Exploring Bahaism

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Gabriel_of_12 said:
It would be a mistake if one takes on the unproven fact that Mohammad is a descendant of Ishmael, to date this is only wishful thinking.

Let us not make the mistake of forgetting the Patriarch descendants of the cursed, like Abel’s brother Cain, Noah who cursed the line of Ham (Cannan) and the biblical descendants of Lot’s cursed sons Moab, Amon. These cursed Cannanites, Moabites, Amonites also moved and lived among the territories of the pagan Arabs that came later.

Could these same Pagan Arabs be the direct descendants of the cursed line of the historical Patriarchs which became Gentile to the Hebrew faith?

The Bahai faith comes from Iran = Persia. Something to consider in your line of reasoning when it comes to biblical descendants of pagans and the 12 tribes of Israel.

In regards to the OP, I agree with you, ancient pagan (Gentile) religions which grew into today’s existing religions all possess some aspect of Truth to their followers and were beneficial economically and socially for these peoples.

But for Bahaism to make the claim that it is here to join all religions and their belief’s under one banner (Bahaism) is a contradiction of God’s revelation.

Let us not forget what Jesus taught His disciples when such a topic arose; “Do not suppose that I came to bring peace to the world, but I bring a Sword” Matthew 10:34-36

What would Jesus tell the Bab today if the Bab existed during Jesus time? The teaching’s of Jesus are for Christians to follow. To mix the true Christianity Jesus revealed with any other religious belief’s would fall into prostitution of God’s Word. It is here where Jesus revealed to John, " I would prefer you to be hot or cold… but if you are luke warm, I will spew you out of my mouth".

TRUTH stands by itself. TRUTH does not need to be assisted by another truth to remain TRUTH.

Peace be with you
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Critical line in your reasoning is “If the Bab existed during Jesus’ time”

While Jesus brought a sword, it applied for the Age of Christianity. He has since returned. We no longer need to live by that sword 🙂

The problem is, too many Catholics patronise others claiming they are the owners of absolute Truth. How incredibly DAMAGING, not just to their own salvation, but to society as a whole…

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JimmyDFG said:
Why is offensive to say that Servant? Your god is dead?
So much for “unity”
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Theologically and morally bankrupt post…

🤷

I can see the living and the dead in the world. It really is the Day of Resurrection.

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JimmyDFG said:
Tony, You must find Christianity offensive?
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I actually find the incorrect example of Christianity presented in this thread offensive.

I think Catholicism has been represented very poorly in this thread…

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Servant19 said:
Yes He could, but is that Catholic teaching?

I think not…

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The New Testament comes from the Catholic Church.

**The Return of the Lord

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 4:17**
 
Servant19 said:
Critical line in your reasoning is “If the Bab existed during Jesus’ time”

While Jesus brought a sword, it applied for the Age of Christianity. He has since returned. We no longer need to live by that sword 🙂

The problem is, too many Catholics patronise others claiming they are the owners of absolute Truth. How incredibly DAMAGING, not just to their own salvation, but to society as a whole…

.

.
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But it’s absolute Truth that Jesus has returned… right ? Why do you need salvation if you don’t believe in the Devil and Hell ?
 
Techno2000 said:
The New Testament comes from the Catholic Church.

**The Return of the Lord

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 4:17**
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Jesus said He came from heaven too.
Did He not have a natural birth??

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Techno2000 said:
Ok, I need to know the spiritual benefits that is derived from each one for me and mankind.But you see now how you have to always go back to Jesus.🙂
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Ok. The spiritual benefits.

Krishna The Bhagavad-Gita bhagavad-gita.org/index-english.html

Zoroaster: Zend Avesta avesta.org

Buddha Damapadda sacred-texts.com/bud/sbe10/

Muhammad The Quran noblequran.com/translation/

The Bab bahai-library.com/bab_selections_writings_bab

Most of these Holy Books inspired and sculptured civilisation and affected and guided spiritually billions of lives thoughout thousands of years when Jesus had not yet come.

They taught people about God, heaven and hell, resurrection and many such concepts before Christianity was even born.

