrested congregation in 1970’s spirituals, the altar GIRLS couldn’t even stand still at the altar, the people pushed and shoved each other to take communion, and the ushers were rude as anything.

Leaving the church (a bit annoyed but still faithful) I went to the theater with a friend’s Methodist youth group. They were going to see Ben Stein’s new documentary “Expelled”. I went into the theater a faithful Catholic perhaps considering a monastic life, I left the theater troubled.

I started reading more in depth on Darwin and Natural Selection. We had been learning Evolution in biology class and I had been questioning Creation. For the past week I have been a wreck. I seem agnoistic now, but still clinging to religion. Perhaps I was just a week fool to but into the scam of religion. Is there a God? DAWKINS SEEMS RIGHT, SCIENCE SEEMS RIGHT, THE FOSSIL RECORD SEEMS RIGHT, DARWIN SEEMS RIGHT.

IS GOD DEAD?

DARWINISM SEEMS THE WAY, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE

I NEED HELP!

Charles Darwin has literally nothing to say about Creation in"Origin of Species."and Dawkins knows very little about the Christian faith. (and to show how deep his understanding of things is, consider that he thinks it reasonable that the earth was seeded with life by space aliens.) As for '“Genesis I suggest you get a copy of a little book by Pope Benedict(as Cardinal Ratzinger in 1986) Called “In the beginning.” a Catholic Understanding of the Creation and the Fall.” It consists of several homilies on the topic. Not easy reading but you can manage. You probably can get a used copy on Amazon for much less then $20.00

 

[Minnie31]

Leaving the church (a bit annoyed but still faithful) I went to the theater with a friend’s Methodist youth group. They were going to see Ben Stein’s new documentary “Expelled”. I went into the theater a faithful Catholic perhaps considering a monastic life, I left the theater troubled.

I started reading more in depth on Darwin and Natural Selection. We had been learning Evolution in biology class and I had been questioning Creation. For the past week I have been a wreck. I seem agnoistic now, but still clinging to religion. Perhaps I was just a week fool to but into the scam of religion. Is there a God? DAWKINS SEEMS RIGHT, SCIENCE SEEMS RIGHT, THE FOSSIL RECORD SEEMS RIGHT, DARWIN SEEMS RIGHT.

IS GOD DEAD?

DARWINISM SEEMS THE WAY, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE

I NEED HELP!

Don’t be a wreck about all of this. You are learning and learning is a good thing. It makes you think and try to make sense of our existence. Embrace whatever path your knowledge and logic leads you, and always be open to learning more and never stop until the day you die.

I’m an agnostic and remember what it was like when I first questioned God’s existence. It’s a bit scary to start thinking that things may be totally different than what you were taught when you were young. But hang in there, and most importantly be honest with yourself about what you are thinking and feeling and don’t let anyone sway you one way or the other. It’s great to get others’ opinions, but I think it’s most important to form your own and perfectly fine to change your views from time to time.

 

[buffalo]

Science by its own definition has a limited say about the universe. It can say nothing about the supernatural. Do not fall into the “If I can’t touch it I won’t believe it trap”.

Faith and Reason cannot be opposed for they flow from the very same God.

Search for the truth with a completely open mind. Faith is defined in the Catechism as opening your heart and mind to God.

 

[hawkeye]

IS GOD DEAD?

No, Darwin is, unless he is alive in the Lord.

DARWINISM SEEMS THE WAY, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE

Way to what, Jesus said He is the Way the Truth and the Life, did Darwin die for you ? …NO, big surprise, then follow the one that did.

I NEED HELP!

You do, hope I can.

 

[faithfulrock3r]

Darwinism? never heard of it. if you are in some way suggesting that Darwin’s theories have been made into some kind of religion, and you can only believe him, or God, then you’re quite mistaken. There is no reason that someone cannot both believe in God, and realize that the way he created our planet was through evolution. even JPII acknowledged evolution as a widely accepted theory (while perhaps not entirely endorsing it himself).

Unfortunately for Dawkins, there is no split between science and God. God created the world, science is the objective method by which we examine the word which He created. Dawkins, put simply, is entirely out of his league when it comes to theology, and has very little knowledge, nor sway, when talking about God.

 

[lizaanne]

There is only one Truth. There can not be multiple truths. So after you have mucked around with getting all confused by all the trash out there, settle down, purchase some really good books about the Church Fathers, and start learning about The One True Faith. Highly recommended: Faith of the Early Fathers

And click on the link in my signature and start listening to the pod casts. Then call the number and ask every single question you can think of - the staff will be more than happy to help you and speak with you one on one.

God is not dead, He hasn’t gone anywhere. He’s just waiting for you to find Him.

