Explaining Catholic beliefs to Protestants

  • Thread starter Thread starter kristanl
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

kristanl

Guest
Many of my friends have trouble understanding why we do certain things, and I have been able to state to them where in the bible and why… But I was just wondering other ways people explain things such as:
-Mary, Rosary, people kneeling infront of her and praying to her
-Saints
-Purgatory
-Praying to people who are dead, having mass for them etc.
-Why one of our commandments is seperated and one of them about icons is not there.
-Why we say prayers over and over again
-Why we dont believe we can just say we are saved and thats how we get to heaven.
-Confession to a priest

I would love to have more biblical support for these beliefs, as I am a strong believer in the Catholic faith and our beliefs.
I would also like to hear from other Christians, who dont believe in these things, and how you believe this harms Catholics into getting into heaven.
Thanks!
 
Well, you’re in luck! There’s a website that gives the scriptural support (and early Church support) for all of the items that you mentioned. Here it is:

scripturecatholic.com/

If you can’t find something, don’t hesitate to ask. The part on icons is under Sacramentals. God bless.
 
Many of my friends have trouble understanding why we do certain things, and I have been able to state to them where in the bible and why… But I was just wondering other ways people explain things such as:
-Mary, Rosary, people kneeling infront of her and praying to her
-Saints
-Purgatory
-Praying to people who are dead, having mass for them etc.
-Why one of our commandments is seperated and one of them about icons is not there.
-Why we say prayers over and over again
-Why we dont believe we can just say we are saved and thats how we get to heaven.
-Confession to a priest

I would love to have more biblical support for these beliefs, as I am a strong believer in the Catholic faith and our beliefs.
I would also like to hear from other Christians, who dont believe in these things, and how you believe this harms Catholics into getting into heaven.
Thanks!
While I see you already have a good site that has copius biblical and early father information regarding things catholics believe I would simply ask why all things must be found in the bible to begin with.
 
Yes-- that is how I feel about all of these things, it is nice to have biblical support for what you believe… But prayers to saints, mary, the rosary-- all bring me closer and closer to God.
Thanks for the site by the way!
 
Many of my friends have trouble understanding why we do certain things, and I have been able to state to them where in the bible and why… But I was just wondering other ways people explain things such as:
-Mary, Rosary, people kneeling infront of her and praying to her
-Saints
-Purgatory
-Praying to people who are dead, having mass for them etc.
-Why one of our commandments is seperated and one of them about icons is not there.
-Why we say prayers over and over again
-Why we dont believe we can just say we are saved and thats how we get to heaven.
-Confession to a priest

I would love to have more biblical support for these beliefs, as I am a strong believer in the Catholic faith and our beliefs.
I would also like to hear from other Christians, who dont believe in these things, and how you believe this harms Catholics into getting into heaven.
Thanks!
I just watched a DVD called Common Ground in which a Priest (Fr. John Ricardo) has a dialog with a Protestant minister. It is well worth watching!!
 
While I see you already have a good site that has copius biblical and early father information regarding things catholics believe I would simply ask why all things must be found in the bible to begin with.
That’s a good question, that even many Catholics ask. And here are the answers:

St. Paul: “To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.” (1 Corinthians 9:20 NIV)

St. Paul: “Therefore I urge you to imitate me.” (1 Corinthians 4:16)

And so, to Bible-only Christians we should become like Bible-only Christians, for the sake of sharing all the blessings that the Gospel brings. And, btw, Jesus Himself did the same thing. To the Sadducees, who only believed the Torah, the first five books of the Bible which Moses gave them, Jesus proved to them what He was teaching from the Torah…

“That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us…” Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.” (Matthew 22:23-33)

And you see there, that Jesus quoted the Torah (Exodus 3:6) to the Sadducees, to prove that death is not the end, which is what the Sadducees believed. At other times Jesus quoted the other Prophets to the Pharisees, who accepted the whole Old Testament (Tanakh), to prove His teachings.

