Explaining the Trinity to a Mormon...though!

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This is one of their most out-of-whack doctrines and I know that, but I was trying to explain the Trinity to a Mormon friend who could just not understand that Jesus was the Word of God and a vessel of The Spirit who all Three work together as the One God coming from the Father. Even after employing St. Patrick’s Shamrock Analogy, she was confounded as to how that was possible. I know the Mormons are polytheist and it annoys me that my friend, who is such an intelligent girl, could be tricked in such a way.

Begging the Holy Spirit for help made the shamrock analogy pop into my head, but she was still confused. I guess it didn’t help that her older sister was sitting right there listening to our conversation, so maybe she was pretending not to accept the idea so she wouldn’t be “shunned” or something.

I told her I would bring her my Compendium of the Catechism so she could read the sections on all three Divine Persons of the Trinity and she seemed enthusiastic.
 
While you’re at it can you explain it to me? I’ve read a few books on the subject and I still sound like a fool everytime I try to explain it coherently.
 
I am a mormon, looking into the Catholic church. The first time I heard the word “Trinity” I had no idea what it was, but my teacher explained it to me patiently so I could understand. Be patient also because I bet this is the first shes heard of the Trinity.

Last I checked, mormons weren’t polytheistic.
 
BumpSetSpike said:
I am a mormon, looking into the Catholic church. The first time I heard the word “Trinity” I had no idea what it was, but my teacher explained it to me patiently so I could understand. Be patient also because I bet this is the first shes heard of the Trinity.

Last I checked, mormons weren’t polytheistic.
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I think it would be more correct to say monotheistic in worship but polytheistic in belief. I think that you will understand my distinction.

On the main point if you need a visual use three matches and unite the flames. When you unite the flames they become one flame and in a sense lose their identity as three individual flames but they are three separate sticks making one flame.

You can also show that it is not contrary to reason by showing that when we speak of the trinity we do not mean:

1+1+1=1 (which is silly)

but rather we mean that:

1X1X1=1

While these are all imperfect analogies they work at some level.

When I teach on the trinity I related it back to us. I show that we all share a single human nature but each of us don’t express it completely in ourselves. If we did then we would have to be both man and woman and have all the colors of eyes and hair and skin and heights etc that man can possibly have. But the difference with God is that each of the three persons completely share the totality of the Divine Nature in such a way that there is no difference between the persons - only the relational distinction.
 
BumpSetSpike said:
I am a mormon, looking into the Catholic church. The first time I heard the word “Trinity” I had no idea what it was, but my teacher explained it to me patiently so I could understand. Be patient also because I bet this is the first shes heard of the Trinity.

Last I checked, mormons weren’t polytheistic.
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BumpSetSpike-

Welcome to CAF.

You might enjoy listening to the Journey Home program.
Espeically the ones that have former Mormons as their guest.

The Journey Home program features different people from different backgrounds and their “Journey Home” to the Catholic Church.

If you click here you can listen to past programs. The second program on the list features an ex-mormon.

If you have cable TV you can watch Journey Home on EWTN, Monday Nights 8 pm Eastern. (check your cable guide for what channel)

If you do not have cable TV you can watch it via Internet if you click here
 
mosher said:
I think it would be more correct to say monotheistic in worship but polytheistic in belief. I think that you will understand my distinction.

On the main point if you need a visual use three matches and unite the flames. When you unite the flames they become one flame and in a sense lose their identity as three individual flames but they are three separate sticks making one flame.

You can also show that it is not contrary to reason by showing that when we speak of the trinity we do not mean:

1+1+1=1 (which is silly)

but rather we mean that:

1X1X1=1

While these are all imperfect analogies they work at some level.

When I teach on the trinity I related it back to us. I show that we all share a single human nature but each of us don’t express it completely in ourselves. If we did then we would have to be both man and woman and have all the colors of eyes and hair and skin and heights etc that man can possibly have. But the difference with God is that each of the three persons completely share the totality of the Divine Nature in such a way that there is no difference between the persons - only the relational distinction.
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Peace be with you,
I’ll use these. Thanks.
 
Frank Sheed has the best explanation I have ever come across.

Here’s how Frank Sheed puts it:

“An idea is, so far as we can make it so, the mental double or image of the object we are contemplating; it expresses as much of that object as we can manage to get into it. Because of the limitation of our powers, the idea we form is never the perfect double or image, never totally expresses the object, in plain words is never totally adequate. But if God does, as we know from Himself that He does, generate an idea of Himself, this idea must be totally adequate, in no way less than the Being of which it is the Idea, lacking nothing that that Being has. The Idea must contain all the perfection of the Being of which it is the Idea. There can be nothing in the Thinker that is not in His Thought of Himself, otherwise the Thinker would be thinking of Himself inadequately, which is impossible for the Infinite. Thus the Idea, the Word that God generates, is Infinite, Eternal, living, a Person, equal in all things to Him who generates It - Someone as He is, conscious of Himself as he is, God as He is.”

