Exploring Bahaism

[Servant19]

Good point!! Also I’d like to add the Baha’i belief that creation had no beginning " The process of His creation hath had no beginning, and can have no end."

It had been scientifically established that there was a beginning described as the ‘Big Bang’

Not only what Tony said above, but since when is “Creation” the physical universe??

What is your understanding of what is the Kingdom, Jimmy?
Is the Kingdom of heaven not eternal? Is the Kingdom of heaven reliant on the Big Bang? Is the Kingdom of heaven not part of God’s infinite Creation?

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[Servant19]

You would think that people who proclaim Jesus so much would be rejoicing that the Lord has risen.

We indeed rejoice, for through Him, we have heaven. Through His Resurrection, the doors of heaven were opened up, and as has already been established, heaven is not a physical place, and neither is hell, all according to Catholic teaching…

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[JimmyDFG]

As much as I like to agree with you Jimmy, and while the Baha’i Faith does not categorically deny an experience that was indeed as physical as it gets for the Apostles when they witnessed the risen Jesus, one cannot accept that a physical resurrection is Biblical.

If the body was raised a physical body, Paul would simply state, “it is sown a physical body, it is raised a physical body”

What you are asserting is a twisting of Paul’s clear words…

Yes he is saying “it”, because the human IDENTITY is not changed. The human identity remains. The human identity (IT) is sown with the physical body at death, and IT (the human identity/reality) is raised as a SPIRITUAL reality/identity.
This changing of our “garment”, if you like, is no different to the changing of our “garment” when we transition from the umbilical cord and placenta dependent identity in the womb, to the sensory being with no placenta or umbilicus in this body.

The critical aspect to Christianity which I believe to be a mistake is that the human being is intended to have an incorruptible soul (which is compliant with all major global religions) AND an incorruptible body. Where did this assumption come from?

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I understand your blatant objection Servant because the Baha’i faith hinges on the belief that Christ’s Resurrection was not physical. How else would this so called “manifestion of god” happen. It certainly wouldn’t happen if his body had risen.

Thanks for your little assumption on what Paul meant. But you’re the one that’s twisting his words. Do you think the Apostles are liars when they attest to Jesus’ resurrected body? Or is that Baha’i belief?

 

[Servant19]

I understand your blatant objection Servant because the Baha’i faith hinges on the belief that Christ’s Resurrection was not physical. How else would this so called “manifestion of god” happen. It certainly wouldn’t happen if his body had risen.

Thanks for your little assumption on what Paul meant. But you’re the one that’s twisting his words. Do you think the Apostles are liars when they attest to Jesus’ resurrected body? Or is that Baha’i belief?

Please show me the Biblical text dear Jimmy.

How on earth quoting Paul DIRECTLY from 1Corinthians is “twisting” his words is beyond me…staggering…

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[JimmyDFG]

Science has a long way to go, we have been so backward and have yet to balance Science with religion and then great things will be found.

“The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break down there,” Ahmed Farag Ali at Benha University and the Zewail City of Science and Technology, both in Egypt, told Phys.org.

Ali and coauthor Saurya Das at the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada, have shown in a paper published in Physics Letters B that the Big Bang singularity can be resolved by their new model in which the universe has no beginning and no end.

Read more at: phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html#jCp

Regards Tony

Tony, Opening paragraph "The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein’s theory of general relativity. "

Seriously going to need more proof then that. The Baha’i are in hopes of having something right

 

[Servant19]

as much as the bahai have commented in these threads, i have yet to hear of a good reason to believe bab or bahaullah were sent to mankind by almighty God.

i have yet to hear from the bahai what bab or bahaullah provide to mankind that it cannot do without.

to me, the tens of thousands of pages of words that bahaullah wrote prove little other than his obsession with putting his thoughts on paper.

it is true that if we comb through the writings of bahaullah that we will see teachings he derived from christianity. in other words, he repeats some of the teachings of Jesus. this is not unique to the bahai faith. many other men and women since the time of Jesus have adopted some of His teachings. this occurs especially when such people can use those words to glorify themselves or to obtain power in this world. it is not surprising that people, since the time of Jesus, have incorporated some of Jesus’ teachings in to their own.

