Explaining the trinity

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Christians are constantly explaining the trinity to non believers, and the topic is constantly been raised on these forums.
Ive taken it upon myself to find sources for people to understand the way the trinity works.
One of our posters here has tried to explain it in many different ways, and he has done a fabulous job, but these explanations are not enough for some people.
Here, i will put links to sites that explain the trinity in extra detail.

New Advent

wikipedia

From Catholic.com:

God in three persons (catholic.com)

The trinity (catholic.com)

Three distinct persons (catholic.com)

Now these are very comprehensive in their explanation, And hopefully will help you understand a little further.
 
I wonder if the Muslims here will take the time to read your links?
 
Sheed also has a good explanation in Theology and Sanity:

katapi.org.uk/TandS/Contents.html

muslims have to get past the mis-charaterization of the Trinity and Christian beliefs in the quran. If they are truly interested in learning about what Christians believe, rather than the lies of islam, they will read.
 
How was the conclusion reached that the Holy Spirit is a distinct person (thus we have a Trinity)? The first mention of the Holy Spirit comes to mind in the Creation in Genesis. It says that the Spirit of God hovered above the waters. Now, since God is One, does it directly follow that His Spirit is “the same” as himslef (I admit this is poorly phrased, but I can’t seem to express the idea any better)?
 
Christians are constantly explaining the trinity to non believers, and the topic is constantly been raised on these forums.
Ive taken it upon myself to find sources for people to understand the way the trinity works.
One of our posters here has tried to explain it in many different ways, and he has done a fabulous job, but these explanations are not enough for some people.
Here, i will put links to sites that explain the trinity in extra detail.

New Advent

wikipedia

From Catholic.com:

God in three persons (catholic.com)

The trinity (catholic.com)

Three distinct persons (catholic.com)

Now these are very comprehensive in their explanation, And hopefully will help you understand a little further.
With your indulgence, I’ve included an explanation from a Lutheran perspective, which probably is essentially the same.

lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/02/display.asp?t1=T&word=TRINITY

Jon
 
The doctrine of the Trinity simply doesn’t make any logical sense. Christians will try their best to explain but when you ask focused questions they remark that the questions we ask are attempting to understand the nature of god which is not possible. The follow-up question is why would god demand from me to believe in something I don’t have the capability to understand? if that’s so then I might as well believe in anything without understanding it.

according to christian belief father, son, spirit are unique individuals, this is further reinforced by phrases such as “the father is not the son”. No matter how you label it, 3 unique individuals do not combine to make 1 entity. They still remain 3 unique beings, 3 unique persons.

Muslims believe that God created the world around us and provided us the faculties of seeing, hearing, understanding so that we may recognize Him and acknowledge Him as our Lord.

The concept of 1 being, 3 persons goes against everything we know about the natural laws in Physics, and science that exists in creation all around us. If God truly wanted us to believe in him as 1 being, 3 persons, then why didn’t he make this an observable phenomenon.

the doctrine of the trinity only exists on paper, it’s a personal belief based on blind faith alone and like playing the lottery, you can’t be saved if you don’t believe, you just hope that you have the winning ticket.
 
The doctrine of the Trinity simply doesn’t make any logical sense. Christians will try their best to explain but when you ask focused questions they remark that the questions we ask are attempting to understand the nature of god which is not possible. The follow-up question is why would god demand from me to believe in something I don’t have the capability to understand? if that’s so then I might as well believe in anything without understanding it.

Gabriel of 12;

So your are the only human being in creation that can understand God himself? Man cannot stand before God lest he die; God took on human flesh so that you can understand why he sacrificed his perfect humanity for you and I. God now resides in our hearts and minds through His Holy Spirit. Thus the Trinity three persons in one God. Now reason is suspended in order to have faith in God, for no one has seen him, except the Son, Jesus. And no one can approach God with out Jesus. IF your God is known only through reason and or creation then your god is a false god. For the One True God supersedes all understanding and reason, that is why we are called to faith in his humanity through his Son Jesus who has revealed the Father to his children to which we cry out “Abba” Father.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God, and the Word of God became flesh in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit reveals these mysteries to our hearts and mind, we do not lean upon our own understanding but on him who reveals all things.

famdigy;
according to christian belief father, son, spirit are unique individuals, this is further reinforced by phrases such as “the father is not the son”. No matter how you label it, 3 unique individuals do not combine to make 1 entity. They still remain 3 unique beings, 3 unique persons.

Gabriel of 12;
You misunderstand this mystery; For one to succumb to the faith in this mystery that can never be exhausted by the human intellect; has to die to pride, oneself, and the world. So long as one remains in the world, will continue to think as the world does and not as God does.

famdigy;
Muslims believe that God created the world around us and provided us the faculties of seeing, hearing, understanding so that we may recognize Him and acknowledge Him as our Lord.