~Liza

 

[strngrnrth]

Science doesn’t support atheism. That’s why many top scientists are theists or deists, at least. Many more are agnostic. Atheism is most common among social scientists, who deal with softer standards of proof and more philosophizing.
The fact that star-seed theories appeal to atheists illustrates their desperation to explain where life came form. The more they look at life, the more they see that our planet’s few billion years are inadequate to launch it. The more they know of our universe, the more an astounding mind seems to guide it. Because they can’t stand the idea of God, they postulate vast civilizations.
The problem is that NO well-situated known or predictable solar system is likely to harbor a planet that meets the criteria for life, and has met them longer than Earth has.

 

[jwatza]

Show me the proof for evolution of species. Though there is adaptation within a species, there is no convincing evidence that evolution from one species to another has occurred. Where are the transitional fossils? We should see many fossils of species transitioning from one to another. There is so much info. out there that pokes serious holes in the evolution theory—take a look at some of it. Call out to God with your doubts, He is there and He will show you the way. Don’t let one poorly done Mass deter your search for truth.

 

[Cajetan]

Pat,

Start praying the Rosary daily. Before you pray it, ask the Virgin Mary to help you in this struggle and any others. See what happens.

I also strongly suggest becoming acquainted with the philosophy of Thomas Aquinas (the Summa contra Gentiles and Summa Theologica in particular). Also check out some the more recent Thomistic philosophers, such as Jacques Maritain, Etienne Gilson, and Josef Pieper.

God bless. We’re here for you.

 

[Pete_1]

The Catholic church does not forbid belief in theistic evolution.

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html

 

[East_and_West]

Here’s the story.

I was baptized Catholic. Raised Episcopalian by devout parents (not devout Episcopalians but devout believers in Christ)I researched pretty much every religious organization. Some of the more colorful ones being Mormonism, Pentocostalism, and Eastern Asian Mysticism. Considered myself Agnoistic for spirts of time here and there. I finally accecpted Christ fully and reaserched Christanity in depth (coming to realize that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus). I started looking into first Communion and Confirmation. I have been going to Mass for about six months

Then the crux of my story, I went to Mass last Sunday. This realtivly new Eastern European (Latin Rite) priest ad-libbed most of the prayers and delievered a poor broken homily. The cantor was utterly terriable and off-tune whilst trying to lead the unintrested congregation in 1970’s spirituals, the altar GIRLS couldn’t even stand still at the altar, the people pushed and shoved each other to take communion, and the ushers were rude as anything.

Leaving the church (a bit annoyed but still faithful) I went to the theater with a friend’s Methodist youth group. They were going to see Ben Stein’s new documentary “Expelled”. I went into the theater a faithful Catholic perhaps considering a monastic life, I left the theater troubled.

I started reading more in depth on Darwin and Natural Selection. We had been learning Evolution in biology class and I had been questioning Creation. For the past week I have been a wreck. I seem agnoistic now, but still clinging to religion. Perhaps I was just a week fool to but into the scam of religion. Is there a God? DAWKINS SEEMS RIGHT, SCIENCE SEEMS RIGHT, THE FOSSIL RECORD SEEMS RIGHT, DARWIN SEEMS RIGHT.

IS GOD DEAD?

DARWINISM SEEMS THE WAY, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE

I NEED HELP!

What does Darwinism have to do with the existence of God?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

There is fundamentally nothing in contradiction between Darwin and evolution and faith. They are two quite different things. Catholics do not for the most part (there is a small minority who disagree) accept the bible as infallible when it comes to matters outside faith. Science is a way of discerning the natural world. That is not incompatible with faith in anyway. God is the original creator and apparently chose and allowed evolution as the method by which life evolved over time. Much of this will be cleared up when you take RCIA classes and learn how the bible should be treated.

 

[rossum]

Then the crux of my story, I went to Mass last Sunday. This realtivly new Eastern European (Latin Rite) priest ad-libbed most of the prayers and delievered a poor broken homily. The cantor was utterly terriable and off-tune whilst trying to lead the unintrested congregation in 1970’s spirituals, the altar GIRLS couldn’t even stand still at the altar, the people pushed and shoved each other to take communion, and the ushers were rude as anything.

Sorry to hear of your disappointment.

Leaving the church (a bit annoyed but still faithful) I went to the theater with a friend’s Methodist youth group. They were going to see Ben Stein’s new documentary “Expelled”. I went into the theater a faithful Catholic perhaps considering a monastic life, I left the theater troubled.

I started reading more in depth on Darwin and Natural Selection. We had been learning Evolution in biology class and I had been questioning Creation. For the past week I have been a wreck. I seem agnoistic now, but still clinging to religion. Perhaps I was just a week fool to but into the scam of religion. Is there a God? DAWKINS SEEMS RIGHT, SCIENCE SEEMS RIGHT, THE FOSSIL RECORD SEEMS RIGHT, DARWIN SEEMS RIGHT.

