Experiance at a Catholic Funeral - Communion

[RTully]

What do you honestly think your grndfather would say? Be honest with yourself now. God knows your honest feelings He is your judge. As a catholic I have to say you were wrong not showing your grandfather’s beliefs respect. Pray about it, if you are a sincere christian you will be enlightened. God is merciful and we should be too.

fixxer

My Grandfather was a Lutheran until he married my Grandmother and converted. He stayed a member at the Catholic Church but did still attend some Lutheran services right until he died so I’m really not sure about what he would feel, I’d like to think he was happy I shared in the lords supper upon his passing but at this point I’ll have to wait for heaven to find out.

Also you said this and I fully agree and have and will continue to do so:

“Pray about it, if you are a sincere christian you will be enlightened”

 

[BornAgain2010]

I think you may have just committed a Mortal Sin. This has got me all fired up so I’ll try to restrain myself. No promises though.

Firstly, what religion are you exactly? Im kinda confused on that. Your Dad was Catholic but Mom was Lutheran. And you say you were raised Lutheran? So I assume you are a Lutheran. Am I correct in that logic?

Secondly, only those that have been Baptised, and Confirmed (have completed the Confirmation) in the Catholic Church, only they are allowed to recieve. There are other details such as if in state of Mortal Sin youre not allowed to recieve, but thats another thread. In other words, requirements for Eucharist eligibility:

1. Baptised
2. Confirmed (in the Catholic Church)

Thirdly, what makes you think you have the permission from God himself? Im curious as to your reasoning on this. Could you elaborate?

You may not realize it, and Im surprised noone else has mentioned it either. But you committed theft and kidnapping. You went to another’s house, took something that wasnt yours to have (the Eucharist). <-Theft. You also removed a person (yes, the Sacrament is a person) from their house who didnt give consent for you to take them. ← Kidnapping.

I admit I am very anti-Protestant and isolationist when it comes to maintaining my Catholic faith. Im sorry if I sound bashing. But what you did WAS wrong. I would go on but I think I better stop here.

EDIT:

Oh, and you also disrespected your Grandfather by not honoring his beliefs.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Thanks for yours and many other responses. Most were pretty respectful. I never thought about it till the funeral and it got me thinking so much I signed up here so I could hear explanations from Catholics. At this point I won’t take Communion if I go to a Catholic church again but do not believe it is the will of God for Catholics not to let me recieve it.

Fair enough. God bless.

 

[manualman]

Thanks for yours and many other responses. Most were pretty respectful. I never thought about it till the funeral and it got me thinking so much I signed up here so I could hear explanations from Catholics. At this point I won’t take Communion if I go to a Catholic church again but do not believe it is the will of God for Catholics not to let me recieve it.

You’re right that we got pretty cranky. Especially me. You came on strong and I came back worse. Escalation rarely helps much, mea culpa.

Your last sentence displays an attitude of genuine dialogue. You don’t have to think someone is right to respect their convictions when you are a guest in their own house. It’s not a sign of weakness, it’s a sign of strength.

You learn fast. Enjoy your stay here in forums.

 

[Cristiano]

I think you may have just committed a Mortal Sin. This has got me all fired up so I’ll try to restrain myself. No promises though.

Firstly, what religion are you exactly? Im kinda confused on that. Your Dad was Catholic but Mom was Lutheran. And you say you were raised Lutheran? So I assume you are a Lutheran. Am I correct in that logic?

Secondly, only those that have been Baptised, and Confirmed (have completed the Confirmation) in the Catholic Church, only they are allowed to recieve. There are other details such as if in state of Mortal Sin youre not allowed to recieve, but thats another thread. In other words, requirements for Eucharist eligibility:

1. Baptised
2. Confirmed (in the Catholic Church)

Thirdly, what makes you think you have the permission from God himself? Im curious as to your reasoning on this. Could you elaborate?

You may not realize it, and Im surprised noone else has mentioned it either. But you committed theft and kidnapping. You went to another’s house, took something that wasnt yours to have (the Eucharist). <-Theft. You also removed a person (yes, the Sacrament is a person) from their house who didnt give consent for you to take them. ← Kidnapping.

I admit I am very anti-Protestant and isolationist when it comes to maintaining my Catholic faith. Im sorry if I sound bashing. But what you did WAS wrong. I would go on but I think I better stop here.

First of all Catholics do not need to be confirmed to receive the sacrament of the Eucharist. Second I think that you cannot judge the state of his soul (saying that he committed mortal sin). He obviously did something really wrong but does not mean that he met the three criteria for mortal sin, remember that Catholics are held to a higher standard because they are expected to know better. I think that his overall attitude was wrong but that does not mean that we have the authority to say that he damned himself.

 

[Cristiano]

You’re right that we got pretty cranky. Especially me. You came on strong and I came back worse. Escalation rarely helps much, mea culpa.

