Experiencing the marital embrace as it should be

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1inICXC

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For those of you who: are married, are on board with the teaching of ToB/ Catholic teaching on sexuality AND whose spouses are like-minded

In light of our culture and our deformation in regards to sexual ethics and male-female relationships I would like to have an idea how possible is it for us to reach the marital ideal by asking these 2 questions
  1. Have you ever been able to truly experience the marital union as it should be (an embrace that mirrors the Love of the Trinity and that truly gives us a foretaste of Heaven?)
  2. is it the norm in your conjugal love or is there a constant struggle with the world’s warped view of sex?
My poll may be oversimplifying things so I do appreciate any additional (name removed by moderator)ut
 
A bit of a strange question if you ask me. Do I experience sex as some kind of mystical event where I can feel the presence of God? Well, no not really. It’s certainly a bonding experience with my wife and sometimes it’s super-romantic and loving and other times it’s… well… just fun. And sometimes exhausting-but-in-a-great-way fun.

But it’s always oriented towards life and I suppose that being oriented towards cooperating with God in creating new life is about as mystical as one can get. Truth be told I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. I find that the Eucharist is a far better way for me to find unification with our Lord.
 
1inICXC said:
For those of you who: are married, are on board with the teaching of ToB/ Catholic teaching on sexuality AND whose spouses are like-minded

In light of our culture and our deformation in regards to sexual ethics and male-female relationships I would like to have an idea how possible is it for us to reach the marital ideal by asking these 2 questions
  1. Have you ever been able to truly experience the marital union as it should be (an embrace that mirrors the Love of the Trinity and that truly gives us a foretaste of Heaven?)
  2. is it the norm in your conjugal love or is there a constant struggle with the world’s warped view of sex?
My poll may be oversimplifying things so I do appreciate any additional (name removed by moderator)ut
Click to expand...
Tough questions!!!
I think #1 is tough to answer… since it’s hard to truly grasp the Love of the Trinity and what a true foretaste of Heaven without having experience of it… know what I mean? :o
#2 is tough too… I mean, we’re all exposed to what’s out there in the world, I’m not sure what I can remove from my unconscious knowledge that already exists.

Also, I really have no other experience than following the teachings of the faith regarding marital relations… so it’s hard to make a fair comparison.

It is wonderful - I do know that! 🙂
It’s something we both look forward to - all the time. Not that we’re always on a high libido (of course not!), but that it’s something that truly unites us and we have positive thoughts and feelings about it, regardless of our current libido at any moment.
It’s something we make time for.
And it’s something we truly sacrifice when we know it’s not the right timing.
 
I know it’s hard to assess just how close you are to “as it should be”
For us, there was definitely one time that was over and beyond anything we have ever experienced so we kind if hold that as a, let’s say “standard”.
We also lived unchastely the first years of our relationship so we have our past “habits” creep up on us.

I guess I just feel so spiritually elated at times while other times it’s mostly physical and emotional satisfaction (which is great, but falls short of those other exeriences) and it leaves me wondering how well can we distance ourselves from the pornographic sex-view.
I believe it was St. Augustine who saidthat every marital union results at least in a venial sin because it is- more or less - impossible for us not to lust. I’m wondering, to what extent this is true.
 
1inICXC said:
I believe it was St. Augustine who said that every marital union results at least in a venial sin because it is- more or less - impossible for us not to lust. I’m wondering, to what extent this is true.
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That is absolutely absurd. What a crock.

So Augustine thought the only way for the human race to exist, is a result of union of man and woman, which is always sinful?

That’s so wrong its infuriating. :mad:

If there wasn’t a strong desire and a want for sex people wouldn’t do it. The desire is powerful and if used incorrectly can cause a great deal of harm which is why it is supposed to be confined to the bounds of matrimony. Part of that is as an outlet for those feelings!

If Augustine truly said that, then you need to check the source: the man was celibate was he not?
 
The root of the problem is our society’s distorted view of what sex is. Even the word “sex” is somewhat emotionless and technical. I believe it is impossible to always respect one’s spouse as God intended due to our fallen nature but I do believe that every sexual encounter should be directed towards expressing a deep love and unification as far as is humanly possible - we are to mirror the Trinity’s unity as far as we are able, not duplicate it.

