Experience in church eroding my faith

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Anyone else work for a diocese and have a hard time keeping the flame of faith alive in a when it’s also your day to day work? I’m struggling.
 
No, but I did know a priest like that. I mean he took his duties on like a job and then stepped out of them after ‘work’ was over. It can be a thing. I mean I can imagine dealing with the details and behind the scenes stuff that might go on in the diocese probably plays a role in taking some of the mystery out of things. I guess it’s like the saying goes: familiarity breeds contempt. Once something gets too well figured out it just becomes more or less mundane. Sorry about that. I guess I didn’t really give you any sort of advice.

Peace.

-Trident
 
It’s pretty common. Years ago a priest told me, “If you want to lose your faith, work for the Church.” In other words, you have to work harder for your faith.
 
It is helpful to take a few moments out, now and then, to stop and focus on the Lord in His Passion for us.

Also, to make the morning consecration to our Blessed Mother, and to renew it several times during the day, with just a few words.

The Lord will not leave us orphans, no matter what our work circumstances are.

Peace to you on your journey to Him!
 
Just a few weeks ago our visiting priest told of a cure for that…it’s called a vacation. Sounds like you may need one. I would just add, remember, the church you work for is here on earth, the church you belong to is in Heaven! Hope that makes some sense, just got home from a full day teaching in a public school…
 
Don’t mistake your disappointments in Man to be disappointments in God.

“remember, the church you work for is here on earth, the church you belong to is in Heaven”
I really like that statement.
 
I just remembered a poster my husband had when he worked full-time for a parish: Working for the Church doesn’t pay well, but the benefits are out of this world!
 
I have so much to say on this, I could write books on it. I’ve been highly active in my parish, and in my diocese. Done volunteer work in the chancery office, and without getting into the story let’s just say an sudden and terrifying act by a very mean priest who was rectum of the cathedral, at a critical time in my life when I was taking a break from the bishop’s office and went across the parking lot to play “Amazing Grace” on the piano – resulted in triggering me to where I got involuntarily locked up that night and ended up losing my previously lucrative engineering career.

I’ve tried twice to give a brief summary and I can’t. There is just too much to tell to even just hit the highlights. I’ll just try to give a couple sentences to give an idea of the depth of my experiences on this.

One thing that I found hilarious, is one particular guy that treated me and my family like dirt, but then when it was announced that my son was among the seminarians, at the first occasion he walked up to me and tried to suck up. Good god he could have seen me and my family dead and not shed a tear the day before – he once was a close “family friend” until I started asking embarrassing questions about fundraisers and school and parish and even become psychotic and lost my career due in large part to trying to pretend that somehow all of this was not a bunch of BS.

Then at the first seminarian event I went to, he walks up to me and my wife like nothing at all happened in the eight years he actively shunned us; he was a Big Shot by now, doing fundraising for the diocese. He says in this silly little voice, “it must be really to have a son as a seminarian.” I don’t remember the exact word for but it was an emotion I hadn’t considered part of my experience until then. At that point he changed before me. No longer did I see an proud person, successful in the ways of money, and intolerant of the scumbag I became after the onset of my mental illness upon the trigger I mentioned above. Instead I saw a little child, who doesn’t even know the damage he can do with his own power, looking for some significance by trying to be friendly and connect with someone he blatantly disrespected only a week prior. I immediately pitied him, and said, “yeah, I never looked at it that way but yes, it’s very nice.” He seemed happy with my response.

Actually it’s hilarious. There are certain people who treat me just like before, and others who are suddenly fascinated with what I have to say. I did take advantage of that, though.

And if I get going on the parish stuff, I may never quit. Oh yeah, and the stewardship director and the school super sat in adjacent offices, and I visited each of them privately, for an hour. This was back in 2001 before I went nuts – but was IMO part of it. The stewardship director told me an excellent theory, and I said wow that is completely not the way it’s being done at the parish level. Our parish for example just did X, which was completely unrelated to diocesan policy and they and three other parishes got together and made this agreement on how to handle things – the month I missed the council meeting because I was on vacation. How cliche, right? So I talked to the school super and he told me exactly the opposite story of the stewardship guy, confirming that they were doing it wrong. He had no interest in hearing my opinions on whether it conformed so I went back to the stewardship director and told him that not only do the parishes do it wrong, but the guy in the office next to you says exactly the opposite, which is one reason the parishes were doing it wrong. The stewardship guy, after being very cordial all this time, replied tartly, it is our job to establish the policy; it is up to the parishes to implement it. So basically all this guy does is put fancy words on paper that then get sold as amazing and wonderful, but never used.

