Explanation Please

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brina1416

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I was talking with my friend who is a cradle Catholic but he’s been studying the Seven Day Aventists church. He’s been going to their church and going to their bible studies. The other night we got in to this debate about Sabbath, infant baptisms, and how the Catholic Church doesn’t follow the Bible. I gave him some information but he still doesn’t understand some things. Mark 16:16 says whoever believes will be baptized and whoever doesn’t will not. How do I explain that it’s acceptable to baptize babies?
 
If Baptism is so important … that one is becomes a new creation …that one is baptized into the death of Christ and rises with him…if one is regenerated…if one is “in Christ” …
then one would want this for ones children.

Remember in the first part of Acts Peter says:

“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

And the Jews whom he was speaking to most likely had some infants! And being Jews – they would have known that infants can become part of the covenant! It would have been presumed.

And there is certainly nothing stating that children and infants could not be baptized.

And in fact we find in Acts ENTIRE HOUSEHOLDS being baptized. One can very easily assume there will be some little ones in those households! Otherwise it would not have said “entire”.
Households was a term encompassing children and infants as well as servants.

Acts 16

Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family.

One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. 15 And after she was baptized, and her household …

Furthermore one finds explicit reference to infants being baptized as early as the 2nd century (AD 100’s) and repeated from them on in the writings of the Christians.

And it should be noted that when these Whole households were baptized – including it can be well presumed infants --the faith of the Parents and the faith of the Church was there for the Infant. Then when he grew up …he would live his faith and baptism.

Just as in the old covenant – the parents would bring their sons into the covenant with God as infants --so to the Christians. We profess Faith on behalf of our Children – as does the Body of Christ the Church.

As Jesus said “let the children come to me and do not prevent them…”

Some examples of Early Christian writings from the third century on this are:

“Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them” (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

"The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]). Origen

Just as we speak for our children in many things before they can speak for themselves…Christians can speak and the Church as a body can speak for those who can not speak yet for themselves. And give them the great gift of as Paul puts it “being in Christ” --of union with Jesus Christ the Lord! And Faith too is given too at Baptism by the Holy Spirit. Then in life they will grow from the earliest age in their relationship with Jesus their Lord.
 
brina1416 said:
I was talking with my friend who is a cradle Catholic but he’s been studying the Seven Day Aventists church. He’s been going to their church and going to their bible studies. The other night we got in to this debate about Sabbath, infant baptisms, and how the Catholic Church doesn’t follow the Bible. I gave him some information but he still doesn’t understand some things. Mark 16:16 says whoever believes will be baptized and whoever doesn’t will not. How do I explain that it’s acceptable to baptize babies?
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A little history. The SDA began when a man believed he had figured out the year during which the Lord Jesus would return. He convinced a lot of people to join him - they sold their farms and quit their jobs and went out and waited for the Second Coming. When it didn’t happen, he and several of his advisors revised their theories to show why they weren’t wrong. Among other things they decided that the reason Jesus hadn’t come back was because Christians weren’t doing what they were supposed to be doing - that the Church had corrupted the true faith. They decided that if they could convince enough people to worship and live the way they said, THEN Jesus would return.

Essentially the SDA are Judaizers, just like the ones that we have been hearing about in the Sunday readings this month - they believe that in addition to believing in Jesus, Christians must keep the Jewish laws.

SDAs reject the authority Jesus gave to His Apostles to make determinations about the faith - things like worshipping on the day of the Resurrection and whether or not Christians are obligated to keep the Jewish law - and, not incidentally, what books are in the Bible, especially the New Testament. So it is utterly laughable that they claim Catholics don’t follow the Bible, when Catholics wrote and preserved and defined the Bible. Without the authority of the Church they wouldn’t have a Bible to beat up on us with.

But - it’s not really a laughing matter, because they can and will draw people out of the Church and into their man-made religion, especially people who are not very well educated about their own faith. The best thing you can do with your friend is not to argue over individual bits and pieces but to get together and do a Catholic Bible Study. Let him discover for himself the truth of the Apostolic church, and those SDA arguments will stop sounding so reasonable.
 
NHInsider said:
A little history. The SDA began when a man believed he had figured out the year during which the Lord Jesus would return. He convinced a lot of people to join him - they sold their farms and quit their jobs and went out and waited for the Second Coming. When it didn’t happen, he and several of his advisors revised their theories to show why they weren’t wrong.
Click to expand...
Sort of like what Joseph Smith did to gain members to his “group”. Bring your friend to one of our Bible studies. The SDA’s are supposed to be open-minded, so if he is so open minded maybe he’ll change his views! But, also ask him to explain some passages that are direct proof for things he doesn’t believe in…he’ll be stumped. May I also suggest printing off some tracts from CAF store.
 
Dismantling the errors of the SDA cult is easy.
Winning him back to the Church is something different.

My guess is he was lonely.
 
brina1416 said:
I was talking with my friend who is a cradle Catholic but he’s been studying the Seven Day Aventists church. He’s been going to their church and going to their bible studies. The other night we got in to this debate about Sabbath, infant baptisms, and how the Catholic Church doesn’t follow the Bible. I gave him some information but he still doesn’t understand some things. Mark 16:16 says whoever believes will be baptized and whoever doesn’t will not. How do I explain that it’s acceptable to baptize babies?
Click to expand...
Salvation is a free undeserved gift. We do not earn the gift of salvation. Therefore, even infants, who have done nothing to deserve or earn salvation, may be given salvation by Baptism.
 
brina1416 said:
I was talking with my friend who is a cradle Catholic but he’s been studying the Seven Day Aventists church. He’s been going to their church and going to their bible studies. The other night we got in to this debate about Sabbath, infant baptisms, and how the Catholic Church doesn’t follow the Bible. I gave him some information but he still doesn’t understand some things. Mark 16:16 says whoever believes will be baptized and whoever doesn’t will not. How do I explain that it’s acceptable to baptize babies?
Click to expand...
brina

if I may add

The seed if planted on good ground, will grow, therefore little children can be good ground. Who is there to say they are not? And who is to say that the Power of God’s Presence can not be received in any child, regardless of age. Fools seek to interpret for the justification of their own judgement. But it is the Lord that judges the living and the dead. Is not the infant living and breathing? Then it would have to be a fool that dare think that when Jesus said:

Mat:18

4: Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5: And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6: But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8: Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10: Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11: For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

How much does one need to know to understand that?

Never prevent anything that would let a child come to know God in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit, would have to be better then deciding whether a child should be baptized or not. If you baptize then you have not prevented. For in Faith has the Child been put in God’s Hands, how can that be incorrect?
 
The verse if very clear and easy to understand

Mark 16: 16 says

Douay-Rheims Bible
He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned

It is of course fitting to baptise babies because as the verse says the person must “believeth”. Thus the parents that believe must baptise their child and the child will be saved.

As the bible says, if they do not do that that child will be condemned to the flames of purgatory. Just reason on the basis of the verse and your friend should understand.
 
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