Explaining levels of Heaven

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I can’t really say I know lots about what the Church teaches when it comes to Heaven, but I’m pretty sure I have a grasp on the basics. I have this non Catholic friend who I have many religious discussions with, and last time we got on the subject of Heaven.

It actually started when we were talking about the morality of different things. She thought it was good to try to be moral, but it wasn’t required. (because she believes that since she believes Jesus is God, she’s automatically saved - but that’s another topic entirely) She thought it was silly to try to be better than other people, because “it’s not like you can be more perfectly happy in Heaven”

I said “yes you can be.” I explained to her that we don’t try to be better than other people, for the sake of being better than them; we try to be as good as we can possibly be for no reason other than because we love God, and we want to be closer to Him. She still continued thinking that, “sure it’s good to be good, but it’s not required - because Heaven is Heaven, and nobody is less happy than another.” (paraphrased)

I tried an analogical approach. I said it’s not like some people are more or less happy than others; everyone is perfectly happy. Imagine everyone in Heaven is a glass filled with happiness. It’s not like some peoples glasses are less full than others, because all the glasses are full - 100%. The only difference is that some people have bigger glasses and can hold more happiness - because they are closer to God.

She just flat out disagreed with all my attempts with logic. And I can’t blame her because I didn’t really have any kind of evidence to back up my claim.

So here is my question: Are there Bible passages that support this teaching? How did the Church come up with this teaching, and where would it be in the Catechism? Or am I just completely wrong, or missing something important?

Thanks!
 
Rocko said:
So here is my question: Are there Bible passages that support this teaching?
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The usual passage cited here is John 14:2: “My Father’s house has many mansions.” The Church has understood this to mean that the experience of Heaven will not be uniformly the same for everyone.

Jesus told the Apostles that he was going to “prepare a place” for them in Heaven (next verse - John 14:3). So, we may infer that a suitable “mansion” for the Apostles was not part of the “original construction.”
 
There is a way to be properly disposed to receive God. It is the same Spirit only working as much as we or God permits. those who love God go to heaven. There are those who love Him more than others, they are disposed to receive him the more.

There are differing rewards in heaven for certain service on earth such as different “crowns,” or “talents.” So there is different degrees of glory in heaven such as there are angels, then archangels.
 
Jesus correctly describes Heaven in John 15:11.
I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
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Joy is a fruit of love, and as one loves, so shall one be joyful. So as one loves God now, so shall one be joyful in Heaven.

What is more, Jesus is also correctly describing the Gospel. The joy of the glad tidings is that God loves us and those who love live in Him and He in them. The Gospel is the revelation of God’s Love and Mercy in Christ Jesus.

Finally, Jesus is referring to a messanic prophesy. Israel is expecting a joyful messanic age, a joyful banquet if you will, and here Jesus shows what that age - that banquet - is: Love. Love is the banquet of the heart and love bears the fruit of joy in the heart in this new age.
 
DavidFilmer said:
The usual passage cited here is John 14:2: “My Father’s house has many mansions.” The Church has understood this to mean that the experience of Heaven will not be uniformly the same for everyone.

Jesus told the Apostles that he was going to “prepare a place” for them in Heaven (next verse - John 14:3). So, we may infer that a suitable “mansion” for the Apostles was not part of the “original construction.”
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Good points.

Also, if you can go outside of scripture to the Early Church fathers there was a writer that wrote about the different levels of Heaven when discussing the Keys that the Apostles have and how Peter’s Keys reached higher.

I cannot recall the writer off hand but I could easily find it.
 
The Lord says, “He [the Son of Man] will render to every one according to his works,” Matt. 16:27; and St. Paul teaches, “And every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labour,” 1 Cor. 3:8; and “He who soweth sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he that soweth in blessings shall also reap blessings,” 2 Cor. 9:6.

In God’s presence there is a variety in the intensity each soul experiences. Each individual will experience the Beatific Vision with a unique intensity suited to how his soul has corresponded to the graces received from God while on earth. Each soul will be the fulfillment of God’s action in that soul to the degree that the soul has consented to His action upon it in Divine Charity. The greater the conformity to the Image of the Incarnate Son, the greater the intensity of Communion. “Heavenly glory, or essential beatitude, is proportioned to the degree of grace or charity which precedes entry to heaven,” Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, The Mother of the Saviour and Our Interior Life.