Things did get better, or my son would not have been a priest. In fact he even said at one point during high school, after my then pastor banned me from parish property except to drop off kids at school and play music for Mass, that once he graduated from high school the church would not get a penny from him. We got a new pastor who embraced me and he was very worldly wise and helped me back to health. And then all of sudden I found out that my son was actually tithing on his professional job, and then a few years later he joined the seminary. I include that story to suggest what a difference a pastor can make.

So yes I have seen some ugly stuff at several levels, but now I’m doing well and I get invited to all the coolest and fanciest ceremonies, with dinner parties, etc. Now I am a “rock star” because of the action of my son, and his repenting of his anger toward the Church on my behalf.

So what to do in order to keep the faith? I will come back to this thread later because I don’t want to just give the negative side without specifics about why it’s OK – and you don’t need a seminarian son to do it, but it does kind of expose the hilarious comedy of people trying to be important by hanging around people they consider important or otherwise connected to importance.

I have to pick up a kid from school now, so I’ll come back. Please don’t see me as being Debbie Downer here; I’m agreeing with you and painting the problem. My faith is the strongest ever now, and the hypocrisy no longer plagues me even though a lot of it is still there. With a new pastor, and now a new bishop I like, things have improved a lot and continue to improve.
 
Just remember not to put anyone on a pedestal or expect anyone to act like a saint. Priests and church workers and volunteers aren’t any different from anyone else and sometimes say and do unbelievable things.
 
Sunbreak said:
Just remember not to put anyone on a pedestal or expect anyone to act like a saint. Priests and church workers and volunteers aren’t any different from anyone else and sometimes say and do unbelievable things.
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Yes, that’s a good thing to keep in mind. Also, they are usually going to do whatever they think their boss wants, or at least what will get them through the day. This can result in placing the institutional structure ahead of the pastoral needs of the people. Maybe a certain amount of that is required; if all Catholic were actually “Christlike” then there is a good chance we would not have a Church today.

This is one way I’ve reconciled in my mind why the Church has done all the famously nasty things it has done is with the story of the “dishonest steward”. I think this is an amazing revelation of Jesus, that sometimes you have to “bend” a few rules. Frankly, Jesus and His friends seemed to do pretty much whatever they wanted to, and the Jesus laid the smack down on anybody who objected and told them they were sinning. (That wouldn’t be like “relativism” now, would it? Like Paul in 1 Cor 9:19-23?) Would we have a Bible if the Church hadn’t taken over everything and killed people and stuff? Too bad she never really let go of the “imperial” mindset, but we have what we have, and start from here making future stories.

I get to thinking about it, and how many people gave their whole lives to the Church and maybe even died for the Church, so that finally when there was a printing press we could disseminate the Bible enough that it can’t be reversed, like putting the toothpaste back into the tube. And now that I’ve gotten into mystical stuff and contemplative prayer and all, like John and Teresa of Avila and Cloud of the Unknowing kind of stuff, I realize that this is where the real journey and self-transformation is really addressed – not in the “crunchy shell” of the Church that is the bishops and parishes. The “chewy center” has been in hiding and protected. So those not in cloisters and monasteries may never have heard of “Transforming Union” or “Divine Union” and in fact I never heard of them until age 42 so how much less would they have known then? They didn’t know about the Dark Night of the Soul, and in fact St. John of the Cross was only promoted a doctor of the church in 1926, so with less than 90 years compared to the more Thomistic and logical arguments and apologetics that have been going on roughly from the time of the Reformation when it became about defining beliefs rather than learning love. That makes me a bit sad that they never got to benefit from these things they gave their lives for, that I may benefit from them now. Pondering that helps cut me down a notch when I get a bit too full of myself. OK a lot too full. :rolleyes:

So did Jesus know all this would happen? He definitely did not know the timeline, but in general He knew there were going to be some things going on and frankly, appointing Peter instead of John as the head of the Church speaks volumes as far as I’m concerned. I’m quite sure that Jesus actually desired Peter to deny Him, rather than be killed with him, lest he lose the rock he needed. So yeah, again with the dishonest servant, you do what you have to do. It could have been like a hypnotic suggestion like a “Derren Brown thing” or something, which I just thought of (as opposed to “psst Peter you need to deny me”) because that would have served the purpose of keeping Peter alive, but teaching Peter one last and glorious lesson in humility.