And one more point: one of things that I have discovered, much to my surprise, is that for every teaching of the Catholic Church, God has made sure that we have something in Scripture to support it. And that means, not only that the Catholic Church is His one true Church, but that God intends for us to point these things out to our fellow Bible-believing Christians - that they may share in all the blessings that the Gospel brings. 🙂
 
I just watched a DVD called Common Ground in which a Priest (Fr. John Ricardo) has a dialog with a Protestant minister. It is well worth watching!!
That was awesome! I also highly recommend it. And it airs on TBN on occasion. 👍
 
=kristanl-Many of my friends have trouble understanding why we do certain things, and I have been able to state to them where in the bible and why… But I was just wondering other ways people explain things such as:
Many of my friends have trouble understanding why we do certain things, and I have been able to state to them where in the bible and why… But I was just wondering other ways people explain things such as:
-Mary, * [Mother of GOD!] Lk. 1: 26 “In the sixth month the angel Gabriel **was sent from God ***to a city of Galilee named Nazareth to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, **“Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” **… And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus… And Mary said to the angel, “How shall this be, since I have no husband?” And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born * will be called holy, the Son of God.

**Rosary, people kneeling in front of her and praying to her **

The text of the “Hail Mary Prayer” can be found in Lk. Chapters 1 and 2.

**It is more accurate to say that we pray THROUGH Mary, than too Mary, but both are accurate. “Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of you’re womb JESUS. Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. “AMEN!

Catholics pray to Mary, the most perfect human being ever, because She id the Mother of our God! As a “Saint” Mary is in heaven with Jesus and has access to Christ in the manner we seek, face to face. Prayers to Mary and Saints who too are in God’s real presence in heaven allow us to have someone plead our needs before the actual throne of God. And they add their merits, the good they have done on earth to gain heaven, to our own petitions.
-Saints [see above comments]

**-Purgatory *****please look up Mt.16: 19, Jn. 20:21-23, 1 Jn. 5: 13-18 and Mt.16: 19. 1 Jn. 1:8 ***“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

Each of these topics is a post unto themselves. So if you want more detailed info ask.

Because we are sinners, and sin effects everyone, not just the sinner, there are latent [payback] effects that must be addressed because Jesus Himself tells us “*** Mt. 5: 48: “You, therefore, must be perfect, as you’re heavenly Father is perfect.” ***Because of God’s Divine Mercy, Love and Justice He has created a place of purification. Thought to be like Hell except for one HUGE difference. Those in Purgatory know that once perfected they too will get to heaven. In Hell, the greatest pain is total complete despair and loss of all hope. Also see 2 Mac. 12 and 1 Cor. 3:15.

-Praying to people whom are dead, having mass for them etc. *** Mt. 16:19, Mt. 18: 18, assign to Peter and THEE Church the power and authority to Govern, make laws and enforce them***. It was held by the early Jews and has continued as Catholic doctrine that the dead can benefit from our prayers [Mass being thee most perfect prayer].

James 5: “15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” **[Also 2 Tim. 1:18 and Mt. 5:8; Sir. 7:33]

-Why one of our commandments is separated and one of them about icons is not there.

I have no idea what you mean by a Commandment being “separated”? If you’re speaking of statues and stained glass windows and such. Do you carry photos of loved ones in you’re billfold? Why? Do you hang pictures of loved ones on walls at home? Why? That is exactly what statue and windows are; REMINDERS. Please read **Exodus Chapter 25 **and see what God Himself thinks about these reminders!

-Why we say prayers over and over again** READ Psalm 136 to me, aloud. Then we go to Daniel, 3:35 - 68. **

-Why we don’t believe we can just say we are saved and that’s how we get to heaven
.
Because that is Not God’s way.** See Jn. 3: 5 and 3:36, Mt.16:19**, and there is much more than this.

-Confession to a priest

Because it is one of the Seven Sacraments instituted by Christ. See Jn. 20:21-23, 1 Jn. 5:13-18, Mt. 19:16, and Mt.16:19. It’s all in the bible. Catholics don’t just make this stuff up.

If you’d like more information be specific and don’t ask for so much at a time. We are limited to 6,000 keystrokes.
.
I would also like to hear from other Christians, who dont believe in these things, and how you believe this harms Catholics into getting into heaven. Thanks!
What they think has no revelance to thee truth. God is not interested in their opinion, or for that matter mine. TRUTH is what God want’s, and every topic, every issue only has a single truth! That friend is what I’m exposing you to:thumbsup:**
 
I just watched a DVD called Common Ground in which a Priest (Fr. John Ricardo) has a dialog with a Protestant minister. It is well worth watching!!
I’ve seen it, and it’s pretty good.

