Explanation the Church's position in condoms

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seeker63:
Secular types unfortunately believe abstinence is unnatural. It really bothers me that most people seem to believe that sexual activity is a given, that it is a force that cannot and should not be controlled, that once a person reaches a certain age, he or she will almost certainly have sex.
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This is not true. 30 years ago people thought homosexuality was rare and unnatural, they were simple misinformed. Now, the celibates and asexuals are ‘coming out’ and claiming their rightful place as well.

How does that make you feel, that anstinance is a natural choice for some people?

Amongst those who study human sexuality it has been known for a long time that the variation is extrodinary, even with reports of people finding paving stones arousing. These scholars have recognised that just as many people are bisexual, and some are exclusively homosexual and some do not have sex at all.

The fact this knowledge is rare is not down to secularism (how easy to blame that, rather than actually check your facts ), but down to the fact it generally takes about 30-50 years for accumulated knowledge to be gathered, examined, tested, re-tested, found to be true and then put in to books . Only then does it enter common knowledge through the educational system.

This same process eliminates false knowedge from a system.

Surprisingly it has been discovered that abstinance/celibacy extends across species. What moral lesson can you draw from that? Animals refuse to have sex and breed? What can this mean?
 
The acceptance of such behaviors is most certainly due to secularism.
 
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ega:
Surprisingly it has been discovered that abstinance/celibacy extends across species. What moral lesson can you draw from that? Animals refuse to have sex and breed? What can this mean?
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Does instinct ring a bell?
 
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ega:
It helps to know the position yourself, inside and outside.

The churches current postion is that sex exists as a conduit for reproduction and that new life always has preference over old life. Contraception is said to be wrong because it stops the potential for new life. The only contraceptive method allowed, the rythm method, is very, very unreliable, so its ability to interfere with ‘Gods plan’ is considered minor.

Condoms, if properly used are near 100% effective (98%!) and at that rate is deemed contrary to Gods plan.

Regarding lives saved, the churchs’ current position is that sex outside marriage is sinful, and the wages of sin are death. Those who have sex outside of marriage are morally culpable for any disease they catch, and their demise. Thus, the church is being moral when it demands followers abstain from sex and do not use condoms.

When high-ups claims condoms have tiny holes in them, are pre-infected with HIV, or provide no protection at all they are telling lies, and unfortunately change the ancient slander against the catholics into truth.

That slander is in Romans 3:8 as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”?

It is the judgement of the church that preganacy must have a greater than 2% chance during sex.

it is the judgement of the church that all abortions are worthwhile over the use of family planning because the blame and the sin falls to the individuals.

It is the judgement of the church that prevention of death, the orphaning of children, and the destruction of villages and societies is a worthy cost for its opposition to condom use.

For those of you who say “condoms are not 100% effective” and use this as an argument, you must admit that 98% is a pretty close second.

Finally, we all fall back into sin. No one is free. You and I will fail.

The church knows this as well. But the wages of sin are death…
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Do you think anyone here accepts your agit prop? Lies and misinformation are as transparent as the agenda you preach.
 
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fix:
Do you think anyone here accepts your agit prop? Lies and misinformation are as transparent as the agenda you preach.
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They dont need to accept it, they simply need to know what the arguments are.

It is easy to point and cry ‘liar’, pity you didnt go and do proper research.
 
The seven deadly sins: pride, envy, anger, sloth, greed, gluttony, and lust.

These are animal urges or instinct. Religion is what prevents us from acting on these urges even if we could profit from the action.

An atheist operating in a vacuum would act on these base instincts. You do not because you have definitely been influenced in your upbringing by religion.
 
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ega:
The churches current postion is that sex exists as a conduit for reproduction and that new life always has preference over old life. Contraception is said to be wrong because it stops the potential for new life.
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Reference for this statement, please?
The only contraceptive method allowed, the rythm method, is very, very unreliable, so its ability to interfere with ‘Gods plan’ is considered minor.
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Rhythm? It has been more than 30 years since the rhythm method has been supplanted by more accurate methods.
Condoms, if properly used are near 100% effective (98%!) and at that rate is deemed contrary to Gods plan.
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The rate? The Church’s position on this has nothing to do with effectiveness.