“The First Person knows Himself; His act of knowing Himself produces and Idea, a Word; and this Idea, this Word, is the Second Person. The First Person and the Second combine in an act of love - love of one another, love of the glory of the Godhead which is their own; and just as the act of knowing produces an Idea within the Divine Nature, the act of loving produces a state of Lovingness within the Divine Nature. Into this Lovingness, Father and Son pour all that They have and all the They are, with no diminution, nothing held back. Thus this Lovingness within the Godhead is utterly equal to the Father and the Son, for They have poured Their all into it. There is nothing They have which their Lovingness does not have. Thus Their Lovingness too is Infinite, Eternal, Living, Someone, a Person, God. Observe that here again we are still within the Divine Nature. For love is wholly within the nature of the lover. But this love wholly contains the Divine Nature, for God puts the whole of Himself into love.”
(Frank Sheed, Theology and Sanity, pg 66, Sheed & Ward, 1973).
 
Last I checked, mormons weren’t polytheistic
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BumpSetSpike,

Yes, mormons are polytheistic, although they are not pagans who worship multiple gods. Polythiesm, as it is defined by the dictionary is " the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods." Though mormons worship the Heavenly Father, they believe that He was once a man who attained Godhood just as they themselves can become gods of their own planet (not woman, only men). They also believe that Jesus is a separate “god” from the Father and that He was just in the progression of becoming a god while He lived on earth (this goes counter to Hebrews 13:8 which says Jesus was the same yesterday and today and forever- how can something eternally the same be progressing ?)

Remember that the father of all lies used the temptation of being like gods to tempt Eve: "Ye shall not surely die:
5: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. "

The trinity is a mystery that is very difficult to explain and understand. Personally, the “multi-dimension” explanation helped me alot. 1X1X1=1. Catholic Answers has a site which has some excellent information. Also, this article has a lengthy explanation of the Trinity.

All this is said in charity, I am not trying to bash mormons. As a matter of fact, I think the fellowship of the mormons is remarkable. I hope you keep seeking.
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
BumpSetSpike,

Yes, mormons are polytheistic, although they are not pagans who worship multiple gods. Polythiesm, as it is defined by the dictionary is " the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods." Though mormons worship the Heavenly Father, they believe that He was once a man who attained Godhood just as they themselves can become gods of their own planet (not woman, only men). They also believe that Jesus is a separate “god” from the Father and that He was just in the progression of becoming a god while He lived on earth (this goes counter to Hebrews 13:8 which says Jesus was the same yesterday and today and forever- how can something eternally the same be progressing ?)

Remember that the father of all lies used the temptation of being like gods to tempt Eve: "Ye shall not surely die:
5: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. "

The trinity is a mystery that is very difficult to explain and understand. Personally, the “multi-dimension” explanation helped me alot. 1X1X1=1. Catholic Answers has a site which has some excellent information. Also, this article has a lengthy explanation of the Trinity.

All this is said in charity, I am not trying to bash mormons. As a matter of fact, I think the fellowship of the mormons is remarkable. I hope you keep seeking.
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I’ve heard so many non-mormons say that but I’ve never actually heard in myself in church or seminary. I don’t know if they don’t teach it to us because it is so strange, or they sugarcoat it, or if some anti-mormon read something like it in the D&C and flipped the words around.

However, I do feel that if it is a real doctrine it is a pretty odd one. Do you know, by chance, where it is in the D&C? I would like to read it for myself.
 
BumpSetSpike said:
I’ve heard so many non-mormons say that but I’ve never actually heard in myself in church or seminary. I don’t know if they don’t teach it to us because it is so strange, or they sugarcoat it…
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There’s a lot of stuff buried in the archives of the Tabernacle in Salt Lake that they’re not telling you about BumpSetSpike! But that’s a different story for a different day. For now I’d just like to know how I’m supposed to convey this advanced doctrine to a Mormon.
 
I don’t want to completely hijack the thread because it isn’t really about the mormon perspective on God, but rather how to explain the Trinity. However, I feel compelled to list a site that has numerous references of mormon teaching (not just D & C, but other teachings like the pearl of great price, etc). I’ve seen some pretty interesting testamonies by former mormons who say this is a teaching, but that most mormons don’t know it. Hope this has the information you are looking for.
 
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