Explaining importance of Catholic marriage ceremony to my non-catholic fiance

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RichSpidizzy

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So far I’ve been able to explain to her that Catholics hold marriage in a higher regard (in a way) than her religion. She is Baptist by the way.

I’ve explained that Catholics consider marriage to be a sacrament, something sacred that’s given as a gift from God. She gets that, but now I need to explain that a non-catholic wedding will not be a valid sacrament for me. Her argument will be that “We are the ones performing the ceremony, we marry eachother, the pastor doesn’t marry us. You think God will consider our marriage invalid and you living in sin if we don’t marry in your church???”

I just need explanation of the three necessities for a sacrament to be valid (Proper form, proper matter, and don’t even know the third) and specifically what these three are for the Catholic sacrament of matrimony. This will get me started and I’m sure I’ll have more questions breaking off from those.

She’ll then argue that these are man-made rules and not in scripture, but that’s a different agrument about papal authority which I’ll tackle another time.

Thank you all, Rich
:blessyou:
 
Rich,

Depending on how you want to approach this, you can address the fact that the Church does had man made laws (canon law) which requires you to be married in a church before a bishop, priest or deacon. It is possible to get a dispensation from this requirement, but the Church does discourage this because of the importance of marriage.

It also appears that your fiance is looking at marriage as most Protestants do – simply an even that involves the couple and their families. For Catholics marriage establishes a family which is the “domestic Church.” Jesus used the example of marriage in His relationship to the Church, and thus the Church sees marriage as a strong symbol of the unity of the Church.

While it is true that, in Latin theology, the couple are the ministers of the sacrament, it is also true that the Church wants to bless the union (nuptual blessing) to strengthen the couple as much as possible for the challenges of married life.

BTW, the three requirements you were look for are matter, form and intention.

Deacon Ed
 
Get a copy of the book “Sex and the Sacred City” by Steven Kellmeyer. It is a simple read. When the two of you finish reading it, she will know.
 
About those man-made rules.

The man-made rules (as in the canons as well as other formulations) generally come about as a result of figuring out how to LIVE the life Christ outlined for us in Scripture – how to live it in the real world.

If this “man-made rules” thing gets into teachings such as contraception, wrap your head around the concept of natural law.

Many of the non-scriptural “man-made rules” Catholics accept arise from natural law. I.e., God created the world. He said it is good. He gave man the brains to figure out a lot of truth just by studying creation. Therefore, a teaching which is in conformity with natural law, although not specifically found on the surface of Scripture, carries definitive weight and divine authority as coming not from “man” but from God in his Creation.
 
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mercygate:
Maybe start here: americancatholic.org/Features/Sacraments/Marriage.asp

Hey – Malachi4U? Where are you? Malachi4U is a convert from the Baptist tradition and his wife has not yet come over the Tiber. He’ll be a big help. Maybe PM the guy.
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Thanks mercygate, the link was helpful but I’ll deffinitly need to delve alot deeper. I PM’d Malachi4U today, I’m eager to hear what he has to share with me.
Deacon Ed:
For Catholics marriage establishes a family which is the “domestic Church.” Jesus used the example of marriage in His relationship to the Church, and thus the Church sees marriage as a strong symbol of the unity of the Church.
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Thanks Deacon Ed. Can you tell me where in scripture Jesus makes this correlation? It would be very useful!
Deacon Ed:
BTW, the three requirements you were look for are matter, form and intention.
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Can you tell me what the proper matter, form and intention are or where I can find the info? I tried the Catechism but it was no help, and searching here and google turned up nada. I’m having no luck today 😦
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beaver:
Get a copy of the book “Sex and the Sacred City” by Steven Kellmeyer. It is a simple read. When the two of you finish reading it, she will know.
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ordered from Amazon today! thanks!
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mercygate:
About those man-made rules…
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excellent points as usual mercygate. I’ll keep that in mind when trying to prove my point.

Thank you all for all your help and suggestions. Please keep me in your prayers, and Have a Blessed Christmas Season!

God Bless,
Rich
 
I would advise you personalize all this. Rather than saying, “The Catholic Church’s view of marriage…” followed by a pointed-headed academic theology, say instead, "I want more than a property contract with you (which is what non-sacramental marriage is), I want an bond of kinship with you and God. " (Sacramental marriage.)

Ok, that is still a little nerdy, but alot more romantic than a bunch of CCC and Canon Law quotes. 😃

Scott
 
Malachi4U is still here but barely. I have to repair crashed PC’s and I am going through some new training at work. My time here is more limited now so I limit the threads I visit.

I responded to some private email so I won’t go over those points. I just hope Rich can put it all together since I had trouble sending 4 parts back to him. 14,000+ charecters.

Ask her what she thinks marriage is. With self-mis-interpretation in many sects who knows what one believes? I can tell you what the Catholic Church teaches on marriage but I can not tell what the Baptist churches (plural) teach as each one can be different due to a complete lack of authority.

When you find out how she views marriage then let her know what your views are too. I hope your views reflect the Churches/Gods position on it. You need to share with each other what you believe and why. Make sure you can support your side which is easy as a Catholic with Sacred Scripture to back you up. Make sure you ask her to prove her side too from Scripture alone if her views are different then yours. Baptists can’t use man made traditions and are therefor limited to a 66 book Bible. (Do some still use all 73 books?) Ask her too if all Baptists believe her side or just one church or just whoever?

When you talk theology with her allways do it with the Love God wants us to show all people. Don’t make fun of her beliefs or her sect. Give them both the respect they deserve.

Let her ‘see’ your Faith and let those in her sect and family ‘see’ it also. Many Baptists have no idea what catholics acctually believe. Come to think of it, with 14,000,000 ex-Catholics in our country I bet there are a lot of Catholics and ex-Catholics that don’t know what the Church teaches either!:hmmm: The 14 Million ex-Catholic are proof of that. I bet most would still be in His Church if they knew the truth. I came home when I studied and learned the truth so that leaves 13,999,999 more to go.

Witness to her and share your Faith with her. Do not prosilytise her. Faith must be freely accepted or denied. It is a gift and cannot be forced upon anyone. (A Catholic teaching by the way). If she comes home fine, if she stays Baptist or changes sects with the wind fine. It is her choice and that choice is free for her to make.

Must go back to work so I had to rush this response. Its not perfect or complete but I hope it helps.

Baptists are Christian too! They also are Brothers of Christ.
 
Thanks for all your help everybody… Just wanted to let you all know that it is now a moot point as my fiance and I have decided to go seperate ways 😦

Hope all your New Years are better than mine is turning out to be! God Bless!
 
I’m sorry to hear about your engagement. I hope you decide to keep visiting us here, though.
 
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RichSpidizzy:
Thanks for all your help everybody… Just wanted to let you all know that it is now a moot point as my fiance and I have decided to go seperate ways 😦

Hope all your New Years are better than mine is turning out to be! God Bless!
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YIKES!! Wow! Something like this makes you sort of lose breath and words for a moment. . . .

As a wedding coordinator in the parish, I see many couples pass through and wonder if they both understand as to what is about to occur: the Sacrament of Marriage, making yourself one with another person, modeled after Christ and His Church, one in the same, yet distinct living entities.

I am truly saddened to read about this. I will ask Sts. Joseph (for the hesitation), Mary Madelene (one of many patron Saints of converts and one of my favorites), and Valentine (obvious) to join me in praying to God for your fiancee and you.

Mrs C in MI
 
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