As the Council of Trent decreed (de fide) :“The various good works are rewarded by different grades of grace.”

Now you friend will not yet comprehend this aspect, but when we consider all this with the Blessed Virgin in mind, we can see why each soul’s experience of the Beatific Vision is/will be unique.
 
**“Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Mt 5:19)
**
i am no Scripture scholar, but this sounds like different levels of Heaven to me???

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
 
All throughout Scripture, if it teaches anything at all about heaven, it teaches that it is so profoundly above our capability to even imagine the majesty and goodness of it all that the best terms we can understand it in is comparisons to known things associated with riches. Like mansions.

I would ask your friend to offer an opinion on why Jesus told the parable of the servants with the talents if what we do with our lives is truly irrelevant, and that coasting is every bit as “good” as living with passion?
 
The size of your glass is a great way to explain it. We try to live our lives here so as to increase our capacity for God.
 
Thanks everyone for your excellent responses! I just finished writing her a letter which included many of your points. Thanks again!
 
Rocko I was just thinking this morning about a story I read in the paper, it was about someone who won the state lottery and was somewhat upset that the prize was only a few million dollars, whereas most weeks it pays out more than that. Like we’d all really hate having to bear that cross, huh?

But in relation to your discussion, about what heaven or eternal reward might be like, it made me think that there are two fundamental known things about heaven that are worth noting. First, it means eternal life. Second, we will be in the presence of God. To me, personally, that would be the equivalent of hearing I won the lottery. The lottery spits out more cash than I have or could ever realistically earn, so winning it represents a huge increase above anything I could ever do on my own, no matter what it paid. And when I consider heaven, what more could I really ask for, what more would I need, than those two fundamental things?

So if the streets are paved in 24 karat, all the more valuable the reward. If we get a big “house” as opposed to a small one, great! If all our singing of praise is always on key and no one there ever heard of rap music, terrific! But none of those are what we are really after when you stop and think about it. It always comes back to the fundamental two things.

It makes me think that maybe it is this point your friend might be trying to express.

I would make the comparison of how we live in anticipation of this reward is a lot like the expectations of the lottery winner after the fact. We live in a way that gives hope for the greatest reward rather than expecting everyone will get some minimum payout no matter what.
 
Heaven and hell are difficult for anyone to explain from Scripture. Fr. Aidan Nichols in The Shape of Catholic Theology writes: "The biblical materials for a concept of God do not organize themselves. They do not automatically arrange themselves into a satisfactory form.

They achieve that form only when the human mind, seeking to understand its own faith, begins to work on them and to set them out in more intelligible ways. To organize the biblical materials, we soon find that we need to draw on such philosophical categories as good and evil, freedom and necessity, person and nature, mind and will, essence and existence, being and knowing. (I would add heaven/hell there)

Of course, the application of these notions to God is an attempt to speak of what lies beyond the world within terms drawn from this world, and so is only justified if we always add a postscript to that effect."

I have found some of the best writing on heaven/hell uses literary constructs, especially those using Dante or Milton. In the hands of a skillful Catholic interpreter like Anthony Esalen who writes for the Magnificat and who translated the Divine Comedy, you will find some unforgettable imagery and knowledge.

Read this and see if you don’t agree

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/07/31/the-freedom-of-heaven-the-freedom-of-hell/

In Christ,

dj
 
True happiness comes from loving God, and I can’t imagine that anyone loves God more than Mary, who carried Him in her womb as her baby boy.

So I won’t have the same absolute level of happiness in heaven as Mary, but I’ll have all the happiness I can take!

Another way of viewing it is this: A freshman majoring in music and a 60 year-old music professor are listening to a choir concert. They will both enjoy it, but undoubtedly the professor will enjoy it in greater depth than the student.
 
Luke_K said:
Another way of viewing it is this: A freshman majoring in music and a 60 year-old music professor are listening to a choir concert. They will both enjoy it, but undoubtedly the professor will enjoy it in greater depth than the student.
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OOOOH! I like that! I really like that!
 
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