Explaining Catholic beliefs to Protestants works some of the time, but you have to have a person or persons willing to listen to you with an open mind…i.e. can agree to disagree with you, but will listen to the explanation(s) nonetheless.

If someone is loaded for bear, just looking for a patsy for an argument, it’s generally not worth your time, IMHO.
 
I’ve seen it, and it’s pretty good.

Explaining Catholic beliefs to Protestants works some of the time, but you have to have a person or persons willing to listen to you with an open mind…i.e. can agree to disagree with you, but will listen to the explanation(s) nonetheless.

If someone is loaded for bear, just looking for a patsy for an argument, it’s generally not worth your time, IMHO.
I will accept that part of what made it so good was that both were there for open dialog and not for debate. Debates are fun to watch, but they largely do nothing to advance unity. Dialog is what is needed to restore communion.
 
Many of my friends have trouble understanding why we do certain things, and I have been able to state to them where in the bible and why… But I was just wondering other ways people explain things such as:

-Purgatory
-Why we dont believe we can just say we are saved and thats how we get to heaven.
-Confession to a priest
Let me try to address these first:

As you may know, in the Gospels, we read that Jesus gave the Apostles the power to bind and loose sins. Catholics believe that that power was handed on down through the Apostles to their successors. In fact, Apostolic Succession is considered to be one of the two necessary things that define the Church (the other is a belief in the Real Presence at Communion). This is why the Catholic Church considers the Orthodox Churches “true” churches, while Protestant churches are referred to by the Catholic Church as “ecclesiastical communities”.

Catholics don’t believe in “once saved, always saved”. We believe that once one is baptized, they are clensed of sin and part of God’s church. If nothing else happens, they are indeed “saved”. HOWEVER… Catholics believe that by our free will, it is possible to reject God by turning from Him through committing certain especially grievous sins called mortal sins. A mortal sin, which could be something like murder, rape, and so on, harms our relationship with God so much that we need to confess and be truly sorry before we can merit a chance at salvation again.

Now, the short answer is indeed yes, we CAN go directly to God to have our sins, even mortal ones, forgiven. The problem, however, is knowing whether we are being honest with ourselves. Let me throw out a couple of hypothetical scenarios as examples. Years ago a boy gets into a disagreement with another boy at school about playing a new videogame. The other boy gets jealous and steals the game from his friend. Now, years later, he feels bad. He may truly be sorry for it, and so he asks God for forgiveness. Is he forgiven? Well… perhaps, if he’s sincere, but how do we know that for sure? Ok, let’s take the same scenario, only this time, he goes to Confession and lets the priest know what he’s done. The priest absolves him of his sin, and suggests a penance for him. The penance is to track down his friend, to apologize to him, and to purchase a new game for him (or something equivalent).

Several things have just happened here that help confirm that the person is indeed sincere. First, he actually admitted the sin to someone aloud. This is not easy to do. Second, he not only asked God for forgiveness, but agreed to try to ask the person he offended for forgiveness. He also agreed to provide restitution. Someone who was not sincere would probably not go through all of that trouble. It’s important to note that it’s NOT the priest that’s absolving the sin, it’s God. The priest simply listens as a representative of God and an intermediary who has the same power to bind and loose sins that the Apostles did. His most important role is in getting us to say our sins aloud to someone and suggesting a suitable penance. The sacrament of Confession also helps relieve us of the guilt of our sins by making restitution, and is especially helpful if for whatever reason it was impossible to ask forgiveness from the person we offended (they don’t want to see you, they’ve moved, they’re dead, etc.).

