"Explaination" of conservative seminarians

[batteddy]

Hmm…as a very conservative male with a 135 IQ and planning on being a priest, I can say this is certainly not always true.

However, I do not doubt that it happens…or even that it happens commonly.

Because “intellectuals” and “intellegentsia” are more often liberal. And while I cannot say that most or even many liberals are smart (the world is a vast sea of people of mediocre intellegence…I dont mean it as an insult…its just true), the liberal pool is likely to have a greater percentage of its membership be more intellegent than the conservative pool is. There are very smart conservatives…but a smart person is more likely to be liberal and a liberal person is more likely to be smart. Its just the way education has propogandized since the Enlightenment: “true intellegence must be progressive”…and intellectual people have bought into this and embraced education and liberalism as one package…while conservatives, especially in America, have embraced conservativism and stupidity (“not being a nerd/egghead”) as one package. To be a “real, red-blooded American” in many places means to be…less smart…its sad, its pathetic…but its true. Plus, as part of the liberal optimism of the 60’s and 70’s…devoted, smart liberals were morely likely to enter the priesthood to advance their cause…while intellectual conservatives were in a malaise, and so the conservatives who did want to enter the priesthood were more often not the smart ones.

However, I think we are seeing a shift. Liberals have gone so far and become so bitter…that they dont even see a need to join the priesthood to push their agenda…they believe in abolishing the priesthood altogether! Any liberals now entering are probably not that intellectual, because the intellectual ones see no need for the priesthood. And the conservatives who enter now are likely to be the smart ones, because only the most informed are seeking out the priesthood…and less smart conservatives are not entering as much, because the conservative american tone these days sees the priesthood as something effeminate, and marriage as the route of the “real man”…so only the smart conservatives, informed enough to know this isnt true, are entering.

 

[Fitz]

Clint Ellis:

A few days ago a priest I know attended a conference. There the issue of the derth of seminarians was discussed.

One of the presenters stated that to be successful in ministry, it’s critical that priests have an IQ of at least 110, and that most of the ‘conservative’ crop of seminary applicants have IQs of 100 or less, and are thus not accepted.

To laugh or to cry.

An IQ of 110 is dead average. Less that 100 would not be acceptable really. I doubt that they would pass all the tough classes. What an absurd talk. Was this person commenting like this because he did not like orthodox priests?

An IQ score is overrated anyway. The presenter that the OP originally wrote about is a snob. He must think himself very smart.

 

[SFH]

Clint Ellis:

A few days ago a priest I know attended a conference. There the issue of the derth of seminarians was discussed.

One of the presenters stated that to be successful in ministry, it’s critical that priests have an IQ of at least 110, and that most of the ‘conservative’ crop of seminary applicants have IQs of 100 or less, and are thus not accepted.

To laugh or to cry.

You want to see who really has the low IQ? Ask him who conducted the study, what was the standard deviation, how large was the sample size, etc.

“Some people use statistics like drunks use lamp posts, for support rather than illumination.” Oscar Wilde

 

[Petergee]

Fitz:

An IQ of 110 is dead average. Less that 100 would not be acceptable really. I doubt that they would pass all the tough classes.

No, by definition an IQ of 100 is dead average. I’m sure there are many who succeed wonderfully in the priesthood and many other demanding fields who have IQs of 90 or even 80. They may have to study harder to pass the exams, but many other factors like determination, dedication, and prayerfulness are also important in deternining whether a candidate will make it. Conversely, there are some people with high IQs who can’t even hold down any job.

An IQ score is overrated anyway. The presenter that the OP originally wrote about is a snob. He must think himself very smart.

Agreed. If he has such a high IQ, he should join Mensa and he’ll be brought back to earth with a thud when he realises the members comprise the same mix of political views and religious beliefs, and in the same proportions, as society as a whole.

 

[m134e5]

Clint Ellis:

A few days ago a priest I know attended a conference. There the issue of the derth of seminarians was discussed.

One of the presenters stated that to be successful in ministry, it’s critical that priests have an IQ of at least 110, and that most of the ‘conservative’ crop of seminary applicants have IQs of 100 or less, and are thus not accepted.

What’s critical is for someone to have the vocation. It requires nothing more then that. I think they said St. John Vianney was too stupid to make it through seminary, but he did.

 

[Homebrew_roots]

wow, way to get a guy worried…my IQ exam is tomarrow because I am applying to seminary…and some people say God doesnt have a sense of humor…

 

[Sanctus]

Clint Ellis:

A few days ago a priest I know attended a conference. There the issue of the derth of seminarians was discussed.

One of the presenters stated that to be successful in ministry, it’s critical that priests have an IQ of at least 110, and that most of the ‘conservative’ crop of seminary applicants have IQs of 100 or less, and are thus not accepted.

To laugh or to cry.

Absurd…I think anyone here can attest to the fact that there are many “intelligent” priests who are “conservative” and “liberal”…I think most of us can also attest to the fact that what makes a “good” priest is that individual’s response to God in their lives.

 

[Matthew_Baldwin]

Hello All,

Not to throw a red-herring in but i feel that ORTHODOXY is the most important persuasion. A man of TRUTH will obtain the Kingdom far more than a man with a particular leaning. I am orthodox (I HOPE) yet considered conservative simply for being in line with the Church and thus the antithesis of society and her values. Seminarians in Melbourne and newly ordained are classed as conservative but the are just orthodox. They wear the collar, some can speak latin but they all connect with a liberal youth far better than a liberal would.