That is why modesty in dress (dressing in a conservative but attractive way) and waiting for marriage to have sex is so fundamental because it directs our thoughts towards a higher and superior state rather than degrading us so that we view sex as simply fun and physical.

But yes it is a constant struggle and always will be due to the objectifying our world makes of each other’s bodies, but the above mentioned help. One’s wedding night is often the closest people get to this “state” because the wait has allowed you to see your partner as sacred and holy. Try and remember that night to get your head right - Sex is meant to be a gift, mistreating it may mean excitement for now, but deep dissatisfaction in the long run
 
TOB adherent, but also victim of the annulment industry as well…so if something seemed “mystical”, was it really, because of the purported invalidity of said marriage…hmmm…100 % against adultery, but that said, I think one has to be careful with feelings, per se. Loving, anyone, is wanting THEM to be happy, right now, all us here, are LOVING one another, because we hope each one of us gets to Heaven…ULTIMATE, ETERNAL HAPPINESS! Still, that’s not a gooey, chocolate-chip cookie feeling, but often is hard, selfless work for someone else’s benefit. I’ve had acquaintances percieve “good” adultery (sic) as something spiritual, so chasing that high/feeling can be a detriment as well. Just some things to ponder before a good nap! 😊:sleep::flowers:
 
katholikos12 said:
That is absolutely absurd. What a crock.

So Augustine thought the only way for the human race to exist, is a result of union of man and woman, which is always sinful?

That’s so wrong its infuriating. :mad:

If there wasn’t a strong desire and a want for sex people wouldn’t do it. The desire is powerful and if used incorrectly can cause a great deal of harm which is why it is supposed to be confined to the bounds of matrimony. Part of that is as an outlet for those feelings!

If Augustine truly said that, then you need to check the source: the man was celibate was he not?
Click to expand...
Don’t worry, of course the Church doesn’t teach anything like that, that was Augustines personal opinion, which, honestly, I am convinced comes from the fact that he personally led a very unchaste life. His personal view of sexuality was twisted by his own problem with lust and so came to the conclusion that everyone’s sexuality was twisted by lust the exact same way. Its understandable why he would think that, but it isn’t anywhere close to being true. 🙂
 
The answer is: Yes.

Experiencing the marital embrace in this manner has several prerequisites, IMHO. The couple must truly love each other, not fearing pregnancy in any way (no contraception or NFP), and both must be in the mood.
 
katholikos12 said:
That is absolutely absurd. What a crock.

So Augustine thought the only way for the human race to exist, is a result of union of man and woman, which is always sinful?

That’s so wrong its infuriating. :mad:

If there wasn’t a strong desire and a want for sex people wouldn’t do it. The desire is powerful and if used incorrectly can cause a great deal of harm which is why it is supposed to be confined to the bounds of matrimony. Part of that is as an outlet for those feelings!

If Augustine truly said that, then you need to check the source: the man was celibate was he not?
Click to expand...
I thought St. Augustine was the first to write about marriage as a sacrament?
 
thewanderer said:
Don’t worry, of course the Church doesn’t teach anything like that, that was Augustines personal opinion, which, honestly, I am convinced comes from the fact that he personally led a very unchaste life. His personal view of sexuality was twisted by his own problem with lust and so came to the conclusion that everyone’s sexuality was twisted by lust the exact same way. Its understandable why he would think that, but it isn’t anywhere close to being true. 🙂
Click to expand...
I was just about to say, if he was not celibate then its likely that he struggled with lust.
 
What is the definition of ‘as it should be’? Forgive my ignorance, as we are just gettingthings on the right track in the past few months…😊

Also, how is one time rated better than another? If both work for each other and it is open to life what makes one time more ideal than the rest?

I hate to post this embarassing reply… You would think after 7 years and 4 kids we would know exactly what we are doing, but unfortunately that isn’t the case( thanks to a butthole for a husband)…😊🤷😦

If there is something more to aspire to between the two of us, then I want to know what it is!!
 