So now I’d say the Church doesn’t have to kill anybody, but how can I judge her without judging myself? Turns out I do quite a bit of both. So if I am to be in the ‘kingdom’ then personally I have to “Romans 8:28” everything. In other words, no matter what happens and no matter how terrible it is, if I am in the kingdom than I can see how those things can work into benefit for those who believe.
 
Sunbreak said:
Just remember not to put anyone on a pedestal or expect anyone to act like a saint. Priests and church workers and volunteers aren’t any different from anyone else and sometimes say and do unbelievable things.
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This is the key. The saying “the Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints” applies to everyone in it, including the clergy, those employed by the parish/diocese, and the various volunteers.

I have witnessed, at at times been the target of, behavior that would curl your hair. Yet through my parish involvement I have also learned more about charity, compassion, the value of daily prayer, hope, and standing firm in the truth than I ever did before I became active. It’s done wonders for my spiritual life because I refuse to allow the strangeness I see around me to erode my faith. This is absolutely not easy :nope: but I pray daily for the strength to endure it and the serenity to be at peace despite it. I will pray for you as well, OP, and for anyone else in a similar situation. God bless:)
 
stege said:
Anyone else work for a diocese and have a hard time keeping the flame of faith alive in a when it’s also your day to day work? I’m struggling.
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I never worked for any diocese, however I do know what it’s like to feel disheartened, if not outright enraged by the behavior of other fellow catholics.

For instance I joined a women’s bible study and found the women to be very clickish and at times blatantly rude. I also needed a lot of help and support at the time and none of the women offered me sincere support.

Ultimately when I feel this way, I know it’s time to draw closer to Jesus and work on my relationship with Him. When you get closer to God, you care less about what other people are doing and you just worry less overall.

I suggest spending time daily in adoration. The difficulties you are experiencing, can be smoothed out by His graces. Trust me, it works.
 
Sunbreak said:
Just remember not to put anyone on a pedestal or expect anyone to act like a saint. Priests and church workers and volunteers aren’t any different from anyone else and sometimes say and do unbelievable things.
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This is so sad but true. They turn away lots of folks who are lost to the church for years or forever, and their unbelievable behavior should not be tolerated.

There are two Catholic parishes in my small town, I belong to neither but I digress, a tale of two parishes. On the Feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, one parish has eight parishioners in attendance, a mundane homily and a vague recollection of a certain apparition of Mary gets a few comments. The other parish is overflowing, the Blessed Virgin is adorned with flowers, overflowing, multicolored faces sing with multi-languaged voices. Days later on Sunday, at the latter parish, She is still adorned, where She is called Blessed.

Just a paradox I experienced, again, I belong to neither parish.

As to the OP’s comment, “experience in church eroding my faith”, lots of incidents over the course of my life eroded my faith in the church and continue to do so. I’ve gone back to saying I belong to Jesus, when asked what church I belong to. It’s Who was there, always, especially when the church was not.

See icon below, the disciples rebuke the little kids…

Matthew 19:
13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
15 And he laid his hands on them,

The Church has scattered His children.
 
I see a lot of sadness and bitterness in some of the posts here, and it breaks my heart. I’m sorry for what you have gone through at the hands of those who serve the Church. 😦

I will say, however, that the view looks different through the eyes of the Church employee/volunteer. I had no idea what went into running a parish or a diocese until I became involved myself. It can be a frustrating, thankless task, no matter what one’s responsibilities are. Despite our best efforts, there will always be someone who feels slighted, neglected or downright abandoned. They are not always wrong, but they aren’t always right either. (I’m thinking of two parishioners in particular who lament their solitude but reject as insufficient every effort we’ve made to break it.) Many of us are doing the best we can, and there are often circumstances at work beneath the surface that those not in service don’t see—nor should they, if we’re doing our jobs right.

While I agree that despicable behavior should not be tolerated, I would also suggest that sometimes what looks like tolerance of such behavior is part of a long-term effort to change it. From what I’ve seen and experienced, being the change we want to see rarely bears fruit overnight. In order to be part of this effort I had to make the choice to endure hardships, some of which are particularly hurtful and/or never-ending. But what are the options? I can either remain and try to make a difference despite the difficulties, or quit, spare myself the anguish, and give the run of things to those who are creating the problems. I don’t see how the latter is helpful at all.

