Explicit pregnancy sex question

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The answer is that the couple need to abstain until the doctor gives the go ahead to resume marital relations.

The other suggestion would not be the marital act (and would be sinful).

The couple simply need to wait.
*
And enjoy the new baby and sleepless nights staring at the crying little bundle of joy.*
 
LaSainte said:
Hehe. Thanks I think 🙂

Yes, the question is probably best left unanswered. I guess I just want to know what is permitted. I mean, I know it’s permitted to use a perforated condom for the collection of a semen sample, so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be allowed for the man to ejaculate somewhere else and then ensure that SOME or MOST of the semen make it into the vagina. It seems like the exact same thing to me, if not quite for identical reasons.
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Ah, but the big difference between using a perforated condom to collect semen and what you seem to be asking about is that vaginal intercourse is still happening in the proper unitive way when using the perforated condom, whereas you seem to be asking if the semen can be ejaculated “somewhere else” and then somehow artificially put into the vagina. Unfortunately that disrupts the unitive aspect of sex. I think really there’s only two options: abstain or very shallow penetration.
 
Alix1912 said:
May I ask, why is sexual release (when it is uncomfortable, or against medical recommendations to actually have sex) so important? Seriously people can survive a couple months without sex.

As for not putting semen in the vagina after labor and delivery…it is a foreign substance, which can carry germs into an environment that is still healing from at the least a major medical event, or in the case of a c-section surgery. Would you rub semen on an open wound somewhere else in the body? Probably not.
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C-sections do not involve the vagina, but your point about abstainance is spot on.
LaSainte said:
Hehe. Thanks I think 🙂

Yes, the question is probably best left unanswered. I guess I just want to know what is permitted. I mean, I know it’s permitted to use a perforated condom for the collection of a semen sample, so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be allowed for the man to ejaculate somewhere else and then ensure that SOME or MOST of the semen make it into the vagina. It seems like the exact same thing to me, if not quite for identical reasons.
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Actually it has been answered; such is not permitted.

IF ejaculation outside the vagina (except and “oops”) was licit, then Artificial insemination would be perfectly OK (from frozen/preserved semen, etc.) One needs, however, to understand that fertilization needs to take place as intended; from ejaculation into the vagina as designed.

Perforated condom use for semen evaluation is still genital-genital intercourse, which is “required” for the marital act to be unitive. Otherwise, it is masturbation with artificial insemination.
 
Newbie2 said:
C-sections do not involve the vagina, but your point about abstainance is spot on.
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Yes but a C-section still involves the placenta seperating from the uterine wall, which is the cause of the bleeding afterwards. It is essentially an open wound. Semen should not be introduced into that environment. Also you are dealing with and incision that goes all the way through to the uterus. Again not an environment for semen.
 
LaSainte said:
In the last month or so of pregnancy, vaginal sex is rather uncomfortable. Also, a c-section has a rather long recovery time, meaning at 2-3 months of abstinence, give or take.

My question is this: Can the semen be deposited elsewhere during the act if it is immediately placed into the vaginal opening, making sex procreative but not painful?

If so, would this be permitted at other times as well?

Why or why not?
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The answer is this, LaSainte:

What you describe, is indeed still considered a sin.

It doesn’t have to make any logical sense as to why, and it doesn’t.

The teaching goes as follows - you must finish every sexual act with the penis ejecting into the vagina during penetration. It doesn’t have to make sense as to why we can’t do what you describe (which would still be “open to life” or whatever), we just have to understand that sex must be done in a very specific way. And if it is not, we are put in state of mortal sin.

:rolleyes:
 
Debora123 said:
The answer is this, LaSainte:

What you describe, is indeed still considered a sin.

It doesn’t have to make any logical sense as to why, and it doesn’t.

The teaching goes as follows - you must finish every sexual act with the penis ejecting into the vagina during penetration. It doesn’t have to make sense as to why we can’t do what you describe (which would still be “open to life” or whatever), we just have to understand that sex must be done in a very specific way. And if it is not, we are put in state of mortal sin.

:rolleyes:
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How about logistically looking at it this way:

Sexual intercourse is Holy because the possibility of this relation is the conception of a child, with an eternal soul. God intended children to be conceived this way.

If it is Holy, why would we want to profane it by changing it and making it “technically” procreative while limiting the “unitive”

Could you imagine going to Mass, and the priest instead of using the Eucharistic prayers at the liturgy of the Eucharist and saying, “Ok bread turn into Jesus”?
 
The Teachings regarding marriage are very beautiful teachings and very rich. Yes in order for marital relations to occur…certain things need to occur (known to the birds and the bees). The Church expresses it in very beautiful language …for the mystery of human marital love is a great gift.
 