The concept of 1 being, 3 persons goes against everything we know about the natural laws in Physics, and science that exists in creation all around us. If God truly wanted us to believe in him as 1 being, 3 persons, then why didn’t he make this an observable phenomenon.

Gabriel of 12;
God did, through his Son Jesus of whom you deny, and his Holy Spirit of whom teaches and reveals to us the things of God. If your intellect remains to things of creation, so will your belief’s in a god of this world. If your god can be explained by Physics and science, then your god is part of creation not the Creator?

famdigy;
the doctrine of the trinity only exists on paper, it’s a personal belief based on blind faith alone and like playing the lottery, you can’t be saved if you don’t believe, you just hope that you have the winning ticket.
Gabriel of 12;
I dont know where you get your information of the Blessed Trinity only exists on paper? when God lives and is alive in the hearts and minds of men, not paper? Catholics teach there is more than just believing to be saved, for even the devil and his demons believe in Jesus, yet these are damned eternally, not saved for believing.

Peace be with you
 
** The doctrine of the Trinity simply doesn’t make any logical sense.**

That’s because you are approaching the doctrine with an unregenerate mind, since you follow a religion founded by a pedophile.

First thing: God begets. Deal with this truth now in this life, or you’ll have all eternity to deal with it with the peculiar clarity that hell affords when it won’t do you any good.

God begets. He begets His Son without mother in heaven before all ages, and therefore the Son is of the same essence as Himself, and therefore God.

The Spirit proceeds from God, and so is of the same essence as God, and therefore God.

We experience the three persons (a word with a technical philosophical and theological meaning) by faith in prayer and sacrament.
 
How was the conclusion reached that the Holy Spirit is a distinct person (thus we have a Trinity)? The first mention of the Holy Spirit comes to mind in the Creation in Genesis. It says that the Spirit of God hovered above the waters. Now, since God is One, does it directly follow that His Spirit is “the same” as himslef (I admit this is poorly phrased, but I can’t seem to express the idea any better)?
It was explained to me that the love between the Father and Son is so powerful, that it is an entity unto itself. That’s awesome!
 
The concept of 1 being, 3 persons goes against everything we know about the natural laws in Physics, and science that exists in creation all around us. If God truly wanted us to believe in him as 1 being, 3 persons, then why didn’t he make this an observable phenomenon.

the doctrine of the trinity only exists on paper, it’s a personal belief based on blind faith alone and like playing the lottery, you can’t be saved if you don’t believe, you just hope that you have the winning ticket.
Science has yet to explain how the universe works, has yet to explain the existence of “Dark Matter” and “Dark Energy” - i believe them to be God’s energy at work. As you said, its a personal belief - Who knows? One day, i may be right. Just because you do not understand the concept of the Trinity, does not render it invalid. It can make sense, you just have to think out of the box.
 
Science has yet to explain how the universe works, has yet to explain the existence of “Dark Matter” and “Dark Energy” - i believe them to be God’s energy at work. As you said, its a personal belief - Who knows? One day, i may be right. Just because you do not understand the concept of the Trinity, does not render it invalid. It can make sense, you just have to think out of the box.
Cath, many Christians I spoke to do not understand the trinity. how is it possible to have 1 being in 3 persons. would you agree it is unjust of God to require me to believe in something which I’m not capable of understanding?
 
If God had one Person, He would be a creature, and if He had two Persons, He would be a demi-god, and if three Persons, He would be God, and if four Persons, He would be the Universe.

But more then this, God has three Persons because God is real. And He has three Persons because He is good. And He has three Persons because He is perfect. Any more or less Persons and God would not be real, nor good, or perfect.
 
I believe it was St. Augustine of Hippo who compared the Trinity to the functions of the Mind. The mind, according to him, consists of memory, intellect, and will. All three are distinct from one another, yet they are all part of the mind.
 