The Gospel for yesterday’s Mass, St. Luke 6:39-42, is especially striking to me in this moment. When my pastor (who for the better part of two years was the bane of my existence in parish service, but that’s another story) preached on it, he drove home the point that even our adversaries have qualities we ourselves don’t possess. Forgive those who wrong you, and try to see them as God sees them. Embrace your hardships as gifts from the Lord. If He has put difficult people in your life, perhaps there is something He wishes you to learn from them and/or vice-versa.

God bless!
 
UpUpAndAway said:
I see a lot of sadness and bitterness in some of the posts here, and it breaks my heart. I’m sorry for what you have gone through at the hands of those who serve the Church. 😦

I will say, however, that the view looks different through the eyes of the Church employee/volunteer. I had no idea what went into running a parish or a diocese until I became involved myself. It can be a frustrating, thankless task, no matter what one’s responsibilities are. Despite our best efforts, there will always be someone who feels slighted, neglected or downright abandoned. They are not always wrong, but they aren’t always right either. (I’m thinking of two parishioners in particular who lament their solitude but reject as insufficient every effort we’ve made to break it.) Many of us are doing the best we can, and there are often circumstances at work beneath the surface that those not in service don’t see—nor should they, if we’re doing our jobs right.

While I agree that despicable behavior should not be tolerated, I would also suggest that sometimes what looks like tolerance of such behavior is part of a long-term effort to change it. From what I’ve seen and experienced, being the change we want to see rarely bears fruit overnight. In order to be part of this effort I had to make the choice to endure hardships, some of which are particularly hurtful and/or never-ending. But what are the options? I can either remain and try to make a difference despite the difficulties, or quit, spare myself the anguish, and give the run of things to those who are creating the problems. I don’t see how the latter is helpful at all.

The Gospel for yesterday’s Mass, St. Luke 6:39-42, is especially striking to me in this moment. When my pastor (who for the better part of two years was the bane of my existence in parish service, but that’s another story) preached on it, he drove home the point that even our adversaries have qualities we ourselves don’t possess. Forgive those who wrong you, and try to see them as God sees them. Embrace your hardships as gifts from the Lord. If He has put difficult people in your life, perhaps there is something He wishes you to learn from them and/or vice-versa.

God bless!
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This is an inspired and excellent post!

WE are the Church. I need to look at the Lord and His Blessed Mother and allow my Savior to sanctify me.
I must seek to not allow the faults and sins of others drag me down.
 
UpUpAndAway said:
I see a lot of sadness and bitterness in some of the posts here, and it breaks my heart. I’m sorry for what you have gone through at the hands of those who serve the Church. 😦
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Who, exactly DO they serve?

When one leads someone to Christ, you’ve facilitated a soul.
When one leads someone away from Christ, you’ve impeded a soul.

Impeded, synonyms: hindered, obstructed, hampered, held, backed/up, delayed, interfered with, disrupted, retarded, slowed (down), hobbled, crippled; blocked, checked, stopped, scuppered, scuttled, thwarted, frustrated, balked, foiled, derailed, stymied.

antonyms: facilitate

Facilitate: make (an action or process) easy or easier. (Sounds a lot like Pope Francis’ plea for reforms, especially in the annulment process.)

synonyms: make easy/easier, ease, make possible, make smooth/smoother, smooth the way for; enable, assist, help (along), aid, oil the wheels of, expedite, speed up, accelerate, forward, advance, promote, further, encourage, catalyze, be a catalyst for

I pray that Pope Francis lives long enough to see the changes he wants implemented, flip the church upside down and allows the devil’s minions to flea from within it. Lord, have mercy.
 
Casilda said:
I pray that Pope Francis lives long enough to see the changes he wants implemented, flip the church upside down and allows the devil’s minions to flea from within it. Lord, have mercy.
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:amen:
 
The stuff I see isn’t despicable or evil. No one at my diocese I know is impeding souls through direct action.

But there’s a culture of fear. My reversion left me wanting to shout Christ from the mountain tops, but we play the game of being careful, not wanting to offend anyone. Not wanting to upset the donor base or incur bad press.

I pray for courage for my leaders and courage for myself that I one day have the guts to tell them this.
 
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