but, what teachings that originate with bahaullah can mankind not do without.

remember before answering, Jesus taught the unity of mankind through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. changing the meaning of Jesus’ teachings, interpreting them differently than Jesus’ magisterium interprets them, is not new teachings. it is merely defiance and distortion of the teachings of the Lord’s magisterium. even before the Lord’s death and resurrection, there were people misinterpreting Jesus and later disagreeing with the Gospel of Jesus Christ taught to us by His apostles. this is found repeatedly in the N.T., especially in the letters of st. paul the apostle to the gentiles.

Dear Eddie, I have no doubt that Jesus Himself could appear before you, give you all the signs possible and you would say that He is not the true Jesus.

Please tell us what you are looking for?

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[JimmyDFG]

Please show me the Biblical text dear Jimmy.

How on earth quoting Paul DIRECTLY from 1Corinthians is “twisting” his words is beyond me…staggering…

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Servant you said… "If the body was raised a physical body, Paul would simply state, “it is sown a physical body, it is raised a physical body”

1Corinthians15:44 “what is sown is a natural body, and what is raised is a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is a spiritual body too.”

How is this quoting Paul directly Servant? I don’t see it

 

[Servant19]

Tony, Opening paragraph "The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein’s theory of general relativity. "

Seriously going to need more proof then that. The Baha’i are in hopes of having something right

Not at all Jimmy

The Baha’i quote you gave has nothing really to do with the physical universe…

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[JimmyDFG]

Not at all Jimmy

The Baha’i quote you gave has nothing really to do with the physical universe…

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The quote I gave was from the website Tony gave

 

[Servant19]

Servant you said… "If the body was raised a physical body, Paul would simply state, “it is sown a physical body, it is raised a physical body”

1Corinthians15:44 “what is sown is a natural body, and what is raised is a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is a spiritual body too.”

How is this quoting Paul directly Servant? I don’t see it

Jimmy, that’s what YOU are saying Paul is saying.

YOU are saying that the body is sown a physical body and it is raised a physical body.
This CONTRADICTS what Paul said.

I simply said that IF Paul was to agree with what YOU are saying, then he WOULD have said “sown a physical body, raised a physical body”…but he didn’t, he said the OPPOSITE to what you are asserting as Truth.



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[JimmyDFG]

Jimmy, that’s what YOU are saying Paul is saying.

YOU are saying that the body is sown a physical body and it is raised a physical body.
This CONTRADICTS what Paul said.

I simply said that IF Paul was to agree with what YOU are saying, then he WOULD have said “sown a physical body, raised a physical body”…but he didn’t, he said the OPPOSITE to what you are asserting as Truth.



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You like playing games?

 

[JimmyDFG]

Jimmy, that’s what YOU are saying Paul is saying.

YOU are saying that the body is sown a physical body and it is raised a physical body.
This CONTRADICTS what Paul said.

I simply said that IF Paul was to agree with what YOU are saying, then he WOULD have said “sown a physical body, raised a physical body”…but he didn’t, he said the OPPOSITE to what you are asserting as Truth.



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Who wrote Corinthians?

 

[Servant19]

If I may ask…

So why do Baha’is accept a “physical” Virgin Birth?

Why is that the domain of faith? It happened in the physical world, no?

Why is the Virgin Birth not “spiritualized” or interpreted metaphorically?

I think that the Christian understanding of the Resurrection has been explained in great detail. I am not sure there is much more to go over on this front.

The Baha’i and Christian interpretations are different. Why can’t we agree to disagree and just respect our variant understandings now that they have been put forward in considerable detail?

Hello brother,

I think you caught the end of a discussion on Jimmy insisting on scientific proof for something mentioned in the Baha’i Writings which has not been verified as yet.

The Baha’i Faith does not deny the miracles of Jesus or His virgin birth, although all are unrelated to spiritual Truths. If Jesus was born of a non-virgin birth, His Divinity is not diminished. If Jesus never did one miracle, His Divinity is not diminished. Jesus Himself insisted that these miracles were not to be shared with anyone.

