Experiencing a dark night of the soul.. why do I not feel God

[Future_Prodigy]

I am a new Christian, going on 4 years now, and I fear that my faith has deteriorated to the point of being an intellectual exercise/set of accepted beliefs. All I ever hear from Christians is how they ‘feel’ God’s love/presence. Yet, I have never experienced such a feeling. Due to this I have often been attracted to Buddhism because of its pragmatic approach to alleviating spiritual suffering. I can honestly say I have been for the last 4 years of my life been suffering from a spiritual vacuum, a long dark night of the soul.

At times I feel frustrated with others, because all you ever hear them talk about is their feeling yet I do not have this assurance/feeling. I have never experienced such a feeling and don’t know why. What does this all mean, how does one make sense of this spiritual emptiness. I want to experience the joy and assurance I see in the eyes of many believers but for whatever reason I do not – I don’t believe I ever will, I came to faith through reason… grew in faith, through study… it has always been an intellectual endeavor, never emotional.

 

[keith0718]

I am a new Christian, going on 4 years now, and I fear that my faith has deteriorated to the point of being an intellectual exercise/set of accepted beliefs. All I ever hear from Christians is how they ‘feel’ God’s love/presence. Yet, I have never experienced such a feeling. Due to this I have often been attracted to Buddhism because of its pragmatic approach to alleviating spiritual suffering. I can honestly say I have been for the last 4 years of my life been suffering from a spiritual vacuum, a long dark night of the soul.

At times I feel frustrated with others, because all you ever hear them talk about is their feeling yet I do not have this assurance/feeling. I have never experienced such a feeling and don’t know why. What does this all mean, how does one make sense of this spiritual emptiness. I want to experience the joy and assurance I see in the eyes of many believers but for whatever reason I do not – I don’t believe I ever will, I came to faith through reason… grew in faith, through study… it has always been an intellectual endeavor, never emotional.

My faith is much the same way. I grew up in the charismatic tradition and I thought there was something wrong with me because I wasn’t jumping up and down, living in victory 24/7. This significantly aided in my abandonment of the faith in my mid-twenties. I “regained” my faith through study: Plato, Chesterton, Lewis, Aquinas… I did, however, sense God drawing me in, in a very powerful way…but that quickly passed in a few weeks. I struggle a lot in experiencing God as Father. I tend to relate to him as a Judge and God of the philosophers: First Cause, Prime Mover, etc. One thing that has helped me since becoming Catholic is the Church’s notion that everyone has different graces, different charisms…and different crosses. For some, their cross is a temptation to vanity, or homosexual attraction, for others, it may be a dry spiritual life. I would recommend that you bring it up to God in conversation and ask him to lead you to a healthy resolution.

Another thing that helped me is realizing that we all have different personalities and therefore are going to relate to God differently. Art Bennett’s book, The Temperament God Gave You, did a lot to help me. It made me realize that there’s nothing wrong with me, and, moreover, that’s the way God made me!

Another book I’d recommend is Peter Kreeft’s The God Who Loves You. Kreeft is a philosopher, so he talks about Love and how God is Love in a very reasonable manner…and I find this freeing.

 

[keith0718]

Oh…and since your tempted towards Buddhism, check out The Unexpected Way: On Converting from Buddhism to Catholicism, by Paul Williams who for twenty years practiced and taught Tibetan Buddhism as professor of Indian and Tibetan Philosophy at the University of Bristol, is Co-director of the Centre for Buddhist Studies and the current President of the UK Association for Buddhist Studies.

 

[dmelosi]

I am a new Christian, going on 4 years now, and I fear that my faith has deteriorated to the point of being an intellectual exercise/set of accepted beliefs. All I ever hear from Christians is how they ‘feel’ God’s love/presence. Yet, I have never experienced such a feeling. Due to this I have often been attracted to Buddhism because of its pragmatic approach to alleviating spiritual suffering. I can honestly say I have been for the last 4 years of my life been suffering from a spiritual vacuum, a long dark night of the soul.

At times I feel frustrated with others, because all you ever hear them talk about is their feeling yet I do not have this assurance/feeling. I have never experienced such a feeling and don’t know why. What does this all mean, how does one make sense of this spiritual emptiness. I want to experience the joy and assurance I see in the eyes of many believers but for whatever reason I do not – I don’t believe I ever will, I came to faith through reason… grew in faith, through study… it has always been an intellectual endeavor, never emotional.

I know it doesn’t make it any easier, but many of us feel the way you are at times. Everyone gets caught up in day to day struggles. Especially when things get hard. Sit back and take a look at the big picture. Put together the pieces that made you turn to Christianity.

