"Expelled"

[buffalo]

T

But it wouldn’t change the fact of human evolution from other primates. It would just be a nifty bit of cloning, with the miraculous substitution of on chromosome for another.

.

HUH? One can hardly use the fact that common building blocks of life are evidence of evolution. If God did fashion Adam from the ‘earth’ it should come as no surprise he would consist of materials present here on earth. It also should be no surprise that life looks like other life and that they have common life blocks. (ie DNA)

I would not call it cloning. Technically the Bible passage should read God formed Adam and Eve from the animals. It’s inconsistent.

 

[buffalo]

The miraculous creation of Eve from a tissue sample from Adam would certainly make it easier for creationists to accept, and there would be no way for science to deny it.

How about an adult stem cell? Wouldn’t it be real interesting if science finds the best place to get an adult stem cell is the rib.

 

[VociMike]

Well start with the red lighted.

Then move on to the next posts.

Would you argue in the same manner that Adam was formed literally and historically from dust?

 

[buffalo]

How about an adult stem cell? Wouldn’t it be real interesting if science finds the best place to get an adult stem cell is the rib.

I just amaze myself sometimes

Stem Cells

 

[buffalo]

Would you argue in the same manner that Adam was formed literally and historically from dust?

From the Hebrew rendering it to be clods, lumps of earth, soil, or dirt.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

The thread is straying from the OP’s original questions. Please stay on topic, everyone.

 

[The_Barbarian]

How about an adult stem cell? Wouldn’t it be real interesting if science finds the best place to get an adult stem cell is the rib.

Probably so. The marrow contains cells with much more variability than is found in most tissues. It would be one of the first adult cells I would consider for such a thing.

Obviously, genetics is only one of many, many lines of evidence that confirms that all living things have a common ancestor. This is not (as Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II have confirmed)
contrary to the teaching of the Church.

And nothing whatever in science denies the possibility that God simply took a bit of tissue from Adam and from it produced Eve. It seems unlikely, but it’s possible.

If so, it seems to have involved a chromosome fusion for both Adam and Eve.

Why does it matter? If God created humans by natural means, how is that a problem for us? That’s the way He does it today.

 

[drpmjhess]

Leaving the church (a bit annoyed but still faithful) I went to the theater with a friend’s Methodist youth group. They were going to see Ben Stein’s new documentary “Expelled”. I went into the theater a faithful Catholic perhaps considering a monastic life, I left the theater troubled.
DAWKINS SEEMS RIGHT, SCIENCE SEEMS RIGHT, THE FOSSIL RECORD SEEMS RIGHT, DARWIN SEEMS RIGHT.

IS GOD DEAD?

DARWINISM SEEMS THE WAY, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE

I NEED HELP!

Pat, let me offer you my two shekels. I write as a Catholic theologian, not a scientist, but I teach and work interdisciplinarily with biologists, chemists, physicists, and cosmologists, many of them brilliant scientists and faithful Catholic priests.

First, you are right that the theory of evolution is the only framework that adequately explains the evidence from the fossil records and from geology, paleontology, physical anthropology, genetics, comparative anatomy, and numerous other allied sciences. Evolution is in effect the only game in town, and is being strengthened every year as scientific investigation fills in gap after gap in our understanding of how God’s world works.

Second, Expelled is a sad attempt to discredit science, and it fails miserably, all the way from its largely fabricated stories of “persecuted scientists” to its attempt to portray evolutionists as Nazi exterminators. My eight-year-old came out of the movie with me last week saying “it was more boring than an infomercial for vacuum cleaners.” For every review you might read praising it, there are a hundred panning the film as a whiny, clunky, aimless, embarassing diatribe.

Third, don’t abandon religion because of some film, or even because of some bad liturgical experiences. I’ve been through my share of awful homilies and uninspiring Masses, but remember that liturgy means “work of the people.” We all do liturgy together, and we can make worship experiences more beautiful, meaningful, and prayerful. Moreover, our faith is strengthened when it is lived in grace, and if we maximize our efforts to “go forth to Love and serve the Lord” (as the liturgy commands us), we find our faith grows immeasurably.

Prayerfully yours,
Petrus

 

[reggieM]

’Expelled’ Filmmakers Claim ‘Over the Top’ Success
By Alexander J. Sheffrin
Christian Post Reporter
Tue, May. 06 2008 08:47 AM ET

“Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed,” the pro-intelligent design documentary featuring actor Ben Stein, made history this weekend as it skyrocketed into place as the 13th highest grossing documentary film of all time. Since its release on April 18, the film has earned an astounding $6.6 million while only in its 3rd week in the box office.

Despite opposition from critics such as Jeannette Catsoulis of the New York Times, who called the film a “conspiracy-theory rant masquerading as investigative inquiry,” producers of the movie said that reaction to the film and its ideas questioning the tenets of Darwinism had generated an “over the top” reaction among moviegoers.

“We did exit polling on the first weekend and the exit polling done in six states with 1,100 people showed that 97 percent of the people who were polled said they liked the film,” said associate producer Mark Mathis, according to Baptist Press.