. . .
When high-ups claims condoms have tiny holes in them, are pre-infected with HIV, or provide no protection at all they are telling lies, and unfortunately change the ancient slander against the catholics into truth.
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Source, please?
That slander is in Romans 3:8 as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”?
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You’ve lost me.
It is the judgement of the church that preganacy must have a greater than 2% chance during sex.
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Source please?
it is the judgement of the church that all abortions are worthwhile over the use of family planning because the blame and the sin falls to the individuals.

It is the judgement of the church that prevention of death, the orphaning of children, and the destruction of villages and societies is a worthy cost for its opposition to condom use.

For those of you who say “condoms are not 100% effective” and use this as an argument, you must admit that 98% is a pretty close second.

Finally, we all fall back into sin. No one is free. You and I will fail.

The church knows this as well. But the wages of sin are death…
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This concatenation of allegations is perhaps the most cynical and bizarre view of the Catholic position I have ever seen. Not to mention incorrect. The hopelessness is almost beyond comprehension.
 
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mercygate:
Reference for this statement, please?

Rhythm? It has been more than 30 years since the rhythm method has been supplanted by more accurate methods.
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Two contraceptive methods are accepted by the Church, the time barrier and withdrawal method. Both are very unreliable.
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mercygate:
The rate? The Church’s position on this has nothing to do with effectiveness…
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Afraid it is. By ‘coincidence’ the methods they approve of have a massive failure rate. It is effective contraception that the church doesnt like.
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mercygate:
. . .
Source, please?
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The vaticans stance on contraception is a deep secret…NOT!
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mercygate:
You’ve lost me.
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It istn complicated. When men of the cloth lie about condoms spreading AIDS, they are committing evil, the good they imagine is that new life will have its chances.
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mercygate:
This concatenation of allegations is perhaps the most cynical and bizarre view of the Catholic position I have ever seen. Not to mention incorrect. The hopelessness is almost beyond comprehension.
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Save me from people who dont know what their church preaches.
 
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ega:
They dont need to accept it, they simply need to know what the arguments are.

It is easy to point and cry ‘liar’, pity you didnt go and do proper research.
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Absurd statements do not require refutations. The onus is on the one making the claims to provide references.
 
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ega:
Two contraceptive methods are accepted by the Church, the time barrier and withdrawal method. Both are very unreliable.
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“Withdrawal” is a grave sin as taught by the CC.
By ‘coincidence’ the methods they approve of have a massive failure rate. It is effective contraception that the church doesnt like.
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False. Plenty of studies are available to refute this.
The vaticans stance on contraception is a deep secret…NOT!
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Uh yeah, try starting with the CCC, with footnotes, before claiming knowledge of such teaching.
It istn complicated. When men of the cloth lie about condoms spreading AIDS, they are committing evil, the good they imagine is that new life will have its chances.
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Truth is hate, to those who hate truth.
Save me from people who dont know what their church preaches.
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Keep setting them up and we will continue to knock 'em down.
 
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ega:
Two contraceptive methods are accepted by the Church, the time barrier and withdrawal method. Both are very unreliable.
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Withdrawal? Not on your life! Show me one official document where the Church approves of coitus interruptus.
Afraid it is. By ‘coincidence’ the methods they approve of have a massive failure rate. It is effective contraception that the church doesnt like.
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No. The Church does not “like” ANY contraception. The Church does allow birth control. It does not allow contraception. Two different things.
The vaticans stance on contraception is a deep secret…NOT!

It istn complicated. When men of the cloth lie about condoms spreading AIDS, they are committing evil, the good they imagine is that new life will have its chances.

Save me from people who dont know what their church preaches.
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ega, you did not provide a single source for any of your statements. I’m not from Missouri but I want to know where you got this stuff. I have read a pretty fair amount from Catholic sources on this subject. Never have I heard of “high ups” teaching that condoms are infected with AIDS. Frankly, that is utter rot!
 
From the Catechism

2370. "Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self- observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.[HV 16.] These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, ‘every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible’ is intrinsically evil:[HV 14.]
Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality… The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.[FC 32.]"
 
ega, I am glad you are here. You will learn what the Catholic Church truly teaches from some very knowledgeable posters. It is sad that you have been swayed by other sources, without checking them out from reliable Catholic sources. You will definately get the Truth here.

Give it your best shot but remember Charity above all.
 
Ask him if he thinks it is good for the person that gets conned, fooled, and bagged!

He doesnt believe that for a minute even if he tries to say otherwise. I would bet anything that he becomes angry anytime he gets conned or cheated!
 
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