A couple of thoughts…
How do you make sense of all the chaos? Divide the groups into 3 different moral classes.

1. Godless
2. On the Fence
3. Try to follow Christ’s example (Non Christian religions use their guide.)

With tv, the media making more and more immoral acts acceptable, the people on the fence move towards Godless and try to decay the strong faith of those that strive to follow Christ. (Non Christian religions use their guide.)
So the question is, how do you stay on track, how do you know what is Good and Bad. The selfish test is the litmus test I use. You have

1. The most Selfish (The most selfish act I can think of is to help or teach others to take a life, which includes trying to reason or teach others that their is nothing after this life, to destroy a spiritual or human life)
2. Some times selfish (everyone is in this category, just depends on where we are in our spiritual journey whether we are closer to Godless or to try to follow Christ’s example.
3. The least selfish (Christ is the perfect example, he gave his life to save our souls. What could more selfless than that?)

I thing very few people experience a constant “on fire” feeling. In life anything you want to be good at you work at. The better you want to be at something, the more you concentrate on it, practice it. People put off or aren’t serious about thinking when they leave this life, but it is going to happen to everyone. Why not make finding the way to eternity, the most important thing in your life? The good news is that there is a blueprint out there for us, the teachings of the Catholic faith. As you study the faith, you can make sense out of about anything.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

There is no need to convert to Buddhism. What you’re looking for there, is contained in Catholicism, and always has been. Its called contemplative prayer.

You are not going through a dark night of the soul, as taught by St. John of the Cross. Although a soul in the dark night of the soul, feels a dryness in prayer, their love for Jesus Christ, never falters, but is inflamed. Its why the dark night is so difficult.

However, what you’re going through sounds more like doubt. This can happen when we follow prayer by merely verbalizing words, without a true sense of God’s presence.

I would suggest that you pick up Father Thomas Keating’s book, Open Mind Open Heart, or, you can read it on the web, along with other works by him here; centeringprayer.com/archives.htm
Please no debates over this!

If you have further questions, please PM me.

Meanwhile, continue to turn toward Christ, and ask Him for help.

God Bless
Jim

 

[Morwenna]

I am a new Christian, going on 4 years now, and I fear that my faith has deteriorated to the point of being an intellectual exercise/set of accepted beliefs. All I ever hear from Christians is how they ‘feel’ God’s love/presence. Yet, I have never experienced such a feeling.

I want to experience the joy and assurance I see in the eyes of many believers but for whatever reason I do not – I don’t believe I ever will, I came to faith through reason… grew in faith, through study… it has always been an intellectual endeavor, never emotional.

C.S. Lewis, a former atheist, came to faith in much the same manner that you describe … intellectually, rather than emotionally. In fact, when he finally admitted to himself that he believed, he described himself as “the most reluctant convert in the whole of England.”

I’m adding two excerpts here from his wonderful book Mere Christianity, in the hopes that they will be of help to you:

"Now Faith, in the sense in which I am here using the word, is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted in spite of your changing moods. For moods will change, whatever view your reason takes. I know that by experience. Now that I am a Christian I do have moods in which the whole thing looks very improbable: but when I was an atheist I had moods in which Christianity looked terribly probable. This rebellion of your moods against your real self is going to come anyway. That is why Faith is such a necessary virtue unless you teach your moods ‘where they get off,’ you can never be either a sound Christian or even a sound atheist, but just a creature dithering to and fro, with its beliefs really dependent on the weather and the state of its digestion. Consequently one must train the habit of Faith.

The first step is to recognise the fact that your moods change. The next is to make sure that, if you have once accepted Christianity, then some of its main doctrines shall be deliberately held before your mind for some time every day. That is why daily prayers and religious readings and churchgoing are necessary parts of the Christian life. We have to be continually reminded of what we believe. Neither this belief nor any other will automatically remain alive in the mind. It must be fed. And as a matter of fact, if you examined a hundred people who had lost their faith in Christianity, I wonder how many of them would turn out to have been reasoned out of it by honest argument? Do not most people simply drift away?"

Here’s the second excerpt, on wishing for the feeling of God’s love/presence/comfort:

“Of course, I quite agree that the Christian religion is, in the long run, a thing of unspeakable comfort. But it does not begin in comfort; it begins in the dismay I have been describing, and it is no use at all trying to go on to that comfort without first going through that dismay. In religion, as in war and everything else, comfort is the one thing you cannot get by looking for it. If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end: if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth–only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin with and, in the end, despair. Most of us have got over the pre-war wishful thinking about international politics. It is time we did the same about religion.”