Now, another difference here is the Catholic belief in Purgatory. Catholics believe that God deals with sin much like our justice system on Earth, because nothing impure can enter heaven. In other words, let’s say I kill someone. Later on, I am genuinely TRULY sorry for it. I beg forgiveness from the victim’s family, I pay them restitution, I talk to troubled youth to keep them from going down my path, etc. Now, even though I’ve done all of this, does it mean that I get off scot free? Nope. I am STILL expected to go to prison for a time to pay my debt to society. At some point, I may be released. Purgatory functions this way. Every sin you commit has a temporal and spiritual component. The spiritual component can be forgiven by God simply by praying. However, there are only three ways to get rid of the temporal component. First, you can do a penance. If you do that, it satisfies the debt. Second, you can go to Purgatory. If you beg God for forgiveness, he may grant it to you. But, since you did not pay your temporal debt by going to Confession, you will have to pay the debt in Purgatory, to clense you of the stain of your former sins (which ARE forgiven). Make no mistake, those that end up in Purgatory are GUARANTEED to go to heaven. They must however serve a penance after they die, so to speak, since nothing unclean can enter heaven. Now, mortal sins are ones that are SO severe, that they will doom you to hell if you do not ask for forgiveness. If I only ever committed venial sins in my life, and never went to confession, I would end up in Purgatory. But… if I commit even ONE mortal sin, I’m down to either Confession, or an Act of Perfect Contrition, which is the third way to get rid of the temporal component. An Act of Perfect Contrition is a prayer to God that begs Him to forgive your sins not because you are afraid of going to Hell, but because you truly regret disappointing Him and failing to do His will. You must also be completely free from ALL attachment to sin. This means that you can’t look back fondly on the time you got drunk and did something crazy, even though you’re sorry. You can’t think, oh, I’m sorry I had premarital sex, but it was good, wasn’t it? You must be completely free from all inclination to sin again. This is VERY difficult to do, but possible, as is proven by the Good Thief on the Cross.

So… Catholics have Confession to help guarantee that the temporal effects of sin have been dealt with, but what do Protestants have? Sin isn’t a problem for them if they only commit venial sins. They can ask God for forgiveness, and end up in Purgatory or Heaven. HOWEVER… if they commit even ONE mortal sin, they are in grave danger. They have no access to confession. Even if they ask for forgiveness, will they make an Act of Perfect Contrition? Most will never have even heard of it, and even for Catholics that know what it is, it is incredibly difficult. This helps explain the role of penance further.

Here is a link to ScriptureCatholic.com. This site provides the Biblical references, and the references from the Early Church Fathers, for many Catholic positions. It also provides some brief explanations. Read over my response, and then read over the link, and see if you have any questions.
scripturecatholic.com/confession.html
 
Many of my friends have trouble understanding why we do certain things, and I have been able to state to them where in the bible and why… But I was just wondering other ways people explain things such as:

-Saints
-Praying to people who are dead, having mass for them etc.
At it’s most basic level, a saint is any human that makes it to heaven.

For most people, it is impossible for us to know whether or not they made it to heaven definitively, because we don’t know the state of their soul. However, the church does also officially “proclaim” saints. These are those Catholics that have lived such extraordinary lives, that there is no doubt that they have made it to heaven. The purpose of doing this is to hold these people up as the ultimate Catholic role models. To see their statues in church is a bit like walking into the NFL Hall of Fame for football. These are people to be emulated (but of course, they are not god).

Most holy Biblical figures from the Old and New Testament are saints by default. For example, the Apostles, Paul, Mary and Joseph, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, and so on. Also, anyone martyred for the faith is considered a saint. This especially includes the early martyrs of the church from the Roman persecutions. Until about the ninth century, saints were proclaimed by popular acclaim, and further recognized as holy by the local bishop. These became local saints. Occassionally, one would become so famous, that they would be universally recognized, such as St. Nicholas or St. Patrick. In the ninth century, the pope began a process to standardize the proclamation of saints and make it universal.

Today, a saint’s cause can still be put forward to the Vatican by popular acclaim. A thorough investigation begins. If the person is found to be a good person and worthy of further study, all the details of the person’s life will be exaustively examined. If they are still found to be a holy person, they will be declared “Venerable.” This judgment states that the Church (made up of flawed humans) thinks that the person could be a saint. Now, they have to wait for God’s judgment on the matter. If a true miracle can be found to have occurred through the intercessionary prayer of that person, then the person is “Beatified”, and will become known as “Blessed so-and-so” (For example, Blessed Mother Teresa). If a second miracle can be confirmed, the person is “Canonized”, and officially becomes a saint. These miracles are considered the confirming, infallible judgment of God that the correct verdict was rendered in the investigation.

