Expert wants to treat religious fanaticism as mental illness

[njlisa]

I was appalled to find an article in which Oxford University researcher and author Kathleen Taylor says that certain religious beliefs should be classified as mental illness. Although she focuses on radical ideas, cults, and fanaticism, I worry about the next step in this sort of thinking.

In response to a question about the future of neuroscience, Taylor said that “One of the surprises may be to see people with certain beliefs as people who can be treated,” The Times of London notes.

huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/kathleen-taylor-religious-fundamentalism-mental-illness_n_3365896.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I think believers in all faiths should be concerned about these ideas. Catholics need to speak out. What are your thoughts on this issue?

 

[Robert_Sock]

I was appalled to find an article in which Oxford University researcher and author Kathleen Taylor says that certain religious beliefs should be classified as mental illness. Although she focuses on radical ideas, cults, and fanaticism, I worry about the next step in this sort of thinking.

In response to a question about the future of neuroscience, Taylor said that “One of the surprises may be to see people with certain beliefs as people who can be treated,” The Times of London notes.

huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/kathleen-taylor-religious-fundamentalism-mental-illness_n_3365896.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I think believers in all faiths should be concerned about these ideas. Catholics need to speak out. What are your thoughts on this issue?

There has alway been a fine line between religious experience and psychosis. That’s why it’s very important that religious people choose their psychologist and psychiatrist very carefully. But the article seems to be focusing on something else altogether, and may very well be warranted. Religious fanatics, like those in Waco, TX, are indeed in need of therapy. That’s my opinion as a psychologist and a Catholic.

 

[J_Peterson]

“Someone who has for example become radicalised to a cult ideology – we might stop seeing that as a personal choice that they have chosen as a result of pure free will and may start treating it as some kind of mental disturbance," Taylor said. “In many ways it could be a very positive thing because there are no doubt beliefs in our society that do a heck of a lot of damage."

How on earth can a atheistic neuroscientist believe in “pure free will”. Materialism and libertarian free will are not compatable.

I’m assuming she’s an atheist anyway but I could be wrong.

 

[njlisa]

There has alway been a fine line between religious experience and psychosis. That’s why it’s very important that religious people choose their psychologist and psychiatrist very carefully. But the article seems to be focusing on something else altogether, and may very well be warranted. Religious fanatics, like those in Waco, TX, are indeed in need of therapy. That’s my opinion as a psychologist and a Catholic.

What do you think of Catholics who enter religious orders and show abject obedience to their superiors – especially the super strict orders that don’t allow any contact with the outside world? Some even wear the cilice and use the discipline. Are they fanatics? Do they need therapy? Or are they OK because they are under the umbrella of the Catholic Church? What about Opus Dei members? Do they need therapy or deprogramming?

Who draws the line and where?

 

[TK421]

I was appalled to find an article in which Oxford University researcher and author Kathleen Taylor says that certain religious beliefs should be classified as mental illness. Although she focuses on radical ideas, cults, and fanaticism, I worry about the next step in this sort of thinking.

In response to a question about the future of neuroscience, Taylor said that “One of the surprises may be to see people with certain beliefs as people who can be treated,” The Times of London notes.

huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/kathleen-taylor-religious-fundamentalism-mental-illness_n_3365896.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I think believers in all faiths should be concerned about these ideas. Catholics need to speak out. What are your thoughts on this issue?

My thoughts are that this is old news. Early 20th century Chinese and Soviets already made the same conclusions, excepts they applied it to the entire population (the Soviet Union is dead and China has greatly moderated this attitude)

The person might incidentally have a point; religious fanatics such as suicide bombers are probably likely candidates to be mentally ill, but yes, I wouldn’t be surprised if they wanted to twist this for their own ends.

 

[Robert_Sock]

What do you think of Catholics who enter religious orders and show abject obedience to their superiors – especially the super strict orders that don’t allow any contact with the outside world? Some even wear the cilice and use the discipline. Are they fanatics? Do they need therapy? Or are they OK because they are under the umbrella of the Catholic Church? What about Opus Dei members? Do they need therapy or deprogramming?