I can’t say enough good things about this book, and if you’ve never read it, I would highly recommend it. It has given me both wonderful comfort and much-needed (spiritual/practical) ‘knocks on the head’

Please know that the darkness you describe is common to many (if not most) Christians at some point along the way, but I believe that it is temporary, not permanent.

I will pray for you, and leave you with a quote (while not from scripture or Church fathers), which has always brought me comfort:

“After Winter, followeth green May” - Chaucer

I will pray that your spiritual Winter will soon end, and that the warm May sunshine of Our Lord will warm your soul.

:console:

 

[johnnydigit]

I am a new Christian, going on 4 years now, and I fear that my faith has deteriorated to the point of being an intellectual exercise/set of accepted beliefs. All I ever hear from Christians is how they ‘feel’ God’s love/presence. Yet, I have never experienced such a feeling. Due to this I have often been attracted to Buddhism because of its pragmatic approach to alleviating spiritual suffering. I can honestly say I have been for the last 4 years of my life been suffering from a spiritual vacuum, a long dark night of the soul.

At times I feel frustrated with others, because all you ever hear them talk about is their feeling yet I do not have this assurance/feeling. I have never experienced such a feeling and don’t know why. What does this all mean, how does one make sense of this spiritual emptiness. I want to experience the joy and assurance I see in the eyes of many believers but for whatever reason I do not – I don’t believe I ever will, I came to faith through reason… grew in faith, through study… it has always been an intellectual endeavor, never emotional.

1. help and serve the poor.
2. fasting. increases humility and intensifies prayer, among other things.
3. get involved in the Church community. are you a young adult? explore young adult groups. bible study groups. go on retreats. conferences.
4. serve on retreats.

do these, especially #1, and you will see the face of God. you’ll see the Bible come to life. and of course, use the Sacraments while doing these often. daily Mass and adoration when possible. constant and consistent prayer. daily Rosary. penance.

the burning fire will consume your soul and the joy will feel like your heart is going to burst. money back guarantee!

 

[Harmony1988]

First and foremost, ‘feeling’ God’s love is rather vague, what exactly are you looking for when you are trying to feel God’s love? Is it a similar feeling to being in love?

God’s love is more than a feeling, I don’t think it is a feeling in the slightest, God’s love is a manifest in works and actions. You want to see and ‘feel’ that love? Look around in your life, and places where you know God’s work is present.

I too know though what you mean to an extent, I’ve come to an understanding a long time ago not to be looking for ‘feelings’ of God’s love, my dark nights vary to yours, but I hope this helps.

 

[johnnydigit]

perhaps,

What benefit, what divine delight, solitude and the silence of the hermitage bring to those who love them, only those who have experienced them can tell.

Here strong men can return into themselves as much as they wish, and abide there; here they can with eager earnestness cultivate the seeds of virtue, and with gladness eat of the fruits of paradise.

Here is acquired that eye, by whose serene gaze the Spouse is wounded with love; that eye, pure and clean, by which God is seen.

Here the solitary is occupied in busy leisure, and at rest in tranquil activity.

Here God rewards his athletes with the longed-for prize: peace that the world does not know, and joy in the Holy Spirit. (St 6,16 - from Bruno’s letter to Raoul)

“Rejoice, therefore, my beloved brothers, over the lot of overflowing happiness that has fallen to you,and for the grace of God that you have received in such abundance. Rejoice that you have succeeded in escaping the countless dangers and shipwrecks of this storm-tossed world, and have reached a quiet corner in the security of a hidden harbor. Many would like to join you, and many there are also who make a considerable effort to do so, but fail in their attempt. What is more, many are shutout even after having attained it, since it was not in the plan of God to give them this grace. ” ST. BRUNO’S LETTER TO HIS CARTHUSIAN SONS

“No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”

joy… indescribable love… a burning fire from within… ecstatic happiness… profound peace… “nirvana”… “self-actualization”… goodness… God.

 

[seekerz]

I took it kind of hard when the good Lord finally broke it to me: faith is not about feelings. And in case you’re wondering, He didn’t whisper in my heart but used a very human priest on EWTN to do it.

I’m not saying that those who describe “feeling God’s presence” are misguided, simply that for me the greatest boost to my faith came when I liberated it from the idea that it must be wedded to some particular type of feelings.

