Explaining the process of Courting

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You have been shown in this thread that dating may include “casual” dating
yet courting is courting
You can’t accept this then don’t
I think the point is that courting is not always better than dating as was claimed. For me, there is no way that courting would have been better than dating. For one, I refuse to be in a relationship with anyone for whom spending time alone is a near occasion of sin, so the stipulation that you avoid spending time alone is not necessary (obviously we still wouldn’t be sleeping together or anything like that). And beyond it being not necessary, for me it is very impractical to do so, I’m sorry but it is not better for me to refuse to see me FH except on weekends, or to reduce the amount of time I spend with him on weekends, both of which are necessary if I were to try and ‘court’ him rather than date him.

What is always better is expecting your partner to be a moral person and to avoid the near occasion of sin. Its also extremely important that you get to know each other naturally in all sorts of settings and that you learn to be honest with yourselves and each other about what is and is not ok for you in your relationship. This is possible both with dating and courting and is gauranteed by neither. So no, courting is not always better than dating.
 
agape, eros, fileo, storge, (epithumia)

agape was not (yet, without the Holy Spirit) possible for Peter

Joh 21:15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon, son of John, lovest (αγαπας) thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love (φιλω) thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest (αγαπας) thou me? He saith to him: yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love (φιλω) thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest (φιλεις) thou me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him the third time: Lovest (φιλεις) thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love (φιλεις) thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.
 
OK by me. Still
courting > dating
and only a few will get that…
There is no point telling this over and over and over (et infinitum) again
I think the point is that **courting is not always better than dating as was claimed. **

For me, there is no way that courting would have been better than dating. For one, I refuse to be in a relationship with anyone for whom spending time alone is a near occasion of sin, so the stipulation that you avoid spending time alone is not necessary (obviously we still wouldn’t be sleeping together or anything like that). And beyond it being not necessary, for me it is very impractical to do so, I’m sorry but it is not better for me to refuse to see me FH except on weekends, or to reduce the amount of time I spend with him on weekends, both of which are necessary if I were to try and ‘court’ him rather than date him.

What is always better is expecting your partner to be a moral person and to avoid the near occasion of sin. Its also extremely important that you get to know each other naturally in all sorts of settings and that you learn to be honest with yourselves and each other about what is and is not ok for you in your relationship. This is possible both with dating and courting and is gauranteed by neither. So no, courting is not always better than dating.
 
OK by me. Still
courting > dating
and only a few will get that…
There is no point telling this over and over and over (et infinitum) again
If you admit that courting is not always better than dating, what are you using to determine that it is better?
 
You have been shown in this thread that dating may include “casual” dating
yet courting is courting
You can’t accept this then don’t
There is nothing to “show.” Does what you mean by “casual dating” exist? Yes. I do not need to accept the definition of “dating” as inclusive of what “casual dating” signifies.

If you are saying that “courting” is better than “dating” because some people “date casually,” then you are promoting an illogical statement.

Let me offer an analogous claim:

Let us assume that apples are bad. Your claim is tantamount to saying that “Because apples are bad, vegetables are better than fruits.”

Do you see the problem? Are you comparing vegetables to fruits (with no specificity) or vegetables to apples? You must choose one – either vegetables are better than fruits and the fact that apples are bad is irrelevant without further explanation, or vegetables are better than apples.
OK by me. Still
courting > dating
and only a few will get that…
There is no point telling this over and over and over (et infinitum) again
Ad infinitum. And you still have not explained why courting is better than dating. I say that dating > courting. See? 🤷 Easy.
 
:rotfl:

Yes, I guess this is turning into a popcorn thread. 😃

My question was stemming, again, from the fact that just about every time people try to compare courting to dating they always take the best example of courting and the worst example of dating, compare the two and then claim that courting is better. Sure, courting at its best is better than dating at its worst, but the reverse is also true. In all events, it is an unfair comparison either way. One would have to compare courting at its best to dating at its best, and in doing so you will discover that for some people, like myself, dating is better, and for others I would guess courting is. One isn’t better than the other, it all depends. 🤷
 
:rotfl:

Yes, I guess this is turning into a popcorn thread. 😃

My question was stemming, again, from the fact that just about every time people try to compare courting to dating they always take the best example of courting and the worst example of dating, compare the two and then claim that courting is better. Sure, courting at its best is better than dating at its worst, but the reverse is also true. In all events, it is an unfair comparison either way. One would have to compare courting at its best to dating at its best, and in doing so you will discover that for some people, like myself, dating is better, and for others I would guess courting is. One isn’t better than the other, it all depends. 🤷
In reality, I believe, people have it even more messed up than you said: courting is pursuit, dating is selection. Once people have made their choice, they no longer date. Before they have chosen, they do not pursue. To compare the two is madness. I have spoken.
 
