Explaining the Canonization to Non-Christians

[devonsams]

Hello, first of all I’d like to apologize cause i dont speak english very well ;p

So I would like you guys to help me, how i explain to Protestants, atheists, muslims, anyway, non-catholics the Canonization and how does it make sense?

Some protestants tell me that it makes sense to believe that the church is infallible in Dogmas issues but one told me it is hard for him to believe she is infallible on believeing people are already in heaven. How can she know people are already in heaven? Like with 100 % sure?

I said him that one of the requirements to become saint was to die with church communion and to have 2 miracles. But he said to me it is hard to believe that 2 miracles was really miracles and not some natural explanation and it is not a 100% sure.

I tried to explain the omniscience of God, that he already knew he would be in heaven so the church couldn’t be wrong.

So, anyone can help me to give a good explanation that is not just: “The church is infallible, period, believe it by faith?”

 

[thistle]

Hello, first of all I’d like to apologize cause i dont speak english very well ;p

So I would like you guys to help me, how i explain to Protestants, atheists, muslims, anyway, non-catholics the Canonization and how does it make sense?

Some protestants tell me that it makes sense to believe that the church is infallible in Dogmas issues but one told me it is hard for him to believe she is infallible on believeing people are already in heaven. How can she know people are already in heaven? Like with 100 % sure?

I said him that one of the requirements to become saint was to die with church communion and to have 2 miracles. But he said to me it is hard to believe that 2 miracles was really miracles and not some natural explanation and it is not a 100% sure.

I tried to explain the omniscience of God, that he already knew he would be in heaven so the church couldn’t be wrong.

So, anyone can help me to give a good explanation that is not just: “The church is infallible, period, believe it by faith?”

ewtn.com/library/mary/canonize.htm

 

[KP3243]

Hello, first of all I’d like to apologize cause i dont speak english very well ;p

So I would like you guys to help me, how i explain to Protestants, atheists, muslims, anyway, non-catholics the Canonization and how does it make sense?

Some protestants tell me that it makes sense to believe that the church is infallible in Dogmas issues but one told me it is hard for him to believe she is infallible on believeing people are already in heaven. How can she know people are already in heaven? Like with 100 % sure?

I said him that one of the requirements to become saint was to die with church communion and to have 2 miracles. But he said to me it is hard to believe that 2 miracles was really miracles and not some natural explanation and it is not a 100% sure.

I tried to explain the omniscience of God, that he already knew he would be in heaven so the church couldn’t be wrong.

So, anyone can help me to give a good explanation that is not just: “The church is infallible, period, believe it by faith?”

I think a lot of Protestants believe everyone who believes in Jesus dies and goes to heaven so they probably find it odd or annoying that we only declare Catholics as saints. There are obvious holes in their logic but I think that would be their response.

As far as declaring things a miracle the church goes through a lengthy process to prove these miracles did happen. John Paul II’s cancer cure had to wait five years because people can go into remission where it appears the cancer has gone away. I know where I live the doctor at Saint Joseph’s hospital which Saint Maryanne Cope started and where her second miracle was preformed who was treating the patient who Cope healed, had to meet with cardinals and scientists from the Vatican and they flat out asked him do you believe this was an act of God or something medically. He said he initially joked with him that he thought he was just a really good doctor until he realized they didn’t get the joke or the subject matter was dead serious to them and he realized he have shouldn’t joke about it and he told them I believe it is an act of God because I know she was dying. It also backs the sisters statement up who where with the patient and she asked to have the plugs pulled and they went and got a relic from Cope over at the convent and pinned it to the woman and prayed with her and she gradually improved over the weeks instead of dying.

 

[bbentrup]

“100% sure” is not a fair standard since who knows what that means…can you be 100% sure of anything? But with the same faith we believe that the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus founded, we believe in its authority to infallibly declare sainthood.

But the church, as far as I am aware, does not obligate us to have this belief. When we recite the creed, we don’t recite a litany of saints in heaven. In other words, this is not an essential belief, just a natural one. In other words, the list of saints in heaven and the church’s correct maintenance of them or not is irrelevant to the skeptic’s decision for or against belief. The skeptic will never be able to prove the Church wrong either. So the skeptic should drop this issue if it does not come easily by faith for him or her and focus on the more important articles of faith, for example general infallibility when teaching dogmatically on faith and morals.

 

[Abu]

The 1967 *New Catholic Encyclopedia *discusses the theological foundation for the infallibility of canonization: "The dogma that saints are to be venerated and invoked as set forth in the profession of faith of Trent (cf. Denz. 1867) has as its correlative the power to canonize. … St. Thomas Aquinas says, ‘Honor we show the saints is a certain profession of faith by which we believe in their glory, and it is to be piously believed that even in this the judgment of the Church is not able to err’ (Quodl. 9:8:16).

“The pope cannot by solemn definition induce errors concerning faith and morals into the teaching of the universal Church. Should the Church hold up for universal veneration a man’s life and habits that in reality led to [his] damnation, it would lead the faithful into error. It is now theologically certain that the solemn canonization of a saint is an infallible and irrevocable decision of the supreme pontiff. God speaks infallibly through his Church as it demonstrates and exemplifies its universal teaching in a particular person or judges that person’s acts to be in accord with its teaching.”
ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur373.htm

Thus it follows from Christ’s foundation of His Church on St. Peter and His mandate: “He that hears you hears Me” [Lk 10:16].