 

[The_Barbarian]

A little perspective:

“Expelled” opened in 1,052 theatres and grossed $2,970,848 first week.

“Fahrenheit 9/11” opened in 868 theaters, and grossed $23,920,637 in the same period.

“Expelled” came in behind such gems as “Tupac; Resurrection.”

And they didn’t pay people to come see those documentaries. The fact that Stein and Co. are flacking so hard to get people into their show, suggests that even providing “donations” to churches that steer youth groups to the film, isn’t doing it for them.

“Over the top success?” I know who they hired for a PR guy…

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[rossum]

Have a look at Ken Miller’s Evolution Page. Ken Miller is a Catholic Biologist (if you use the “Dragonfly” textbook, then Miller is one of the authors). He has no problem with believing in God and accepting evolution.

Ken Miller has got a piece about Expelled in the Boston Globe, Trouble ahead for science:the editors of Scientific American asked Mark Mathis, the film’s co-producer, why he and Stein didn’t interview such people, like Francis Collins (head of the Human Genome Project), Francisco Ayala, or myself. Mathis cited me by name, saying “Ken Miller would have confused the film unnecessarily.” In other words, showing a scientist who accepts both God and evolution would have confused their story line.

rossum

 

[The_Barbarian]

In other words, showing a scientist who accepts both God and evolution would have confused their story line.

ID/creationists have always viewed the truth as a troublesome complication.

 

[drpmjhess]

Ken Miller has got a piece about Expelled in the Boston Globe, Trouble ahead for science:the editors of Scientific American asked Mark Mathis, the film’s co-producer, why he and Stein didn’t interview such people, like Francis Collins (head of the Human Genome Project), Francisco Ayala, or myself. Mathis cited me by name, saying “Ken Miller would have confused the film unnecessarily.” In other words, showing a scientist who accepts both God and evolution would have confused their story line.

rossum

Rossum, are you suggesting that “story line” is more important to Mathis and Stein than reality?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

A little perspective:

“Expelled” opened in 1,052 theatres and grossed $2,970,848 first week.

“Fahrenheit 9/11” opened in 868 theaters, and grossed $23,920,637 in the same period.

“Expelled” came in behind such gems as “Tupac; Resurrection.”

And they didn’t pay people to come see those documentaries. The fact that Stein and Co. are flacking so hard to get people into their show, suggests that even providing “donations” to churches that steer youth groups to the film, isn’t doing it for them.

“Over the top success?” I know who they hired for a PR guy…

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2003/04/iraq/07-info-minister-inside.jpg

LOL…You are wasting your time. The desperation in pushing anything that they hope will prove their position is of course the main reason they gain no adherents. Such ridiculous claims that this is some blockbuster when it is nothing more than a silly docuidocy wherein people of fundamentalist faith were bussed in to see it, should tell them something. It does not. In fact it convinces everyone that they have no case at all. Creationists convince only other creationists…they should have a picnic at that stupid creationist museum and leave the rational world alone.

 

[ricmat]

ID/creationists have always viewed the truth as a troublesome complication.

Are you sure that your statement above is true?

 

[drpmjhess]

LOL…You are wasting your time. The desperation in pushing anything that they hope will prove their position is of course the main reason they gain no adherents. Such ridiculous claims that this is some blockbuster when it is nothing more than a silly docuidocy wherein people of fundamentalist faith were bussed in to see it, should tell them something. It does not. In fact it convinces everyone that they have no case at all. Creationists convince only other creationists…they should have a picnic at that stupid creationist museum and leave the rational world alone.

SpiritMeadow, I agree that the initial flurry of excitement over Expelled will pass, just as our worry over the AiG museum last year has passed. However, I also see potential for long-term damage. Creationists create atheists when they indoctrinate children into thinking that YEC and IDC are science, and when these children grow up and learn otherwise.

It takes a person of stronger character to see through the creationist deception to the core truth of Christianity beneath it. The Catholic Church must continue to educate children in both a theologically and a scientifically sophisticated way that does not set the stage for false conflicts later between science and religion.

Petrus

 

[rossum]

Rossum, are you suggesting that “story line” is more important to Mathis and Stein than reality?

Not me, I was quoting Ken Miller from the reference given. However, given that they were making a movie then it is generally safe to assume that reality is less important that story line so I agree with Ken Miller.

rossum

 

[The_Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
ID/creationists have always viewed the truth as a troublesome complication.

Are you sure that your statement above is true?

Yep. Stein’s film is a great example. He didn’t interview any theists who accept evolution (although they are the great majority of Americans who accept evolution) because it would “confuse” his message.

Not to mention toss it in the dumpster. Would you like some more examples?

 

[The_Barbarian]

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"There are no United States forces in Baghdad.

And “Expelled” is an over-the-top success."

 

[RobbyS]

Barbarian observes:
ID/creationists have always viewed the truth as a troublesome complication.

Yep. Stein’s film is a great example. He didn’t interview any theists who accept evolution (although they are the great majority of Americans who accept evolution) because it would “confuse” his message.

Not to mention toss it in the dumpster. Would you like some more examples?

All those whom Stein is defending. What they question is not the concept but the specifics of the theory.