In reality, I believe, people have it even more messed up than you said: courting is pursuit, dating is selection. Once people have made their choice, they no longer date. Before they have chosen, they do not pursue. To compare the two is madness. I have spoken.
Isn’t courting from the days where you couldn’t really select anyway? You had one option, maybe two, and if you wanted to -]get married/-] raise the next generation of laborers, you just learned to live with each other.
 
Isn’t courting from the days where you couldn’t really select anyway? You had one option, maybe two, and if you wanted to -]get married/-] raise the next generation of laborers, you just learned to live with each other.
Courting is from the days when “everyone knew everyone” and didn’t much trust those they didn’t know. A woman who lost her good reputation in her parents’ social circle could not hope to marry someone who had a good reputation and social position himself, so women and their parents who had a good reputation and position to begin with were very careful to keep the women in situations where they could not cause a scandal. On that account, observing the boundaries of courtship (whatever those were in your time and place) was more and more important the farther you went up the social ladder. If you were “on the bottom” and going to marry somebody else “on the bottom” anyway, the rules were not always so strict. Beggars have rarely been in a position to be choosers.

These days, those who choose some of the boundaries that might have been typical of courtship in previous times usually do so to avoid the near occasion of sin. There are circles where reputation still counts and scandal is taken easily, but these are more and more scarce.

I will warn the OP, though, that boundaries that feel right in theory and when you are younger can become very tiresome as you get older. When you get old enough to move away from home, even for college, make yourself a date to revisit your boundaries, why you had them, and how you plan to tailor your goals to your new situation.
 
There is nothing to “show.” Does what you mean by “casual dating” exist? Yes. I do not need to accept the definition of “dating” as inclusive of what “casual dating” signifies.
Is there “casual” courting?
If not then you finally understand

Think it statistically
if you can’t see the difference between courting and dating
These words do have a different meaning and you should admit it.
Rebellion in hearth?
 
I think I have a different “take” on this, but let me ask some questions first:

If you spend time with someone of the opposite sex that you do not yet (and may never) have any intention of marrying, is that “dating”?

Does “courting” require that you have the intention of marrying the person you’re courting?

Do positions like “Courting>Dating” imply that men and women should never have social contact or cultivate a friendship if they do not want to marry each other or cannot marry each other?
 
Is there “casual” courting?
If not then you finally understand

Think it statistically
if you can’t see the difference between courting and dating
These words do have a different meaning and you should admit it.
Rebellion in hearth?
Again, you are comparing the best of courting to the worst of dating. As I noted in my previous post, you simply cannot draw the conclusion that courting is better from this comparison, you have to compare the best to the best, and then you would probably still need some hard statistics as to the percentage of dating which is best form to courting which is best form (opinion doesn’t cut it here, you need actual statistics), and then you would still need to show that the difference in the percentages of those who follow the best form comes from something intrinsic to what courting is as opposed to dating. (which means that you need to somehow show that there is something about never spending time alone which intrinsically leads to better relationships). I’m sorry, but you simply do not have enough information to make the kind of claim that you are making.

The fact of the matter is that those who are interested in healthy dating are not interested in unhealthy dating, so for these people it is wrong to tell them that courting is their best option by comparing healthy courting to unhealthy dating. Instead you can throw out unhealthy dating as something that isn’t even a possibility and then start comparing the options that are left, courting or healthy dating. Please try to compare healthy courting to healthy dating or else we really won’t be able to get anywhere in this discussion.
 
I think I have a different “take” on this, but let me ask some questions first:

If you spend time with someone of the opposite sex that you do not yet (and may never) have any intention of marrying, is that “dating”?

Does “courting” require that you have the intention of marrying the person you’re courting?

Do positions like “Courting>Dating” imply that men and women should never have social contact or cultivate a friendship if they do not want to marry each other or cannot marry each other?
Interesting points - thank you for posting your thoughts!

Here are mine:

In the dating that I have seen (and I have been exposded to dating), two members of the opposite gender go places (movies, dinner, coffee) to have fun. When I was asked if I had a boyfriend, and when I replied no, the general respponse is: “Why not? Why not have some fun?” Because I can have fun with friends - which is how I’ll lead into your 3rd question.

