Explaining Original Sin

[ichabode]

When we place ourselves in the Garden and eavesdrop … we find that the Original Sin is unique in many ways. When we struggle with “why Jesus dying on the cross was apparently good enough for every other sin of mankind, BUT not original sin…what would Jesus have to have done differently to have OS included I wonder?” ---- We need to refresh our memory about Original Sin. What was it? What is the status of Adam? Who initiated the original relationship between humanity and Divinity?

The sin of Adam is the first sin or first fault, and original sin is a reference to the state we are created in now after the fall from the “first sin”. Jesus did die on the cross for the eternal punishment related to the fall. We are made alive in the new Adam(Jesus). Just as God worked in salvation history with the Jews through a covenant, so that the world could see visibly where God’s family resided. This visible sign is now done through baptism. Anyone can perform the rite of baptism except the person themselves. No one can pour water on themselves and baptize themselves into Christ community. This is done on purpose, so that you will be joined to the family of God.

As Jesus said in Mk 3:33-35 "And He replied, “Who are my mother and my brothers?” And looking around on those who sat about him, he said “Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother.” Jesus is stressing that the spiritual family bond is stronger than any natural family bond. Jesus did not die on the cross, so that we could be created in a state of grace that was revealed to us a failure. Instead he died, so that the gates of heaven would be opened, for all of us. We would know for sure we are adopted children of God in our spiritual families by being born anew from the waters of regeneration. You are incorporated into God’s life through the sacrament of baptism. That is intentional so that you may have the tree of life restored and eats its fruit (Eucharist) which is God’s love poured out for us all. You are born, cleaned and fed by God’s spiritual family through the Church he established, and the Eucharist reveals how God’s life (grace) is distributed out to each of us in abundance. God did not desire the death of His son, so that we may be individuals, but so that we could see the city set upon a hill, and no without doubt where communion with God and his family is to be found.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I will say, some of these posts have helped me trying to understand original sin, but I still struggle with why Jesus dying on the cross was apparently good enough for every other sin of mankind, BUT not original sin…what would Jesus have to have done differently to have OS included I wonder? If enough people concentrated, put in enough prayers, would this be enough to do away with OS?

Actually you could go a step further here and ask, if Jesus was born of a woman, why He didn’t incur original sin in His makeup.

The church’s response to this is the Immaculate Conception.

The proclaimed Roman Catholic dogma states “that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin.”[3] Therefore, being always free from original sin, the doctrine teaches that from her conception Mary received the sanctifying grace that would normally come with baptism after birth.

This raises the question - does God create the soul at conception and “insert” it into the zygote, or do we obtain our spirit from our parents? After all if the sperm and ova are in any way living, then they each have a spiritual component, which would merge at conception. Hence it seems to me that if “original sin” is transmitted from our parents, not God.

Christ is different, although unique - He would have received a spiritual component from God (“fully divine” and sin free) and from His mother (“fully human”), but to avoid the contamination of “original sin” in His makeup, Mary was conceived “immaculately”.

The only other people who were conceived “immaculately” were Adam and Eve, but they were also naïve, in the sense of not having any concept of original sin or the trouble it would bring. Christ was born into a culture well aware that “… man is born to trouble as surely as sparks fly upward.” (Job 5:7 NIV). At the very least, He would not have been naïve.

As for not being able to just do away with “original sin” altogether by His sacrifice, I don’t think it is God’s will that we be free from all struggle. As the parable put it -

Matthew 13:24-30 NIV

The Parable of the Weeds

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

If we consider the weeds as faults in our character, and the wheat as our better points, then it may be the weeds have a role to play in forcing the wheat to grow a bit faster. For example, I’m prone to selfishness (amongst other faults), and in a sense this forces me to do and give a bit towards charity. Remove the selfishness altogether, and I may not be quite so aware of my less than perfect nature.

Or if you like, confession keeps us honest. Which reminds me, I’d better go myself in the near future.

 

[grannymh]

Actually you could go a step further here and ask, if Jesus was born of a woman, why He didn’t incur original sin in His makeup.

The church’s response to this is the Immaculate Conception.

The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary as you pointed out.

However, the fundamental reason that Jesus was not born in the usual human State of Original Sin is that Jesus assumed human nature. He did not absorb human nature. Because Jesus did not absorb human nature is why we can truly say that Jesus is like us in all things except sin of any kind. (Information source: “How is the Son of God Man?” CCC 470; “True God and True Man” CCC 464-483)

There is a whale of a difference between assume and absorb.(Information source: “How is the Son of God Man?” CCC 470; “True God and True Man” CCC 464-483)

This raises the question - does God create the soul at conception and “insert” it into the zygote, or do we obtain our spirit from our parents?

The base or foundation needed to answer this question is the initial Catholic doctrine that human nature per se unites the spiritual and material worlds. (CCC 355 and CCC 365-366 below)

**CCC 365 **The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body: i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

**CCC 366 **The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.

Christ is different, although unique - He would have received a spiritual component from God …

For me, the easy way is to say that Christ is One Person with two natures. Then I add that God is Three Persons in one nature. Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. As God, he freely assumed our nature via the Incarnation. He did not absorb our State of Original Sin.

I may be older than dirt, but I am smart enough to stick with the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, Index, page 753, and Glossary, page 864, when it comes to explaining the Divine Mystery of Jesus Christ, True God and True Man.

This last sentence of CCC 389 leaves one wondering.

CCC 389 The Church, which has the mind of Christ, knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.

Links to the* Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition*.
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/

Personal observation. I am starting to think that the last time the original problem of Original Sin was discussed is in the late 1940’s. No one seems to care these days.