Alix1912 said:
Yes but a C-section still involves the placenta seperating from the uterine wall, which is the cause of the bleeding afterwards. It is essentially an open wound. Semen should not be introduced into that environment. Also you are dealing with and incision that goes all the way through to the uterus. Again not an environment for semen.
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When you think of it, the placenta separating from the uterine wall is not different than with a natural birth, with an open cervix (which stays open to allow for post-partum drainage.

While semen is essentiall sterile, the “delivery system” of the semen is not; I’d be more concerned about resident bacteria on the male parts as well as the potential for increased intrabdominal pressure and suture dehissance as a result…secondary to the mechanics and “positioning” necessary for the act. :eek:

I guess we’re dancing around the whole moral issue with medical technicalities, and are pretty much in agreement that post-cesarian sexual intercourse is not a good idea for a number of medically definable reasons.
 
Debora123 said:
The answer is this, LaSainte:

What you describe, is indeed still considered a sin.

It doesn’t have to make any logical sense as to why, and it doesn’t.

The teaching goes as follows - you must finish every sexual act with the penis ejecting into the vagina during penetration. It doesn’t have to make sense as to why we can’t do what you describe (which would still be “open to life” or whatever), we just have to understand that sex must be done in a very specific way. And if it is not, we are put in state of mortal sin.

:rolleyes:
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Yep. That’s about the size of it 🙂
 
TrueLight said:
Wow.

Is the church really involved in these minutiae?
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If a woman is not able to have marital relations …well she is not able. So the couple needs to abstain until she is able (Chastity as always…being observed accordingly). When she is able (like a doctor says she is healed) then they may resume marital relations. Such would not be in the area minutiae but is part of the realities of marriage and birth (which some may not always realize so moral theology etc needs get into even these things).

Such is for the health of the woman and the good of the couple.
 
Bookcat said:
If a woman is not able to have marital relations …well she is not able. So the couple needs to abstain until she is able (Chastity as always…being observed accordingly). When she is able (like a doctor says she is healed) then they may resume marital relations. Such would not be in the area minutiae but is part of the realities of marriage and birth (which some may not always realize so moral theology etc needs get into even these things).

Such is for the health of the woman and the good of the couple.
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I totally understand that (I’m a mother).

But we’re also talking about in the final month of pregnancy as well and some people can have sex then.

If it’s impossible to get pregnant then, must the sperm end up in the vagina?
 
TrueLight said:
If it’s impossible to get pregnant then, must the sperm end up in the vagina?
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Yes, for the same reason that NFP is permissible. The act must be conducted in such a way that under normal circumstances pregnancy might occur, even if in practical terms it is unlikely or even impossible.
 
TrueLight said:
I totally understand that (I’m a mother).

But we’re also talking about in the final month of pregnancy as well and some people can have sex then.

If it’s impossible to get pregnant then, must the sperm end up in the vagina?
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Sure…that would be the doctors call (and the parents…for they can judge to play safer than the what the doctor judges… for one reason or another).

As to the second question…yes. It is to be marital relations.

Similarly the same goes for those who are infertile or who are past the normal child bearing years and can not thus conceive.
 
TrueLight said:
I totally understand that (I’m a mother).

But we’re also talking about in the final month of pregnancy as well and some people can have sex then.

If it’s impossible to get pregnant then, must the sperm end up in the vagina?
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I know, I don’t get it either. I think it’s a slippery slope argument basically. If you allow even pregnant women to have sex where the semen don’t end up in the vagina, then pretty soon you have gay men having oral sex on street corners and people having sex with sheep or something. Once this one rule is violated, inthink the Church sees all of the other rules about sex collapsing like a house of cards.
 
Equites_Christi said:
Yes, for the same reason that NFP is permissible. The act must be conducted in such a way that under normal circumstances pregnancy might occur, even if in practical terms it is unlikely or even impossible.
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Exactly, that why Church documents use the term “ordered toward procreation”. This is not the same as fertile acts or procreative acts. Sexual acts that are not ordered toward procreation are not truly the marriage act.

The marriage must be “open to life”, the act must be “ordered toward procreation”.
 
The martial act has a particular nature. Just as marriage as a particular nature. The Church speaks beautifully about both. Certain realities have certain necessary aspects. If they are not there…the reality is not there.

If one does not have a single man and a single woman give consent etc there is not marriage. A single man and a single man can never marry, not matter how consent they give and no matter how many States pass laws saying that they do. A cat has particular cat qualities as does a dog. No matter how many near sighted people mistake a cat that is far off for a dog…it does is not a dog.
 
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