Courting does not mean that you cannot have soial contact with the opposite sex unless it is going towards marriage. I am wanting to court in the future, and I have many friends who are boys - youth group, homeschool group, etc. We have lot of fun together in a casual enviroment where we aren’t always wondering who’s a couple, etc.

Courting means going through a relationship with the goal being to find out if marriage will be the best way you both can serve God and each other. It is a relationship that begins with eternity in mind, with it’s main goal to serve God and His will in your life.
 
Interesting points - thank you for posting your thoughts!

Here are mine:

In the dating that I have seen (and I have been exposded to dating), two members of the opposite gender go places (movies, dinner, coffee) to have fun. When I was asked if I had a boyfriend, and when I replied no, the general respponse is: “Why not? Why not have some fun?” Because I can have fun with friends - which is how I’ll lead into your 3rd question.

Courting does not mean that you cannot have soial contact with the opposite sex unless it is going towards marriage. I am wanting to court in the future, and I have many friends who are boys - youth group, homeschool group, etc. We have lot of fun together in a casual enviroment where we aren’t always wondering who’s a couple, etc.

Courting means going through a relationship with the goal being to find out if marriage will be the best way you both can serve God and each other. It is a relationship that begins with eternity in mind, with it’s main goal to serve God and His will in your life.
My experience is that many people find their mate during social interactions in which they were not even aware of looking for anyone. Some are even friends for years, sort of drift apart as their lives drift in different directions, and then lo and behold before you know it they are in the same town and the courtship is practically accomplished before it is started. More to the point, there have been sexual situations that come up in life between two people who had not the slightest intention of having that happen. Before it happened, they would have said, “Him/Her? You must be joking! No way! They’re (fill-in supposed disqualifying reason)”

It is prudent to realize that sexual temptation is something that can appear suddenly and in the oddest places, and that regular exposure to it (even mentally) can wear down one’s defenses. The truth is, other things wearing down a person generally can wear down defenses. You can wear yourself out being nice to someone who is odious and find that is the very time your defenses against other assaults on your fidelity to God are the hardest to deal with. We all have to push on to the finish line no matter what our bodies are telling us, but we only have so much “won’t” power in a given day. Better not to find yourself having to push through because you weren’t smart about it and “hit the wall” while still in harm’s way. There is a lot of avoidable suffering there.

Your way of having social interactions with boys is a good one. You feel free to know people as friends, whether boys or girls, but you do it in a situation where you’ll have few opportunities to be hit unawares by temptations which are notorious for their power and speed. I don’t mean to be afraid of the opposite sex, but I do think it is wise to take the sort of precautions we do as a matter of course for other powerful forces of nature, such as water, electricity, fire, direct sunlight, dogs, horses, and so on. These are enriching parts of our lives, we wouldn’t dream hiding from them, but we respect their power and the dangers that we would be prone to if we were to ignore the powers in their basic nature. You don’t wade through flood waters that “aren’t that deep”, you don’t work on toasters without unplugging them, you don’t leave turpentine-soaked rags lying around your shop, you don’t get between a dog and its food, you don’t stand directly in front of or behind a horse, and so on. The same goes with someone of the opposite sex who is both a sexual and a fallable creature. You take basic precautions with your nature in mind, and then you can enjoy the blessings of your basic natures in relative safety. It doesn’t matter if you “aren’t interested”. You do it, anyway, just as you’d be careful around a dog that is “sweet” or a horse that “would never hurt a fly”. You use common sense, which is in notoriously short supply in today’s world of dating.
 
Is there “casual” courting?
If not then you finally understand
There could be. If you would like to define courting as “X with marriage in mind,” then I certainly have the right to restrict to definition of dating as “Y with marriage in mind.” No one is arguing that recreational dating is good. The problem is that in order for you to establish an actual comparison, we need to be discussing similar objects. Lumping dating with casual dating makes no sense whatsoever.
Think it statistically
if you can’t see the difference between courting and dating
These words do have a different meaning and you should admit it.
Rebellion in hearth?
The two words have different meanings, yes. They are equally permissible and their effectiveness depends on the person. Note that when I say “dating,” I exclude what most people would define as “casual dating.”
 
Again, you are comparing the best of courting to the worst of dating. As I noted in my previous post, you simply cannot draw the conclusion that courting is better from this comparison, you have to compare the best to the best, and then you would probably still need some hard statistics as to the percentage of dating which is best form to courting which is best form (opinion doesn’t cut it here, you need actual statistics), and then you would still need to show that the difference in the percentages of those who follow the best form comes from something intrinsic to what courting is as opposed to dating. (which means that you need to somehow show that there is something about never spending time alone which intrinsically leads to better relationships). I’m sorry, but you simply do not have enough information to make the kind of claim that you are making.

