Explain like I am a catechumen: Justification

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thenobes said:
LatinRight,

I can agree with you up to the point of your citation of the “Joint Declaration”. But that declaration is contradicted by canon 32 of Trent regarding justification.

Canon 32.
If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified, by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit an increase of grace, eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself and also an increase of glory, let him be anathema.

Putting together the bolded words, we have:

If anyone say that the one justified, by the good works that he performs by the grace of God does not truly merit the attainment of eternal life let him be anathema

So we do indeed gain merit, real merit, by works done while justified. In fact we merit eternal life.

To deny this knowingly is to place oneself outside the Catholic Church.

The Declaration you cite has itself no doctrinal magisterial authority.

peace,
steve
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**Blessings Steve,

THE WAY AS FOLLOWS – God saves us in three stages.
  1. FIRST STAGE OF OUR SALVATION
As God’s children/His elect in this first stage of our salvation at our baptism we have

received 100 % legal right/eligibility to go to heaven as God’s free gift. Which is God’s gift

of eternal life. – Rom.6:23.

Our 100 % legal right/eligibility to go to heaven (our eternal life) is irrevocable. – Christ

merited for us in full on the cross.
  1. SECOND STAGE OF OUR SALVATION
In the second stage of our salvation (from baptism until we die) we have a chance to put

as much supernatural work/merit under our belts as we can.

For example Phil.2:12-15; We work out our salvation, …

Which is in reality, we working out the benefits of our salvation.

In this stage of our salvation we work as ambassadors of Christ.

We do every kind of Christian works includes to work on to increase our holiness and justice day by day.

For our supernatural merit God gives us rewards in heaven.

It cannot be the reward of heaven because we have received God’s gift of everlasting life

in heaven at our baptism. We already have it by Christ merit on the cross.

With our works, we can increase our holiness and justice, but this ongoing work doesn’t

increase our right/eligibility to go to heaven (our eternal life). – For the simple reason,

which is; at our baptism (at the first stage of our salvation) God has already given us as

His free gift of 100 % right/eligibility to go to heaven (our eternal life).

So, for the above reason we cannot increase our 100 % right/eligibility to go to heaven

(our eternal life) and we don’t need to increase it because we have it all since our baptism.

Now we can understand the Joint Declaration.

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION

by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts

as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in

Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of faith is

NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

How could we merit our right/eligibility to go to heaven (our eternal life) when God has

already given to us as His free gift at our baptism? It is irrevocable and we have it. –

Christ merited for us, paid in full on the cross.

We don’t need to merit and we can’t merit something we already have.

Steve you have stated; “In fact we merit eternal life.”

And I tell you Steve, according to the teaching of the RCC “Joint Declaration” and

according to the teaching of the Scripture our eternal life is God’s free gift and we have it

from our baptism. – We don’t need to merit it because we have it in full.

If you Steve still believe we can merit eternal life, please explain to me:

How can I merit my eternal life when I have my eternal life since my baptism

as God’s free gift. – Christ merited me on the cross, paid in full?

Continue**
 
**FIRST STAGE OF OUR SALVATION.

GOD’S WORD IN CONTEXT CONCERNING OUR SALVATION

Rom:5:18;
As through one man’s offense judgment come to all men, RESULTING IN

CONDEMNATION, even so through one Man’s righteous act the FREE GIFT

come to all men, RESULTING IN JUSTIFICATION.

Rom.3:24;
Being justified FREELY BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Rom.11:6;
And if by GRACE, then it is no longer WORKS; otherwise GRACE is no longer Grace.

But if it is of WORKS, it is no longer GRACE;

Eph.2:8-9; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)
For by GRACE you have been saved through faith; and this is not jour own doing, it is the

GIFT of God – NOT because of work, …

Eph.2:8-9; (Weymouth New Testament)
For it is by grace that you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves.

It is God’s gift, and is not on the ground of merit,

CONCLUSION

Salvation is NOT a matter of achieving but RECEIVING IT FREELY

from God hands, in faith.”

SECOND STAGE OF OUR SALVATION

The second stage of our salvation takes place from baptism until we die.

This is the time to work out (the benefits) of our salvation (being more just

and more holy day by day) and to do all kinds of different works of Christ.

This is the time to put under our belts as much supernatural works/merit as we can. – And

we should!!!

GOD’S WORD IN CONTEXT CONCERNING OUR WORKS

Eph.2;10;
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God hath

before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom.4:5-6;
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith

is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to

whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

1 Cor.3:13-15;
Each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed

with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If any man’s work

which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned

up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Continue**
 
**CONDITIONS THAT OUR WORKS (OUR DEEDS) COUNT FOR ANYTHING

Conditions MUST BE PRESENT to make SUPERNATURAL MERIT possible.

The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its

object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL

GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the

Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING by Jimmy Akin

Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT

BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER

LOVE for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings

out of the love of God.

This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY

KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote. Emphasize mine.