Your last sentence displays an attitude of genuine dialogue. You don’t have to think someone is right to respect their convictions when you are a guest in their own house. It’s not a sign of weakness, it’s a sign of strength.

You learn fast. Enjoy your stay here in forums.

My apologies to the OP too. I saw arrogance in his writings when probably there was none.

 

[masuwerte]

Catholics wouldn’t want it…It is not the Real Presence of Christ.

If I understand correctly according to Catholic teaching, you can’t be certain of that.

 

[Cristiano]

If I understand correctly according to Catholic teaching, you can’t be certain of that.

What do you mean? Lutheran priests are not ordained by bishops that have apostolic succession.

 

[BornAgain2010]

I think that the OP believes that he has every right to obey only a part of what God wants and to forget the rest because it is not convenient, while the Catholic Church is a nasty institution because she reminds people that we have to obey at all times. I guess that the OP thinks that he has more power than God.

The term is SELF-DEIFICATION. The belief that one is better than God, or that they themselves are God of their own world.

 

[BornAgain2010]

What do you mean? Lutheran priests are not ordained by bishops that have apostolic succession.

Yes thats true. In the eyes of the Catholic Church Lutheran Priests (as well as those of other Protestants denominations), in the eyes of the Catholic Church, they are still seen as laity. Therefore, Catholics shouldnt recieve from them.

 

[Saint_Anonymous]

First, condolences on the loss of your grandfather.

The problem here is that you are applying your understanding of communion to something that is not your communion. It is, in addition to being the body and blood of Christ, a sign that you are in full and visible communion with the Church Christ founded.

You are not in full and visible communion with the Church Christ founded. I could put the “Catholics believe” in front of that to make it sound less harsh, but doing so would undermine the seriousness of what you did. You received the body and blood of Christ in a manner that made a statement that is false. The false statement would be bad enough, but combining it with act of receiving our lord is… troubling.

Your church is not fully united with our church. You don’t think it is. We don’t think it is. So we shouldn’t pretend that it is, especially not during such a serious thing as receiving our Lord.

That’s not to say that Catholics want to deny you communion. We would very much like for you to be able to receive communion with us. But a perquisite for that is being in communion with us. The Eucharist is so much more than a symbol of unity. But it is also that, and to take it without that unity being present is to lie.

Of course, as a non-Catholic, you may not believe any of that. But we would hope that you would show respect for the faiths of your mother and grandfather when you go to their church.

Very well put thank you.

It is sad that Catholics believe it goes against Gods will not to share the body and blood of Christ.

The Catholic Church will also not allow Catholics in mortal sin to receive communion and for good reason my friend:

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 11:27-29[/BIBLEDRB]

Be open to the understanding that the Catholic Church does not allow you to receive communion because they do not want you to sin and because if they did or at least didn’t warn you then they would be an occasion of your sin.

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 18:6[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Erich]

Thanks for yours and many other responses. Most were pretty respectful. I never thought about it till the funeral and it got me thinking so much I signed up here so I could hear explanations from Catholics. At this point I won’t take Communion if I go to a Catholic church again but do not believe it is the will of God for Catholics not to let me recieve it.

This Bible Christian Society newsletter makes some good points. In summary:

Consider 1 Cor 11:18-19: “*In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval.”

*So, there were divisions among the Corinthian congregation. And, these divisions were such that they helped to reveal who had God’s approval. Which means, on the flip side, that there were those among the Corinthian congregation who did not have God’s approval.

Believers in an “invisible church of true believers” tend to also be believers in the notion that there are “essential” and “non-essential” doctrines and as long as we agree on the “essentials,” then we can have union with one another and we’re all saved. Problem is, who gets to decide what is an essential and what is a non-essential doctrine? And, since doctrines come from the Word of God, which part of the Word of God does one actually dare to call “non-essential?”

The notion that that we can be in union with those we have doctrinal disagreements with…that there can be true unity among those with doctrinal differences…those with different versions of what is and is not truth… is a false notion. 1 Cor 11:18-19 shows that divisions among Christians - the Corinthians being written to by Paul were all members of the Church… they were all Christians - cannot simply be ignored by using a contrived theological system which divides doctrines into essential vs. non-essential. Differences among Christians are serious matters that lead to some being approved by God and some not being approved by God.

Did the Apostles teach different doctrines to different people? The answer, of course, is “No.” The Apostles all taught the same doctrines…ALL the same doctrines. After all, Jesus tells us that the Holy Spirit was to guide them into all truth. If they are guided into all truth, then they cannot help but teach identical doctrines…they cannot help but teach the same truths…to all the different peoples they came across. Again, from 1 Cor 11:18-19, it is obvious that there were those among the Corinthians who believed different doctrines. Who taught them these different doctrines, the Apostles? I don’t think so.