Now, when I teach the concept of “praying to saints (and Mary)” in my college Western Civilization classes, I phrase it something likes this.
  1. If you are a Christian, have you ever asked your congregation to pray for an intention, like a sick relative? The answer is that most likely, you have. Your whole congregation, together, prays aloud for the person to get better (or whatever the intention is). Is this problematic?
  2. As a Christian, do you believe in eternal life, whether it be in heaven or hell? For MOST Christian denominations, this is a key element of the faith. It is critical that we understand that when we die, we do not simply cease to exist, but continue on, thanks to the saving power of Christ. Death no longer has any power over us.
  3. So… if people do not cease to exist, and it’s ok to ask for a group of living people to pray together, why wouldn’t it be ok to ask both the living AND the dead to pray for our intentions?
Look at two famous Catholic prayers:

In the Hail Mary, we say “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray FOR us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.” We are not praying TO her as much as we are asking her to pray WITH us and FOR us.

Now, look at the Penitential Rite of the Mass, which you will hear every week in church:

“And I ask Blessed Mary, ever Virgin,
All the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray FOR me to the Lord our God.”

Catholics consider prayer so important, that here, we are actually asking the whole of creation to join us in prayer, including both the living, the dead, and even the angels and saints! This serves as a reminder that we are a part of a larger creation, and helps foster Christian unity.

I hope that helps!
 
I will accept that part of what made it so good was that both were there for open dialog and not for debate. Debates are fun to watch, but they largely do nothing to advance unity. Dialog is what is needed to restore communion.
That’s an excellent point. Quite often the terms and outcomes get confused.
 
Thank you so much for all of your replies! When I was talking about the commandments, I was talking about this…
These are our commandments we follow:

I am the Lord your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
You shall not covet you neighbor’s goods.

This is the one that majority of Protestants follow:
You shall have no other gods but me.
You shall not make unto you any graven images
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your mother and father
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness
You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

I was was wondering why we deleted the “you shall not make unto you any graven images”, and have two commandments where they have "you shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Okay- I looked it up now… Supposedly Catholics and Lutherans follow the (Deuteronomy 5:6-17) version, and other protestants and Jewish people follow verses from Exodus.

Why would the commandments be different from the different book we use? I know a lot of Protestants who think that we extracted the “you shall not make unto any graven images”, and I dont really know why we use the Deuternomy book instrad of Exodus… Any help???

Thanks again for all your wonderful responses!
 
Thank you so much for all of your replies! When I was talking about the commandments, I was talking about this…
These are our commandments we follow:

I am the Lord your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
You shall not covet you neighbor’s goods.

This is the one that majority of Protestants follow:
You shall have no other gods but me.
You shall not make unto you any graven images
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your mother and father
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness
You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

I was was wondering why we deleted the “you shall not make unto you any graven images”, and have two commandments where they have "you shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Okay- I looked it up now… Supposedly Catholics and Lutherans follow the (Deuteronomy 5:6-17) version, and other protestants and Jewish people follow verses from Exodus.

Why would the commandments be different from the different book we use? I know a lot of Protestants who think that we extracted the “you shall not make unto any graven images”, and I dont really know why we use the Deuternomy book instrad of Exodus… Any help???

Thanks again for all your wonderful responses!
?

The commandments are not different for anyone.

The interpretation of them are. There are still ten, catholic or protestant. The numbering is funny but the actual commandments are the same.

I suggest you go to New Advent and search 10 commandments first.

Then, if you need to get a defense for statues or images, go from there.

This part was covered in the ecumenical councils. I think it is based on a proper understanding of the incarnation that allows images.

🙂
 
Oh ok… On that website I found this:
Catechism of the Catholic Church #2084,

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.

So we technically have their second commandment in one of ours. Why do people tend to think that we take that our to support our reason for statues and such…
I always have found the statues to be so beautiful and important in my catholic faith.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top