IS GOD DEAD?

DARWINISM SEEMS THE WAY, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE

I NEED HELP!

Expelled is a propaganda movie, it is about as unbiased as a Michael Moore film. One of the messages the film seems to want to put across is a false dichotomy between belief in God and the acceptance of evolution. This is a false dichotomy because there are many scientists who both believe in God and accept evolution. The Expelled team did not interview those scientists because it would have confused the message they were trying to put across.

Have a look at Ken Miller’s Evolution Page. Ken Miller is a Catholic Biologist (if you use the “Dragonfly” textbook, then Miller is one of the authors). He has no problem with believing in God and accepting evolution.

Richard Dawkins does use evolution to argue in favour of atheism, but there again, Richard Dawkins also uses the Bible to argue in favour of atheism. You do not have to accept Dawkins’ personal opinions on religion as science, they are not - they are just his personal opinions. Dawkins is right about evolution, that does not mean that he is right about atheism. Atheism is neither evolution nor science.

rossum

 

[The_Barbarian]

What does Darwinism have to do with the existence of God?

Not much, other than Darwin’s acknowledgement that He created the first living things. (Last sentence of “The Origin of Species”)

 

[VociMike]

I started reading more in depth on Darwin and Natural Selection. We had been learning Evolution in biology class and I had been questioning Creation. For the past week I have been a wreck. I seem agnoistic now, but still clinging to religion. Perhaps I was just a week fool to but into the scam of religion. Is there a God? DAWKINS SEEMS RIGHT, SCIENCE SEEMS RIGHT, THE FOSSIL RECORD SEEMS RIGHT, DARWIN SEEMS RIGHT.

OK, let’s grant for the sake of argument that the science behind Darwin is correct. Evolution happens just as they claim it does.

IS GOD DEAD?

Say what?! How do you get from there to here? How does Evolution being true equate to God’s nonexistence? That’s a total non-sequitur.

DARWINISM SEEMS THE WAY, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE

What do you mean, “the way”? Do you mean true science? I won’t argue against it (though others will). But what does it mean to call true science “the way”?

I NEED HELP!

Help with what? I don’t understand what your dilemma is.

 

[VociMike]

What does Darwinism have to do with the existence of God?

And that is the $64,000,000,000,000 question.

 

[RobbyS]

Sorry to hear of your disappointment.

Expelled is a propaganda movie, it is about as unbiased as a Michael Moore film. One of the messages the film seems to want to put across is a false dichotomy between belief in God and the acceptance of evolution. This is a false dichotomy because there are many scientists who both believe in God and accept evolution. The Expelled team did not interview those scientists because it would have confused the message they were trying to put across.

Have a look at Ken Miller’s Evolution Page. Ken Miller is a Catholic Biologist (if you use the “Dragonfly” textbook, then Miller is one of the authors). He has no problem with believing in God and accepting evolution.

Richard Dawkins does use evolution to argue in favour of atheism, but there again, Richard Dawkins also uses the Bible to argue in favour of atheism. You do not have to accept Dawkins’ personal opinions on religion as science, they are not - they are just his personal opinions. Dawkins is right about evolution, that does not mean that he is right about atheism. Atheism is neither evolution nor science.

rossum

Yes, “expelled” is a propoganda film, and yes, it is biased. But only against a cloudy and overly expansive version of the theory of Evolution.

 

[rossum]

Help with what? I don’t understand what your dilemma is.

I suspect that PatThePoet has mistakenly accepted the assertion by some creationists (and by the film Expelled) that you cannot both be Christian and accept evolution. Given that there is a great deal of evidence for evolution, then the dilemma is can a continued belief in Christianity be reasonably maintained?

The answer is of course, “Yes it can”, because the assertion that evolution implies atheism is false. Science is indeed incompatible with a 6 day/6000 year intepretation of Genesis, but there are many other ways of being Christian that do not require such an overly literalist interpretation of Genesis. Nor is such a literalist account of Genesis required by the Catholic Church.

rossum

 

[VociMike]

I suspect that PatThePoet has mistakenly accepted the assertion by some creationists (and by the film Expelled) that you cannot both be Christian and accept evolution. Given that there is a great deal of evidence for evolution, then the dilemma is can a continued belief in Christianity be reasonably maintained?

The answer is of course, “Yes it can”, because the assertion that evolution implies atheism is false. Science is indeed incompatible with a 6 day/6000 year intepretation of Genesis, but there are many other ways of being Christian that do not require such an overly literalist interpretation of Genesis. Nor is such a literalist account of Genesis required by the Catholic Church.

rossum

Yep. I don’t know who gets more riled up, atheists or fundamentalists, when Christians accept the true science found in evolution (note I don’t include any false science or propaganda). How does declaring “we now see how God did it!” ever lead to “thus there can be no God!”???