Feelings change, faith remains. God may choose to grace us with feelings of His presence, but regardless of those, faith persists. What faith cannot be divorced from is prayer and action. Fill your life with both of those, stop lamenting the dearth of feelings and who knows - once they cease to be so important to you, you might be graced with them.

Think of it like using a cane. If you see all the people your age walking around with one and that sight convinces you that it’s impossible to get around without one, you may end up spending the rest of your life in a chair. Once you get up and get going, you realize the cane is not a necessity; you get on with your life, but at points where the road becomes steep or rough you may occasionally find a cane useful, you may even use it as a sort of optional accessory. The point is, you realize that normal life is possible and even breathtakingly beautiful without one.

 

[allhers]

…faith is not about feelings…I agree, it isn’t. A good Priest told me that once years ago also, he was right.
For me, it’s all about Jesus, not me at all, doens’t matter how I feel and no matter what, I love HIM and just want to be a better person because of HIM. The poster that told you to get out of yourself and serve others had the right idea.

 

[johnnydigit]

definitely not about feelings, but for those whom God blesses with spiritual consolations or “favors”, it is an extraordinary gift. St. Teresa of Avila talks about them a lot in her book Interior Castle.

unfortunately, many protestants believe you aren’t “saved” unless you are “reborn” with this gift, so everyone else is shunned. on the other hand, many Catholics are on the opposite end of the spectrum and believe that anything of the sort is not genuine and anything “touchy feely” is “protestant” and not true faith.

What faith cannot be divorced from is prayer and action. Fill your life with both of those, stop lamenting the dearth of feelings and who knows - once they cease to be so important to you, you might be graced with them.

probably true. when you want it, you don’t get it, when you get it, you take it for granted. some are blessed, some are given a bigger Cross. they say the bigger Cross is actually a greater love from God so…

i fear the day, or slow transition, of the dreaded Dark Night… but it’s ok, whatever He wills is fine, just gotta persevere… win the good race… “Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master”!

 

[Gizmo]

I am a new Christian, going on 4 years now … I can honestly say I have been for the last 4 years of my life been suffering from a spiritual vacuum, a long dark night of the soul.

I have taken some time in my life to read some of St. John of the Cross, the one who explained what the dark night of the soul is, and I would like to make this observation. The term ‘dark night of the soul’ gets thrown around a lot. It seems like any Christian who is having a bad week or month is experiencing ‘The Dark Night’ when they are really not. Even I misused the term in my earlier days. Let’s face it, suffering stinks sometimes but all of us have to face it. The dark night of the soul is preceded by what is called the dark night of the senses which is a renunciation of worldly things or at least those things which have taken a real hold of your sensitive appetites. The soul must have gone through this first dark night of the senses before it can move on towards the dark night of the soul - which is something that only God decides when the soul will enter into that dark night. So you must ask yourself if you have been through this dark night of the senses. If you have not, it is safe to say that you are not experiencing the dark night of the soul. And anyways, both dark nights are not something that Christians go through because God wants to make them miserable but because God wants to purify them.

You can find St. John of the Cross’s writings online at:
glorifyhisname.com/sys-tmpl/stjohnofthecross/

I would also highly recommend that you find a good priest to talk to about about what you are experiencing. This will give you a chance to talk and put all of what you are experiencing “on the table” as they say and hopefully the priest will see things that can help you to move forward in this situation.

Hope this helps.

 

[Future_Prodigy]

This seems like we are getting techical with theolgoical jargon which misses the entire point - this being that i have never experienced any sense of love, warmth, etc… any feeling whatsoever of God’s presence, or love for me. I have heard many cahtolics tell me, “how do you have faith then with no such reassurance” … so it is not the touchy feely protestants… its everywhere.

 

[seekerz]

Be careful what you ask for. My understanding from Dark Night of the Soul by St John of the Cross is that we are to be wary of desiring manifestations of God that appeal to our sensibilities. If God sends them, accept them. If they don’t come, don’t desire them.

Faith, in it’s purest form, does not require feelings though these may be manifested. Regardless of how many people tell you otherwise, seek not feelings, but God Himself. A genuine spiritual journey cannot be measured by what other people feel.

The very fact that you are attracted to Buddhism, would seem to indicate the spiritual danger that seeking feelings lead to.

 

[Gizmo]

This seems like we are getting techical with theolgoical jargon which misses the entire point - this being that i have never experienced any sense of love, warmth, etc… any feeling whatsoever of God’s presence, or love for me. I have heard many cahtolics tell me, “how do you have faith then with no such reassurance” … so it is not the touchy feely protestants… its everywhere.