=famdigy;4960119] The follow-up question is why would god demand from me to believe in something I don’t have the capability to understand? if that’s so then I might as well believe in anything without understanding it.
In my case I first had to believe in order to give God the opportunity to help me with my understanding. I thought I didn’t have the capability to understand the Trinity either, but He showed me in parts what the Trinity really is.
The concept of 1 being, 3 persons goes against everything we know about the natural laws in Physics, and science that exists in creation all around us. If God truly wanted us to believe in him as 1 being, 3 persons, then why didn’t he make this an observable phenomenon.
I did some physics at uni. Never much understood it. How I passed was a miracle. But one day God started to show me his type of physics and it was the supernatural world. But God sent his son to us. Christ. Christ leads us to the Father and the Holy Spirit is love between the Father and the Son and that love joins us in a greater understanding of the relationship between the Son and the Father so that one in themselves can if they are willing, be given an understanding of the True God and that is God as three in one. But as a muslim, you don’t believe in Christ or the Holy Spirit. God has given mankind the opportunity to know the True God, the three in one aspect of God. He has given us this phenomenon, and it is observable in one’s heart and one’s mind. That is why he set up his Church. The Catholic Church, the universal Church has the fullness that your religion does not contain. The Catholic Church has the means for you to know the True God as he really is, and that is a God who is both the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
the doctrine of the trinity only exists on paper, it’s a personal belief based on blind faith alone and like playing the lottery, you can’t be saved if you don’t believe, you just hope that you have the winning ticket.
It doesn’t just exist on paper. It isn’t something the Church decided was a good idea to write about. Three years ago I didn’t have a clue was the Trinity was. It was an alien concept. But when I really converted to Christ in my heart by God’s grace as I became a believer more and more and applied Faith and Love to that belief, God showed me the fuller aspects of himself, and that was the three in one. I’ve had experiences with the Holy Spirit, with Christ and with the Father. Each aspect of the Trinity revealed themselves to me in some way. I sought to understand more. If I didn’t understand something, with Faith I threw it up to God and with some patience, he helped my understanding.

The Holy Spirit guides the Church. The Trinity is something that has been revealed to the Church and it is something that many individuals in the Church have not just believed in, but have had various experiences of.

Many times we only know what others have taught us, or what only we are prepared to believe. As a muslim you know the God that you are taught. As a Catholic I know the God of the Trinity. As a Catholic I was given the chance to know how God is three in one, and blessed to have some experiences of each aspect of that one as they are individuals. But without Faith and Belief, I would have stagnated.

I have an understanding because I was willing to seek to know God more and more. I have been blessed to have been given experiences and a greater understanding because I was willing to first believe, then have Faith, and to seek from Him who he really is. He is not just God, he is so much more. He is three.

If you struggle to believe what we teach on paper, why don’t you do what many others have done, and pray for greater understanding. Tell Him you want to know Him more. Apply Faith and Love to that seeking.

Christ said seek and you shall find. If you aren’t willing to first try it, you won’t know. And many choose to not know, or choose to only stay with what they know so far or what has been taught to them so far. If it sounds too hard to understand to a human mind, then many times humans tune out.

If you have difficulty understanding the True nature of God, then it is highly likely that is because you due to your religion, only believe in God as God and not God as three, and due to your religion which does not believe Christ is the son of God, that Christ is both divine and was human, you won’t avail yourself of the opportunity to allow the Son of God to lead you to a greater understanding of the Trinity.

If we choose to believe something is incapable of our understanding, and incapable of God leading us to a greater understanding, then we will stay blind and we will stop seeking to know the True God more.
 
I believe it was St. Augustine of Hippo who compared the Trinity to the functions of the Mind. The mind, according to him, consists of memory, intellect, and will. All three are distinct from one another, yet they are all part of the mind.
What else does he say? What does he say about memory? I am finding as I get more in tune with the Trinity, the memory is what crops up sometimes. It is like I remember the Lord in ways I cannot explain. Like my soul remembers.

What does St Augustine say about memory Ora?
 
What else does he say? What does he say about memory? I am finding as I get more in tune with the Trinity, the memory is what crops up sometimes. It is like I remember the Lord in ways I cannot explain. Like my soul remembers.

What does St Augustine say about memory Ora?
The only work by St. Augustine that I’ve ever read completely was his Confessions, so I think it was there, in the final books of it, that I read about this. The analogy that springs to mind is that of wanting to play a piece of music. Say you know how to play a musical instrument. Your memory provides you your past experiences, all the training and practicing that has come before. Your intellect takes all these past things and applies them to the present, like reading the sheet music and making sense out of it. The will is what “makes” you either play or not play; even recalling your past experiences and being able to understand the piece of music before you you may will NOT to play it. So, as you can see, all 3 must be working together to play the instrument.

As for more specific comments on memory, check out the Confessions (which is available on wikisource). There are quite a few chapters of the last books dedicated to it.

I hope that was of some help to you.
 
The only work by St. Augustine that I’ve ever read completely was his Confessions, so I think it was there, in the final books of it, that I read about this. The analogy that springs to mind is that of wanting to play a piece of music. Say you know how to play a musical instrument. Your memory provides you your past experiences, all the training and practicing that has come before. Your intellect takes all these past things and applies them to the present, like reading the sheet music and making sense out of it. The will is what “makes” you either play or not play; even recalling your past experiences and being able to understand the piece of music before you you may will NOT to play it. So, as you can see, all 3 must be working together to play the instrument.

As for more specific comments on memory, check out the Confessions (which is available on wikisource). There are quite a few chapters of the last books dedicated to it.

I hope that was of some help to you.
Yes thankyou. I’ve got a book called Confessions of St Augustine, then underneath it says Spiritual Meditations and Divine Insight. Is this the same book? I’ve never read it, I forgot I had it in my bookshelf.
 
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