Well, if the Apostles didn’t teach different doctrines, then why is it okay for the pastors of today’s thousands upon thousands of Protestant denominations to teach different doctrines one from another? And, if it wasn’t okay for the Corinthians to hold to different beliefs…beliefs that caused division within the Christian congregation…then why is it okay today for Protestants to hold to different beliefs…beliefs that cause division within Christianity?

 

[Denise1957]

The term is SELF-DEIFICATION. The belief that one is better than God, or that they themselves are God of their own world.

In this case, it seems to be more a matter of ignorance and lack of proper explanation, perhaps, about why non-Catholics cannot recieve communion. At least we should give this new person the benefit of the doubt.

I have three non-Catholic family members (two siblings and one brother-in-law) who informed me that they have in the last few years received communion in Catholic churches. They knew they weren’t supposed to. I think it happens more than we think. Each of them has since attended a TLM with me, and I firstly informed them about why they absolutely could not take communion. They agreed that they wouldn’t do so, and they didn’t.

The thinking of the Church on the matter can be something difficult for non-Catholics to comprehend. Catholicism is a whole 'nother ball game from that of the Protestant denominations. The Church as rules, and some of them are non-negotiable.

 

[DianaCC]

When I was younger I fell in love with a man who was married. His wife had a problem with this because she was selfish and arrogant and thought she could dictate who could be intimate with him. In which my response was I do not need her permission I already have permission from him.

 

[masuwerte]

What do you mean? Lutheran priests are not ordained by bishops that have apostolic succession.

Before he became Pope, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote that Catholics, while they must accept transubstantion in the Catholic Mass, need not deny the possiblity of Christ’s presence in the Lutherans’ Lord’s Supper. Sorry that’s a paraphrase and I don’t have a reference for you. The exact quote used to be part of a member’s signature line, maybe it still is.

I would also add that the merciful Lord, seeing the sincere belief of a congregation without true apostolic succession, might choose to bless them with his presence anyway. So, IMHO, you can’t be absolutely certain. But of course you, as a Catholic, should still follow your own rules and not commune with Lutherans or Episcopalians.

 

[masuwerte]

I think you may have just committed a Mortal Sin. This has got me all fired up so I’ll try to restrain myself. No promises though.

Perhaps he didn’t have full knowledge of the gravity of this act, from the Catholic perspective.

Years ago, I received communion at a Catholic Mass, but I did it out of ignorance. My parents, who were recent converts told me it was okay. Also, Catholic priests sometimes send mixed signals by offering communion to non-Catholics - my brother-in-law is a Catholic priest, and he offered me communion at my and my wife’s convalidation.

 

[masuwerte]

Secondly, only those that have been Baptised, and Confirmed (have completed the Confirmation) in the Catholic Church, only they are allowed to recieve.

When I was a child, we practised closed communion in the Episcopal Church, and only confirmed Episcopalians were welcome to receive. I was really shocked, when I learned that Catholics usually receive communion BEFORE CONFIRMATION, around age 7. Shocked, I tell ya. I think I was about 9 at the time.

 

[BernadetteM]

If the OP is a Lutheran, then he does not know too much about his own faith. There are several different Synods within the Lutheran denomination.

Some of the progressive ones seem to allow anyone to receive, however in some even a Lutheran from another Synod may not receive Holy Communion.

If you are a stranger in their church, before you may receive you must identify yourself to the Lutheran minister who I assume ask which Synod you belong to and if you are not part of his, you may not receive.

I have friends who belong to the Missouri Synod and no one except those belonging to their Synod may receive.

Until the past 25 years or so the Episcopal church also had closed communion. This is not only a Catholic belief.

I would never disrespect anothers beliefs. If a Catholic receives communion in a protestant church I believe it is considered a sin, as that is stating that they believe whatever that church teaches on the Eucharist.

It is true that in the western world people seem to do whatever they please with no regard for others, whether it regards religious beliefs or other beliefs.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[Cristiano]

Before he became Pope, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote that Catholics, while they must accept transubstantion in the Catholic Mass, need not deny the possiblity of Christ’s presence in the Lutherans’ Lord’s Supper. Sorry that’s a paraphrase and I don’t have a reference for you. The exact quote used to be part of a member’s signature line, maybe it still is.

I would also add that the merciful Lord, seeing the sincere belief of a congregation without true apostolic succession, might choose to bless them with his presence anyway. So, IMHO, you can’t be absolutely certain. But of course you, as a Catholic, should still follow your own rules and not commune with Lutherans or Episcopalians.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[mark_a]

Yes, if they want it. We don’t exclude other believers in Christ.

So Catholics who don’t believe the pope is the anti-Christ can receive Lutheran communion?

That doesn’t seen like communion to me.