If we live our Christian life in uncertainty, fear and doubt we can NEVER be qualified to do

supernatural works because our work instead of actual grace energized by the spirit of

slavery, the fear of hell and OUR WORKS REJECTED BY GOD.

I tell you Steve, the way I do supernatural work in the light of the above teachings:
  1. I always keep in mind Eph.2:10.
  2. I believe Rom.4:5-6; Eph.2:8-9; Rom.3:24; Rom.5:18; Rom.11:6; that I don’t have to
work for my salvation even an iota, my salvation is God’s free gift. – 100 % gift and I can

contribute nothing to it.

For my work to increase my justification and sanctification God gives me reward in heaven

if my work up to the standard of supernatural merit.

But if I do my work to get or to keep my salvation I do my work for my own interest and

that work is wood, hay and straw, rejected by God.
  1. I believe, according to Rom.4:5-6; 1 Cor.3:12-15 even if I do nothing or all my work
rejected by God I still enter into heaven, this knowledge SET ME FREE to freely decide to

work or not to work without the fear of hell. – This is a condition to do supernatural merit.

There are other conditions as well. – It is not so simple to do supernatural merit.
  1. I work as much as I possibly can, FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or
INTERNAL NECESSITY not BECAUSE IT WILL HELP ME SOMEHOW, but because I

want to do it out of SHEER for the Glory of God and for the love of others.

If we not set free to love freely, we cannot love.

If we not set free to freely decide to work, we cannot do supernatural work/merit.

We cannot please God with the work we MUST do, because we cannot do it FREELY,

WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY. – The work we

MUST do is NOT supernatural work!!!

MUST always kills our supernatural works/good works.

THE THIRD STAGE OF OUR SALVATION

Even of those Christians who died 2,000 years ago their salvation not yet completed.

Our salvation will be completed and we will be immortal at the fulfillment of John 14:1-3;

1 Thess.4:15-18; 1 Cor.15:42-44, 51-57; Rev.20:4-6. – Then will be fulfill Dan.7:13-14, 18,

22, 27 also.

Blessings

LatinRight**
 
jcrichton said:
Hi, LatinRight!
Correct. God will not force us to choose Him above ourselves. Jesus explains that the has Given His Sheep to the Father and that none can take them from the Father’s Hand… that’s our Justification and Salvation; however, as Scriptures maintain, we must adhere to Christ (St. John 15:1-10) otherwise we are lost!

This passage is so interesting because it clearly demonstrates that Salvation is Freely Granted, that we are Justified by Christ, and that we are able to produce good fruits in Christ; yet, if we act/remove ourselves from the Vine we will be cutoff and burnt.

His Disciples are “cleaned” by Him but they (as we) must remain in Him so that He may remain in them–otherwise they (as we) are nothing!

Maran atha!

Angel
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**Blessings Angel,

I prove, a child of God/His elect cannot lose his/her salvation.

It is helpful if we understand the Book of Life.

God has completed the Book of Life before the foundation of the world, by taken out the

names of the reprobates from the Book of Life for their vehement rejection of God and His grace.

According to RCC teaching, there are two groups of people in the world today:
  1. Those whose name stands written in the Book of Life, they are God’s children/His elect,
God predestined all His children to heaven, they cannot lose their salvation.
  1. The reprobates. For their vehement rejection of God and His grace God has taken out
their names from the Book of Life. They all end up in hell.

God doesn’t work in our chronological order, God has completed the Book of Life “from all eternity”

From the completion, the Book of Life is not subject to alteration.

For our understanding the actions in the Book of Life is written in our chronological order.

Like the names of the reprobates taken out from the Book of Life at that point in our time

when a reprobate reject God.

For the above reason some Christian can make a wrong conclusion that a child of

God can lose salvation. – This is not the case.

Further confusion comes in for example when some Christian read: “Rom.11:22 …

otherwise you too will be cut off.” – The question arises: To whom Rom.11:22 addressed to?

1 John 2:19 explains it:

1 John 2:19 (IGNATIUS CATHOLIC STUDY BIBLE)

“They went out from us; but they WERE NOT of us; for if they HAD

BEEN of us, they would CONTINUED with us; …”

We can be sure some of the reprobates whose names taken out from the Book of Life still

among us in the Christian groups but they WERE not of us and they ARE NOT of us.

God wants to save everyone, God gives enough grace everyone includes

the reprobates to freely choose between life or death.

The reprobates for their vehement rejection of God and His grace all end up in hell.

As 1 John 2:19 explains: Some reprobates come into the Christian groups.

God has given them enough grace to believe the Gospel, to freely make

the decision between heaven and hell.

Some of them for a limited time believe the gospel (they have sufficient grace to believe)

means they have even a kind of a faith to believe, but God also see, they will

vehemently reject Him and His grace.

Continue**
 
**THE RESULTS OF THEIR REJECTION
  1. Their name was CUT OF from the Book of Life from all eternity.
  2. God didn’t call them into His service.
  3. God didn’t give them His gift of formed faith.
  4. God didn’t predestined them to heaven.
  5. As a part of our baptism God takes our (spirit + soul) up to heaven and in heaven
baptize us into the Body of Christ and then God makes us sit together in the heavenly

places in Christ Jesus. – For details of our baptism please see my post on page 1, # 15.