In Baghdad, a believer approached Baha’u’llah with a huge, voluminous book comprising of a collection of all the miracles that Baha’u’llah had performed in His life so far. Baha’u’llah thanked Him for His efforts and proceeded to throw the book into the River Tigris.

Surely, we are less worldly than these physical expressions dear brother…no?

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[JimmyDFG]

Hello brother,

I think you caught the end of a discussion on Jimmy insisting on scientific proof for something mentioned in the Baha’i Writings which has not been verified as yet.

The Baha’i Faith does not deny the miracles of Jesus or His virgin birth, although all are unrelated to spiritual Truths. If Jesus was born of a non-virgin birth, His Divinity is not diminished. If Jesus never did one miracle, His Divinity is not diminished. Jesus Himself insisted that these miracles were not to be shared with anyone.

In Baghdad, a believer approached Baha’u’llah with a huge, voluminous book comprising of a collection of all the miracles that Baha’u’llah had performed in His life so far. Baha’u’llah thanked Him for His efforts and proceeded to throw the book into the River Tigris.

Surely, we are less worldly than these physical expressions dear brother…no?

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What " scientific proof " was I wanting?

 

[Servant19]

Who wrote Corinthians?

Paul.

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[Servant19]

What " scientific proof " was I wanting?

That Jesus’ body was buried in Jerusalem…

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[JimmyDFG]

That Jesus’ body was buried in Jerusalem…

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Give me proof of me saying that I wanted scientific proof of “Jesus’ body was buried in Jerusalem”

 

[JimmyDFG]

That Jesus’ body was buried in Jerusalem…

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Do you get kicks out of playing games Servant?

 

[TonyBS]

Tony, Opening paragraph "The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein’s theory of general relativity. "

Seriously going to need more proof then that. The Baha’i are in hopes of having something right

This is a current Scientific thought and in no way connected to the Baha’i writings, it was to show that just as we are yet to understand Gods Spiritual revelations, we are also far from understanding science. True science will lead back to the One Creator with no Beginning and No end. His creation is always growing and expanding.

“…Consider the following well-known tradition and examine its meanings indicative of the vastness of the cosmos and its awesome limitless expanse: ‘God, exalted be He, fashioned one hundred thousand, thousand lamps and suspended the Throne, the earth, the heavens and whatsoever is between them, even Heaven and Hell – all of these in a single lamp. And only God knows what is in the rest of the lamps.’ The fact that philosophers and sages have posited limits and restrictions for such matters is to be explained by the limitations of people~s minds and perceptions and the blindness of the followers of allusions, whose natures and intellects have been rendered dull and inanimate by the interposition of many veils…”

"…, strive thou to comprehend the meaning of the melody of that eternal beauty, Ḥusayn, son of ‘Alí, who, addressing Salmán, spoke words such as these: “I was with a thousand Adams, the interval between each and the next Adam was fifty thousand years, and to each one of these I declared the Successorship conferred upon my father.” He then recounteth certain details, until he saith: “I have fought one thousand battles in the path of God, the least and most insignificant of which was like the battle of Khaybar, in which battle my father fought and contended against the infidels.” Endeavour now to apprehend from these two traditions the mysteries of “end,” “return,” and “creation without beginning or end…”

Regards Tony

 

[worldcitizen]

In older Arabic Bible’s the name BAHA’U’LLAH appeared in both Revelation and Isaiah.

Apparently when it became known of Baha’u’llah’s claims the later translations disgusted this fact so people would not turn to Baha’u’llah.

Proof of this are facsimiles of the New Testament showing Baha’u’llah’s Name in Arabic in older Bibles.

These are things Christians should question. If Baha’u’llah was not the One prophesied why block His Nmae out and replace it??

Clearly the object is so others will not see that the Bible clearly intended none other than Baha’u’llah. Huge vested interests, nothing to do with truth but more to do with wealth and power,are at work here to ensure people don’t know the truth.

fananapazir.co.nr/bibles.html

Links to BAHA in Isaiah are at the bottom

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