The fact of the matter is that those who are interested in healthy dating are not interested in unhealthy dating, so for these people it is wrong to tell them that courting is their best option by comparing healthy courting to unhealthy dating. Instead you can throw out unhealthy dating as something that isn’t even a possibility and then start comparing the options that are left, courting or healthy dating. Please try to compare healthy courting to healthy dating or else we really won’t be able to get anywhere in this discussion.
You seem to know well what I mean
You also know these words
You have already made up your mind
 
You seem to know well what I mean
You also know these words
You have already made up your mind
I’m sorry you think I’m just being stubborn, I’m honestly not an unreasonable person, I am more than willing to change my opinion when others show me that it is reasonable to do so. The thing is I have reasons for thinking the way I do, most of which I have already explained, whereas you have, as yet, given me no reason to change my mind, instead you just say that courting is better. Yes I think I understand what you mean by courting, but I have reasons for thinking abou it as i do. I am not going to change what I think just because some random person on the Internet tells me to. 🤷
 
I’m sorry you think I’m just being stubborn, I’m honestly not an unreasonable person, I am more than willing to change my opinion when others show me that it is reasonable to do so. The thing is I have reasons for thinking the way I do, most of which I have already explained, whereas you have, as yet, given me no reason to change my mind, instead you just say that courting is better. Yes I think I understand what you mean by courting, but I have reasons for thinking abou it as i do. I am not going to change what I think just because some random person on the Internet tells me to. 🤷
Hey - there’s nothing wrong with being stubborn! My stubborness keeps me out of a lot of trouble, and gets me in a lot of trouble 😃

So, I think we have to agree on this: Terms do not define our life, our life determines our terms. So the “dating vs. courting” debate is really not important. It’s what happens in each one that is important!

The best relationship is the one that helps you become the best version of yourself and works towards God’s will (look up Matthew Kelly’s “The Best Way to Live” - excellent!) When the relationship makes both of those involved a better person in God, that’s success. 🙂
 
My experience is that many people find their mate during social interactions in which they were not even aware of looking for anyone. Some are even friends for years, sort of drift apart as their lives drift in different directions, and then lo and behold before you know it they are in the same town and the courtship is practically accomplished before it is started. More to the point, there have been sexual situations that come up in life between two people who had not the slightest intention of having that happen. Before it happened, they would have said, “Him/Her? You must be joking! No way! They’re (fill-in supposed disqualifying reason)”

It is prudent to realize that sexual temptation is something that can appear suddenly and in the oddest places, and that regular exposure to it (even mentally) can wear down one’s defenses. The truth is, other things wearing down a person generally can wear down defenses. You can wear yourself out being nice to someone who is odious and find that is the very time your defenses against other assaults on your fidelity to God are the hardest to deal with. We all have to push on to the finish line no matter what our bodies are telling us, but we only have so much “won’t” power in a given day. Better not to find yourself having to push through because you weren’t smart about it and “hit the wall” while still in harm’s way. There is a lot of avoidable suffering there.

Your way of having social interactions with boys is a good one. You feel free to know people as friends, whether boys or girls, but you do it in a situation where you’ll have few opportunities to be hit unawares by temptations which are notorious for their power and speed. I don’t mean to be afraid of the opposite sex, but I do think it is wise to take the sort of precautions we do as a matter of course for other powerful forces of nature, such as water, electricity, fire, direct sunlight, dogs, horses, and so on. These are enriching parts of our lives, we wouldn’t dream hiding from them, but we respect their power and the dangers that we would be prone to if we were to ignore the powers in their basic nature. You don’t wade through flood waters that “aren’t that deep”, you don’t work on toasters without unplugging them, you don’t leave turpentine-soaked rags lying around your shop, you don’t get between a dog and its food, you don’t stand directly in front of or behind a horse, and so on. The same goes with someone of the opposite sex who is both a sexual and a fallable creature. You take basic precautions with your nature in mind, and then you can enjoy the blessings of your basic natures in relative safety. It doesn’t matter if you “aren’t interested”. You do it, anyway, just as you’d be careful around a dog that is “sweet” or a horse that “would never hurt a fly”. You use common sense, which is in notoriously short supply in today’s world of dating.
I LOVE this. Great advice that I really will take to heart. Thank you so much for sharing.
God bless you!
Chloe M.
 
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