Who draws the line and where?

No, I do not in any way consider such religious individuals to be fanatics, and I do not think that Kathleen Taylor ever meant to include them in her proposal. If it would become a disorder, certain criteria would need to be met, like the condition causing the patient severe distress. I also did not gather from reading the article that such patients should in any way be forced into treatment, except those that are an immediate threat to themselves or others, this would include those involved in Waco, TX.

 

[ellzeena]

I was appalled to find an article in which Oxford University researcher and author Kathleen Taylor says that certain religious beliefs should be classified as mental illness. Although she focuses on radical ideas, cults, and fanaticism, I worry about the next step in this sort of thinking.

In response to a question about the future of neuroscience, Taylor said that “One of the surprises may be to see people with certain beliefs as people who can be treated,” The Times of London notes.

huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/kathleen-taylor-religious-fundamentalism-mental-illness_n_3365896.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I think believers in all faiths should be concerned about these ideas. Catholics need to speak out. What are your thoughts on this issue?

People who refuse medical treatment to their young children (as was reported on CNN.com today regarding the death of a baby due to pneumonia) have a problem. This is sort of a cult mentality. After all, God has given us the ability to fight certain diseases and allowing anyone to die unnecessarily is against His law.

What you may not realize, average reader, is that many quite serious mental illnesses seem to revolve around “religion” or certain facets thereof. I gather most of you have never been in a lock down psychiatric ward: I have, four times with my daughter (schizo-affective/rapid cycling bipolar) and once for myself (three days following her suicide). There appears to be a very strong correlation between “demons” and satanic activity with seriously aberrant thought processes commonly found in the most serious mental illnesses; and, while in the psych ward myself (where I voluntarily went to protect myself), I encountered what would have been called a “jesus freak” forty years ago: schizophrenic who had found comfort in the Lord. So it works both ways.

Science appears to detest religion and faith. Fortunately, they are losing the battle, because the cutting edge of science is now (much to its horror) just about proving the existence of God (a force outside of time/space, a universal consciousness). Remember that psychiatry knows absolutely nothing: I tell you this from the mouth of a world famous psychiatrist whom I consulted several times in the past two years. They don’t know what mental illness IS; they don’t know what causes it; they don’t know why the drugs they use WORK (or don’t work, or work for a time then stop working). The closest they’ve come so far is PET scans of brains of people on varying regimens of medication to get as close to “normal” functioning as possible. As for DNA research? I approached the HEAD of Harvard University Genome project regarding my daughter’s baby teeth: "can you do a DNA assay and tell me what you see is “wrong”? His answer? We are 100 years from being able to do that, if we can ever do it at all.

You cannot take your truth from the opinions of so-called experts in consciousness because there really IS no such thing: no one understands consciousness, they are just trying to understand it and conjuring (important word) theories to explain it. Bottom line: the brain will never be understood, not by us, because there is more to it than just physical matter and chemical interactions and science will (most likely) never (fully, although there are those who DO right now) acknowledge that.

Any TRUE “fanaticism” (flying planes into skyscrapers if you believe that scenario) can be the result of many things, the greatest of which is brainwashing/conditioning, from very early childhood. If you teach a child a certain thing and if the society in which the child lives upholds that thing, whether or not it is reasonable or in any way possibly attributed to the true God, means nothing. That child is now a believer and will behave as such and that does not make him mentally ill. On the other hand, if a child raised in a “normal” home with a love for the true Christ develops a bizarre delusion and begins to act upon it, that is mental illness. It’s a case by case situation. I wouldn’t look to psychiatry for any magical answers. My experience: they’re as in the dark as the rest of us, and some of them, even worse, because they are atheists.

 

[njlisa]

People who refuse medical treatment to their young children (as was reported on CNN.com today regarding the death of a baby due to pneumonia) have a problem. This is sort of a cult mentality. After all, God has given us the ability to fight certain diseases and allowing anyone to die unnecessarily is against His law.

