Explaining the Trinity to a JW

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Nelka

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I was talking with one at my front door and I mentioned John 10:30 where Jesus said “the Father and I are one”, he gave the worst example of a response ever. (Something about two ice skaters in the distance being one).

So how do you explain it? How to explain that Jesus is equal to God and not subordinate?

Thanks.
 
I don’t think there are any words that would be convincing to a JW at your door on this.

It wouldn’t be the first time that they heard the argument, not just from Catholics but from others. In addition, most JW’s are converts and well schooled, well indoctrinated, even before they find themselves on your doorstep.
 
Agree.

With most JW’s I’ve met there’s too little faith and too little intellect to discuss the Trinity. Their eyes glaze over at any unfamiliar word or idea. Big problem. Lots of scripting and programming and plans in their head, but they can’t entertain and won’t entertain deeper and helpful ideas.
 
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When Jesus was baptized & He came up out of the water we hear the following:

From Matthew 3:13-17 (BibleHub):

The Baptism of Jesus

13Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”

15Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

The thing is that JWs - if I understand their theology correctly - believe that Jesus is a god according to their NWT of the Holy Scriptures & that Jesus is the Archangel Michael…

From the JW Website:

Is Jesus God?


Is Jesus the Archangel Michael? Yes…
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010250

The NWT has been written in such a way that the reference to Jesus as “I AM” in the NT has been altered.

John 8:58 (BibleHub): Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

The NWT renders this same verse as follows:

Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”o

I don’t know if this will help, but it does give some background into their understanding of Jesus.
 
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The JWs are big on the fact that the exact word “Trinity” is not in the Bible and that Jesus Christ did not use the exact words “I am equal to God.”

But there are are number of expressions in the Bible where God is described one way and Jesus is described the same way. For example, God is the Creator; Jesus is the Creator. We are told to worship God; we are told to worship Jesus. God is the Alpha and the Omega; Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. There are many other examples.
 
The things that spring to mind are:
Baptising them in the name of the Father, and if the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Thomas’s declaration ‘my Lord and my God’ and Jesus’s reply, ’ you believe because you can see me…’
‘I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, I was dead and look, I am alive’ from the book of Revelation.
Sorry, I don’t have a bible to hand to quote exactly.
These may not convince the JW but you can ask them how they understand these things.
 
sudy said:
These may not convince the JW but you can ask them how they understand these things.
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That’s the most you can hope for.

The JW at your door is there to sell you on their ideas, not to engage you in “open debate” and entertain new ideas.

Regardless of how airtight your arguments are, you can’t convince the Lincoln salesman that the Cadillac is better ride or the Kirby dealer that the Dyson is a better deal
 
Nelka said:
So are they lost, can they be saved?
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Of course JW’s can have a change of heart.

The sect seems smaller than when I was a kid, people leave the JW’s all the time.

Its just when they are standing at your door, that’s not when they are vulnerable.
 
He came back the other day but I was about to go out and I saw him come along this morning after I had driven away from my house.
 
Your time would be MUCH better spent in just praying for those who reject the faith.
 
‘Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come’ - 2 Corinthians 1:21-22
 
In my experience, coming away from JW belief is a bit like the steady shuffle of pebbles that becomes an avalanche.

If you’re looking for a magic bullet verse, you not only won’t find it, but you’ve already conceded the argument, because that is precisely how the Witnesses are indoctrinated, with incessant, close-minded proof texting.

To reiterate, Witnesses usually escape via a drip-drip-drip of little doubts creeping in. For me, my intellectual spiritual association ended when I read Acts 20.28, which states clearly that God bought the church with His own blood, combined with attending a convention where a key doctrine about the meaning of the word ‘generation’ was changed and I suddenly realized I was being manipulated.

So, if you are having a discussion with a Witness, my advice would be to take it away from back and forth proof texting, and chip away at the foundational misconception of taking a Catholic book (the Bible) and using it to fashion a new religion without any understanding of the context of the scriptures in the communities they come from.
 
I believe last I discussed it with a JW she mentioned John 14:28, “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

They took a more literal interpretation of this passage to mean Jesus was less great than the Father, and as a non-supreme being could not therefore be God.
 
Boy what a rabbit hole. I hope you’ve got some time. My grandmother had a regular appointment with JWs. They thought they were evangelizing her, but she was evangelizing them. This went on for years.
 
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