Sorry if you felt that I got a little technical. The only reason for my clarification was in no way to bash you, it was out of respect for the many saints who have experienced this ‘Dark Night’ and have given us testimony of its authenticity as something that those of us who are striving to stay on the right path might one day experience. If you knew what the Dark Night was all about you would realize how paradoxical the title of your thread is. As a side note - people who experience the Dark Night experience a real spiritual darkness but they never lose their faith in God. It is as though they feel as if God as abandoned them and left them alone and despite that emptiness that it causes they still love God and desire to be nearer to Him. Your case seems to be the opposite. You say that you have this great emptiness and you are discerning Buddhism so I honestly do not know exactly what to tell you. You should certainly go and talk to a good priest about this. You should pray to God especially - that He show you what is keeping you from being closer to Him. Trust me, give Him time and He will answer you. Do you ever take time out of the day or out of the week to read the Gospels instead of reading theological works? And, something that I have asked myself before: If I were like the rich young man in the Gospel and I asked Jesus if I could follow Him and He said “Sure, but first you have to get rid of this, then come follow me.” The question for me has always been what is the thing in my life that needs to not be there anymore so that I can go and follow our Lord as I should be. For you (or anyone) it could be a number of things (and I don’t need to know either) but it could be some kind of bad habit, or maybe there is a material possession that you have that you like too much, or it could be that you need to go to confession, or have a better prayer life … the list could go on my friend. That is why last time I gave you my clarification and left it at that.

You should seriously check out those links to St. John of the Cross I gave and spend some time with his works. You might end up getting something out of them.

Lastly, what do you mean by reassurance? Could you give me an example?

 

[Future_Prodigy]

reassurance - basically, it boils down to a similar argument against the ontological argument - that being defining God into existence. It is like a intellectual exercise, in that i accept certain dogmas, etc as true but have nothing beyond them to substantiate my association to them. Similar to how i accept certain laws but never ‘feel’ them.

You hear a lot of agnostics battling with theists over issues of faith and one thing they have a hard time explaining away is the ‘religious experience’ … yet i have no such experience. I have set of beliefs/dogmas i accept as truth but no further reasoning for doing so. I have never felt any loving presence to know i am correct and not defining a concept into existence, etc.

 

[Gizmo]

reassurance - basically, it boils down to a similar argument against the ontological argument - that being defining God into existence. It is like a intellectual exercise, in that i accept certain dogmas, etc as true but have nothing beyond them to substantiate my association to them. Similar to how i accept certain laws but never ‘feel’ them.

You hear a lot of agnostics battling with theists over issues of faith and one thing they have a hard time explaining away is the ‘religious experience’ … yet i have no such experience. I have set of beliefs/dogmas i accept as truth but no further reasoning for doing so. I have never felt any loving presence to know i am correct and not defining a concept into existence, etc.

Prodigy, I don’t know if I am quite sure where you are coming from in regards to reassurance or religious experience. Do you mean by religious experience as someone who gets warm fuzzies when they go to religious functions? Or is this the same as inward conversion? I don’t understand the acceptance of laws you spoke of above and the feeling of them. I accept laws and I don’t have feelings for them either - so I am not sure where you were taking that analogy.

Having faith is something altogether different from having feelings.

In the previous post, by an example, I meant give me an example of when someone experiences this form of reassurance or religious experience.

The Catechism says this about faith: #164 Now, however, “we walk by faith, not by sight”; we perceive God as “in a mirror, dimly” and only “in part”. Even though enlightened by him in whom it believes, faith is often lived in darkness and can be put to the test. The world we live in often seems very far from the one promised us by faith. Our experiences of evil and suffering, injustice and death, seem to contradict the Good News; they can shake our faith and become a temptation against it.

 

[Future_Prodigy]

I dont really know who to verbalize my words… i thought i was being rather articulate. I thought this was a common notion? You hear it everywhere in the catholic pews and especially in the evangelical circles about ‘knowing’ God. Experiencing his Love for you, that he cares, He’s there for you , etc… i can’t really describe it because ive never experience any spiritual consolations or ‘emotions’… i am just trying to word what they seem to be describing. When you hear them talk its like they are talking about a loved boyfriend/girlfriend, and i have a hard time relating to God that way. Like an earlier poster said, I can relate to him as the philosophers did… not as I would to my loving mom or girlfriend.

 

[TOP]

You don’t have to answer me, but ask yourself this. Do you have a dad? How is your relationship with your dad? Maybe that will give you some insight about your relationship with the Lord. Sorry if this seems way out in left field. Just a hunch. Tim