What you may not realize, average reader, is that many quite serious mental illnesses seem to revolve around “religion” or certain facets thereof. I gather most of you have never been in a lock down psychiatric ward: I have, four times with my daughter (schizo-affective/rapid cycling bipolar) and once for myself (three days following her suicide). There appears to be a very strong correlation between “demons” and satanic activity with seriously aberrant thought processes commonly found in the most serious mental illnesses; and, while in the psych ward myself (where I voluntarily went to protect myself), I encountered what would have been called a “jesus freak” forty years ago: schizophrenic who had found comfort in the Lord. So it works both ways.

Science appears to detest religion and faith. Fortunately, they are losing the battle, because the cutting edge of science is now (much to its horror) just about proving the existence of God (a force outside of time/space, a universal consciousness). Remember that psychiatry knows absolutely nothing: I tell you this from the mouth of a world famous psychiatrist whom I consulted several times in the past two years. They don’t know what mental illness IS; they don’t know what causes it; they don’t know why the drugs they use WORK (or don’t work, or work for a time then stop working). The closest they’ve come so far is PET scans of brains of people on varying regimens of medication to get as close to “normal” functioning as possible. As for DNA research? I approached the HEAD of Harvard University Genome project regarding my daughter’s baby teeth: "can you do a DNA assay and tell me what you see is “wrong”? His answer? We are 100 years from being able to do that, if we can ever do it at all.

You cannot take your truth from the opinions of so-called experts in consciousness because there really IS no such thing: no one understands consciousness, they are just trying to understand it and conjuring (important word) theories to explain it. Bottom line: the brain will never be understood, not by us, because there is more to it than just physical matter and chemical interactions and science will (most likely) never (fully, although there are those who DO right now) acknowledge that.

Any TRUE “fanaticism” (flying planes into skyscrapers if you believe that scenario) can be the result of many things, the greatest of which is brainwashing/conditioning, from very early childhood. If you teach a child a certain thing and if the society in which the child lives upholds that thing, whether or not it is reasonable or in any way possibly attributed to the true God, means nothing. That child is now a believer and will behave as such and that does not make him mentally ill. On the other hand, if a child raised in a “normal” home with a love for the true Christ develops a bizarre delusion and begins to act upon it, that is mental illness. It’s a case by case situation. I wouldn’t look to psychiatry for any magical answers. My experience: they’re as in the dark as the rest of us, and some of them, even worse, because they are atheists.

This post is fascinating. And I’m sorry for the loss of your daughter. This not-so-average reader is well aware of religious delusions suffered by the mentally ill. I actually dealt with a schizophrenic woman with OCD in a Bible study class I attended who saw demons all the time. But her illness has already been diagnosed. I’m concerned about whose religious ideology gets targeted and for what reason. Once you start going after the FLDS and other “cults,” where do you draw the line? What religious belief is normal, and what is fanatical? And do you hand these decisions to the mental health community, with its ever-morphing Diagnostic Statistical Manual?

 

[mathematoons]

Mark my words, as the secularists take over America, those of us with any kind of faith will be declared legally insane.

 

[ellzeena]

This post is fascinating. And I’m sorry for the loss of your daughter. This not-so-average reader is well aware of religious delusions suffered by the mentally ill. I actually dealt with a schizophrenic woman with OCD in a Bible study class I attended who saw demons all the time. But her illness has already been diagnosed. I’m concerned about whose religious ideology gets targeted and for what reason. Once you start going after the FLDS and other “cults,” where do you draw the line? What religious belief is normal, and what is fanatical? And do you hand these decisions to the mental health community, with its ever-morphing Diagnostic Statistical Manual?

HECK NO. You cannot allow so-called mental health professionals (apologies to those among you who are such) “experts” in all aspects of behavior and/or brain physiology, to control anything so far as I can tell. I have met more than my fair share of psychiatrists since my daughter’s early years and many, many therapists. All but three or four therapists were idiots and all but three psychiatrists were idiots. The “god” complex affects some of these people. My family Dr.'s son is now a professor in the field of human consciousness, we often discuss his son’s work. They know less than nothing and, alarmingly, think or appear to know much more. I don’t think state and religion mix but we all know that isn’t true: state appears ready, willing, able to interfere with religion (not vice versa, not any more). I guess a “cult” is an extreme group of people who suffer from a collective delusion based upon individual mental and emotional/experiential problems. Any extreme behavior is questionable but that doesn’t give anyone, especially psychiatry, the right to label them as ill, nor does it endow any government the right to legislate against such so long as no laws are broken. It’s fairly obvious that a great many scientists can’t see the noses on their own faces when it comes to God. It is the way the world is turning, much to my horror.