God Bless
Matt

 

[EtienneGilson]

fix:

Will you explain what you mean when you say a *conservative *has a *liberal *leaning theological perspective?

Simple, the seminaries, not the seminarians were conservative.

batteddy:

Hmm…as a very conservative male with a 135 IQ and planning on being a priest, I can say this is certainly not always true.

Congratulations and good luck. I was a conservative seminarians many moons ago and graduated .20 ahead of the rest of the seminary (the only IQ test I ever took scored me at 144, which I think is absurd…I’m much higher than that! In truth I don’t put much faith in a test that takes 60 minutes to complete). However, I did not continue for a number of reasons including problems I have with consrevative Catholicism and neither did many of the other students at the high end of the class. Most of the lower students also dropped out. It seems that not only do the brightest and least-bright not continue, but also the extreme left and exteme right.

 

[fix]

EtienneGilson:

Simple, the seminaries, not the seminarians were conservative.

Thank you. I should have read it more slowly.

 

[puzzleannie]

Clint Ellis:

A few days ago a priest I know attended a conference. There the issue of the derth of seminarians was discussed.

One of the presenters stated that to be successful in ministry, it’s critical that priests have an IQ of at least 110, and that most of the ‘conservative’ crop of seminary applicants have IQs of 100 or less, and are thus not accepted.

To laugh or to cry.

I guess the seminary that finally accepted Solanus Casey didn’t get the memo.

 

[FiremanFrank]

EtienneGilson:

Simple, the seminaries, not the seminarians were conservative.

I did not continue for a number of reasons including problems I have with consrevative Catholicism and neither did many of the other students at the high end of the class. Most of the lower students also dropped out. It seems that not only do the brightest and least-bright not continue, but also the extreme left and exteme right.

The Holy Spirit’s weeding out process???

Eliminate many of those who are too “high” on their own intellectuality …

As well as those who might be in need of a bit more training.

Works for me!

 

[ComradeAndrei]

I think one thing that helps would be to go into the seminary without an agenda, that is what I’m going to do. I believe that if you go into the seminary hellbent on celebrating Mass ad orientem in Latin or with liturgical dancers and whatnot you will miss the real point-spiritual formation, character formation, and learning how to be a good priest.

Wasn’t it St. Thomas Aquinas the one that his peers in school called the “Dumb Ox” yet he became one of our most brilliant theologians, the Angelic Doctor?

Furthermore, I can tell you from my experience at the university, that just because a person is really smart does not mean they will succeed nor will a person fail if they aren’t so smart. There are plenty of people around here that could probably give a good argument for our own non-existence who probably couldn’t successfully hold down a simple service job.

While I myself am pretty intelligent, I’m in the lower eschelons of the upper intellegensia so I think I have a healthy dose of good ol’ common sense while being very intellectually capable. Over achievers annoy me…

 

[Brendan]

ComradeAndrei:

Wasn’t it St. Thomas Aquinas the one that his peers in school called the “Dumb Ox” yet he became one of our most brilliant theologians, the Angelic Doctor?

FYI,

that term refered to “Dumb” in its orginal sense, that of muteness, not of intellect. Aquinas spoke very little at school and when he did, he did it was brief.

The ‘Ox’ part refered to his size

His intellect was not lost on his schoolmates, many of who looked to him for help.

 

[EtienneGilson]

FiremanFrank:

The Holy Spirit’s weeding out process???

Eliminate many of those who are too “high” on their own intellectuality …

As well as those who might be in need of a bit more training.

Works for me!

LOL, yes, because intelligent people MUST be too blinded by their pride to be good priests

Is knowledge not counted among the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit?..How can a person know if he does not learn?How can he learn without teachers? O stupid and idle gossip of the ignorant!An enemy of nature is the one who despises knowledge: the longing for knowledge lies within human nature… St. John of Capistrano Letter on Study to the Friars of the Observance

 

[johnnykins]

EtienneGilson:

LOL, yes, because intelligent people MUST be too blinded by their pride to be good priests

In my experience I would have to agree that that’s so in many cases (admitedly not all cases). I’ve known many ex-priests, ex-nuns and ex-brothers who took the position that they knew better than Rome, better than the doctors of the Church, certainly better than the people in the pews. I attribute that often to pride.

It’s a pity really.

Of course knowledge and intelligence are not always synonymous. Let’s face it, some of the grandest schemes in history by some of the brightest have been completely wrong and sheer disaster. And, what passes for knowledge is sometimes rather startling. That such would apply to priests is hardly controversial.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

that term refered to “Dumb” in its orginal sense, that of muteness, not of intellect. Aquinas spoke very little at school and when he did, he did it was brief.

The ‘Ox’ part refered to his size

His intellect was not lost on his schoolmates, many of who looked to him for help.

OK, well then bad example!

Still, point stands that it does not necessarily follow that really intelligent men = good priest material. Sometimes really intelligent people are also really proud and will not listen to the advice of others or to their legitimate superiors.

 

[chicago]

ComradeAndrei:

OK, well then bad example!

Still, point stands that it does not necessarily follow that really intelligent men = good priest material. Sometimes really intelligent people are also really proud and will not listen to the advice of others or to their legitimate superiors.

And sometimes others who are inferior in their understandings and assessments (including many a legitimate superior) are proud and refuse to listen to the sound advice of the intelligent.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

And sometimes others who are inferior in their understandings and assessments (including many a legitimate superior) are proud and refuse to listen to the sound advice of the intelligent.

True.