For the above reason and for many other reasons, we can be sure God does not give

the reprobates His gift of baptism. – “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” – Rom.11:29.

For example: If God would baptize some reprobates into the Body of Christ, then the Body

of Christ would be a mixture of the Bride of Christ and the reprobates. Which is unimaginable.

Further complication would be, if a reprobate would die while he is a member of the Body

of Christ would end up in heaven and God would lose His omniscience.
  1. God didn’t give them his special grace ‘the gift of final perseverance.”
  2. 1 John 2:19 Proclaims, they never were part of God’s children.
RESULTS OF THER REJECTION: 1 John 2:19 (IGNATIUS CATHOLIC STUDY BIBLE)

“They went out from us; but they WERE NOT of us; for if they HAD BEEN of us,

they would CONTINUED with us; …”

IT IS A THEOLOGICAL FACT

Any warnings which includes cut off (cut off from the Book of Life) addressed to the

reprobates who are among us but they are not part of us.

We can be positive: If we are genuine Christians/predestined to heaven, we will always

genuine Christians, this is a* DE FIDE *Catholic Dogma, (the highest level of binding

theological certainty).

GOD TAKES NO CHANCE WITH THE SALVATION OF HIS

CHILDREN – He assures their salvation.

Quote: St. Thomas Aquinas, In his Summa Theologiae he wrote:

[P]erseverance is called he abiding in good TO the end of life.

And in order to have this perseverance man . . . needs the divine assistance guiding him

and guarding him against the attacks of the passions . . . that he may be kept from evil

TILL the end of his life (ST IIa:109:10)

This same teaching was infallibly taught by the Council of Trent after the Protestant Reformation.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of "That Great and Special Gift of

Final Perseverance," and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of "the gift of perseverance of

which it is written:

‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’

Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who

stands to stand [Rom. 14:4]."

Aquinas said it always saves a person because of the kind of grace it is; The gift of final

perseverance always works.

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “the gift of final perseverance.”

The Church formally teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance. [43] Aquinas (and

even Molina) said this grace always ensures that a person will persevere. [44] Aquinas

said, “Predestination [to final salvation] most certainly and infallibly takes effect.”

Aquinas said the gift of final perseverance is “the abiding in good to the end of life.

In order to have this perseverance man…needs the divine assistance guiding and

guarding him against the attacks of the passions…” End quote

Continue**
 
**The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a DE FIDE

Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect

Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.

God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful

figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes). This book of life is a list which

contains the names of ALL THE ELECT and admits NEITHER ADDITIONS NO ERASURES.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the DEFINITENESS of the number of the elect,

follows NATURALLY from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the

predestined is UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be

UNCHANGEABLE and DEFINITE, subject NEITHER to ADDITIONS nor to

CANCELLATIONS. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of

certitude in God’s knowledge and would DESTROY His omniscience.

End quote Emphasize added.

Blessings

LatinRight**
 
LatinRight said:
The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a DE FIDE

Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect

Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.

God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful

figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes). This book of life is a list which

contains the names of ALL THE ELECT and admits NEITHER ADDITIONS NO ERASURES.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the DEFINITENESS of the number of the elect,

follows NATURALLY from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the

predestined is UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be

UNCHANGEABLE and DEFINITE, subject NEITHER to ADDITIONS nor to

CANCELLATIONS. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of

certitude in God’s knowledge and would DESTROY His omniscience.

End quote Emphasize added.

Blessings

LatinRight
Click to expand...
Hi, LatinRights!
I’m not a learned person–far from it; yet, the understanding and fixating of Heavenly things are and must be according to God and not the divination (as in finding the truth through understanding God’s Revelation) of man.

In Apocalypse 3 Jesus is not stating He will not remove/blot out the names of those who have remained in Fellowship; yet, this is not an affirmation that once they “claimed” being saved they are eternally saved. Rather, Jesus is encouraging the Church to return to God… He offers that those who remain in Fellowship with Him will have their names remain in the Book of Life–not that their names will not be removed from the book of Life regardless of their determination to remain in Fellowship or to reject God while choose “self.”

Conversely, though it is Christ Who brings up the issue of the Book of Life, we find that the Holy Spirit has Revealed such a relationship prior to the Incarnate Word (Psalm 69:28)–here, the Psalmist (prophet) requests from God to exact Justice–remove their names from the Book of Life!

Predestination does not mean that God has Written in the Book of Life the names of those ‘He Elected for Salvation,’ granting them Salvific protection regardless of their “choice” to engage in unrighteousness; while, simultaneously, rejecting/hindering those who ‘He Chose for damnation’ so that they could never gain the Grace and Justification that would grant them Salvation–this would be fully a contradiction of Yahweh God (Ezekiel 18).

Knowing the score at the end of the game before the game even starts does not equate to fixing the game so that one person/team ends up the winner/loser.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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