 

[Reep]

Taylor said that “One of the surprises may be to see people with certain beliefs as people who can be treated,”

Another delightful surprise would be to find that arrogant Oxford researchers could be treated for bigotry.

 

[njlisa]

Another delightful surprise would be to find that arrogant Oxford researchers could be treated for bigotry.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

This probably should concern more people than just those who are religious. The idea that experts would consider treating anyone for having certain beliefs is rather scary.

 

[Robert_Sock]

This probably should concern more people than just those who are religious. The idea that experts would consider treating anyone for having certain beliefs is rather scary.

Paranoia is often central to schizophrenia, and these types of beliefs have been treated as a part of psychosis for a long time. What would you propose psychologists and psychiatrists do with these abnormal believes? Should they treat them as being normal?

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Paranoia is often central to schizophrenia, and these types of beliefs have been treated as a part of psychosis for a long time. What would you propose psychologists and psychiatrists do with these abnormal believes? Should they treat them as being normal?

I don’t know. I’m assuming they don’t treat paranoia simply because it’s abnormal, but rather because it’s associated with schizophrenia?

 

[Robert_Sock]

I don’t know. I’m assuming they don’t treat paranoia simply because it’s abnormal, but rather because it’s associated with schizophrenia?

“Schizophrenia” is an umbrella term which “paranoia” fits under; It’s the abnormal beliefs that are really being treated. The same is true for obsessive-compulsive beliefs, such as washing one’s hands repeatedly for the irrational belief that you will get contaminated by germs. Again, the focus of the psychotherapy is on the beliefs themselves.

 

[matt1985]

I support this idea. When children are denied blood transfusions, basic medical care and end up dead in the name of religion, we see a form of insanity. The idea that people can blow them selves up and go to heaven afterwards is really a mental illness when you think of it. Why would God want to see a person die because of a fanatical interpretation of a sacred text?

I think that Catholics have been spoiled by living in a mainstream religion. Some religions do call for people to be hurt in the name of God, and I think people who are drawn to these teachings are insane in the strictest sense of the word. There probably are many personality disorders than one could find by interviewing the prisoners at gitmo.

 

[livingwordunity]

Mark my words, as the secularists take over America, those of us with any kind of faith will be declared legally insane.

“and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear testimony before them and the Gentiles. When they deliver you up, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say; for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death; and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.” - Matthew 10:18-22

 

[Joy2day]

They used to say that homosexuality was a mental illness; they have removed it now cause the numbers are against them. If you are following the protocol of the religion then they cant really say you’re mad. Its only when the numbers dwindle & you find yourself in the minority, that the ‘experts’ have the opportunity to say you’re nuts. Basically lets hope that the 'mental illness weapon doesnt become a form of cloning and population control.

 

[livingwordunity]

This is an article that Catholics and other Christians can keep in our back pocket for just such occasions as this:

California Man Sets Himself, American Flag, Christmas Tree on Fire to Protest Religious Names

Published December 23, 2006
Associated Press

A man used flammable liquid to light himself on fire, apparently to protest a San Joaquin Valley school district’s decision to change the names of winter and spring breaks to Christmas and Easter vacation.

The man, who was not immediately identified, on Friday also set fire to a Christmas tree, an American flag and a revolutionary flag replica, said Fire Captain Garth Milam.

Seeing the flames, Sheriff’s Deputy Lance Ferguson grabbed a fire extinguisher and ran to the man. Read more

As a side note, I originally found this story on Yahoo News back in December of 2006 when it happened. But Yahoo deleted it (and apparently so did everyone else except Fox News) most likely because this story doesn’t fit with the secularist mainstream media’s narrative of calling us Christians the crazy unintelligent ones.