I am going to be married in a couple of months,so I do not know if it is proper for me to respond on this thread, but here are my concerns. It seems that if 2 people speak on marriage and the marital embrace, there seems to be 3 opinions.
Just on this thread one person makes it mystical, another states that it is venial sin and another seems to think NFP should not be used.
Others have told me that to be open to life is just not using contraception and withdrawal and other things are OK. Some say this, and others say that…I think their is an air of misinformation out there…
 
katholikos12 said:
That is absolutely absurd. What a crock.

So Augustine thought the only way for the human race to exist, is a result of union of man and woman, which is always sinful?

That’s so wrong its infuriating. :mad:

If there wasn’t a strong desire and a want for sex people wouldn’t do it. The desire is powerful and if used incorrectly can cause a great deal of harm which is why it is supposed to be confined to the bounds of matrimony. Part of that is as an outlet for those feelings!

If Augustine truly said that, then you need to check the source: the man was celibate was he not?
Click to expand...
I think its important to clear up…
I am pretty sure St. Augustine did not hold the view that sex is a sin…actually almost 100% certain.

Second, that opinion was rejected by the Church…as it was held by some but St. Thomas specifically rejects this opinion multiple times in his writings and of course the Church teaches quite the contrary (so does St. Thomas who said that sex could be meritorious /virtuous)

Third, St. Augustine did have a “harsh” attitude with lust and sex in general, it was less positive than something that JP2 would say. Still, I think we have to understand no Saint is perfect or even always right. St. Augustine probably had some of these views because he was a product of his time and because of his manichean background.
Anyway, this is a long but I think good read, it clears his name and I think justifies some things: churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/augustine.htm
 
TheWarriorMonk said:
The answer is: Yes.

Experiencing the marital embrace in this manner has several prerequisites, IMHO. The couple must truly love each other, not fearing pregnancy in any way (no contraception or NFP), and both must be in the mood.
Click to expand...
No NFP is incorrect and contrary to Church teaching.
NFP is fine as long as it is by mutual consent and for serious justified reasons. Of course this is a couple’s decision and what is best for one couple/family is not best for another.
 
katholikos12 said:
That is absolutely absurd. What a crock.

So Augustine thought the only way for the human race to exist, is a result of union of man and woman, which is always sinful?

That’s so wrong its infuriating. :mad:

If there wasn’t a strong desire and a want for sex people wouldn’t do it. The desire is powerful and if used incorrectly can cause a great deal of harm which is why it is supposed to be confined to the bounds of matrimony. Part of that is as an outlet for those feelings!

If Augustine truly said that, then you need to check the source: the man was celibate was he not?
Click to expand...
St Augustine was such a sinner in this area that it seems that when he repented, he threw the baby out with the bathwater.😉 Seriously, I think it was his own guilt over his past that made him make such a statement. The Church does not teach this. Not everything written by the Saints is infallible or even right. They have been in error before.
 
I checked “Never,” which should not surprise anyone who is familiar with my history.

I would have loved to experience the marital embrace as it should be (“holy sex” I think Chris West calls it). Unfortunately I never had a chance, having been unchaste from an early age.

😦

However, that being said, we are doing better than we used to. I think we may have come close when we were trying to conceive and then when I was pregnant the first time and I found out what it was like to have sexual relations without artificial birth control. Wowzer! :blushing::extrahappy::coolinoff:

Great poll.
 
I am not familiar with your history RJ, I just see you as a person to be looked up to and admired. Your sidewalk hobby is truly remarkable and your responses are very intilligent.
What would you do differently if you could go back?
 
Ruthcloud said:
I am not familiar with your history RJ, I just see you as a person to be looked up to and admired. Your sidewalk hobby is truly remarkable and your responses are very intilligent.
What would you do differently if you could go back?
Click to expand...
Oh dear, Ruth, just about everything! 😊 But you see, I had no anchor after the age of 10 when my devout Catholic convert mother died. Daddy was just not equipped to raise 2 daughters ages 13 and 10. We were morally adrift and we both looked for what we thought was love as the song says, “in all the wrong places.”

😦

It’s a long and tiresome saga, so I won’t repeat it all. I will find out someday what God wanted from me, I hope I have done a bit of my purpose.
 
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