Here’s what one author says:

"Zoroaster was thus the first to teach the doctrines of an individual judgment, Heaven and Hell, the future resurrection of the body, the general Last Judgment, and life everlasting for the reunited soul and body. These doctrines were to become familiar articles of faith to much of mankind, through borrowings by Judaism, Christianity and Islam; yet it is in Zoroastrianism itself that they have their fullest logical coherence…” - Mary Boyce, Op. Cit. p. 29.

The spiritual enrichment gained by humanity from all these Manifestations is inestimable and priceless.

Buddha taught meditation and detachment from the ego or self
Muhammad taught love of country
Zoroaster heaven and hell and good thoughts, good actions
Krishna taught that our true reality is our soul our body is only as clothes.

All these qualities we find we need and none are at conflict but enhance our richness of spiritual life.

Add to this love of humanity by Baha’u’llah and humanity has a rich pool of spiritual knowledge with which to educate our souls.

So as we can see they not only established great civilisations and kingdoms that brought material benefits sciences and arts but developed and widened our spiritual vistas and vision.
 
Servant19 said:
Theologically and morally bankrupt post…

🤷

I can see the living and the dead in the world. It really is the Day of Resurrection.

.
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You should be ashamed of yourself with some of your comments Servant. And don’t play with coy… I know exactly what you’re implying
 
TonyBS said:
Yes Martin, much deeper 😉

Regards Tony
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And so what is it that is deeper? Do you know? Take the responsibility of using our Scripture and let Jesus continue his discourse. What did he say next about children to the Disciples +

MJ
 
JimmyDFG said:
You should be ashamed of yourself with some of your comments Servant. And don’t play with coy… I know exactly what you’re implying
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I admit, I’m incredibly offended that after so much dialogue with Baha’is and pointing fingers at Baha’u’llah, implying that you know something, you have concluded that Baha’u’llah is not alive. He is more alive than when He walked the earth. I’m confident you would be similarly offended if I said you worship a dead Jesus…a step I would never take, unless I was insincere in my heart…

I think worldcitizen directly addressed this very subject with you a week or so ago.

Fell on deaf ears, only to lash out offensively, and patronisingly…

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Servant19 said:
I admit, I’m incredibly offended that after so much dialogue with Baha’is and pointing fingers at Baha’u’llah, implying that you know something, you have concluded that Baha’u’llah is not alive. He is more alive than when He walked the earth. I’m confident you would be similarly offended if I said you worship a dead Jesus…a step I would never take, unless I was insincere in my heart…

I think worldcitizen directly addressed this very subject with you a week or so ago.

Fell on deaf ears, only to lash out offensively, and patronisingly…

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Fell on deaf ears?? No it didn’t , I don’t believe bahaism as being the fulfillment of Catholicism. Jesus is the fulfillment of Catholicism and Christianity…its not by a named mírzá husayn-`alí núrí
 
Servant19 said:
I admit, I’m incredibly offended that after so much dialogue with Baha’is and pointing fingers at Baha’u’llah, implying that you know something, you have concluded that Baha’u’llah is not alive. He is more alive than when He walked the earth. I’m confident you would be similarly offended if I said you worship a dead Jesus…a step I would never take, unless I was insincere in my heart…

I think worldcitizen directly addressed this very subject with you a week or so ago.

Fell on deaf ears, only to lash out offensively, and patronisingly…

.
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrine_of_Bah%C3%A1%27u%27ll%C3%A1h

Is the grave empty or something?
 
Yes, there has been a lot of dialogue but not much agreement. I disagree with those who say that the Baha’i Faith has no value and also with those who maintain that this Faith replaces Christianity.

I don’t like it that the Baha’i Faith rejects the disappearance of Jesus’s body from His tomb, and I don’t like it that most Christian Churches have no protocols that would prohibit their members from servicing an ICBM armed with a nuclear weapon.

But if I had to choose between the Baha’i who believed that the resurrection of our Lord was a spirtual metaphor and a Catholic who was serving on an SSBN, I would pick the Baha’i every time.
 
TonyBS said:
No, I just told you that 😉 He is as Alive and Visible to me, as Christ is to you and Me

Regards Tony
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To me Christ’s physical body is alive and in heaven. Since you deny that premise in regards to Christ you will not keep it with regards to Ali Nuri. Hence your Prophet is dead. If your prophet is alive through his ideas through the people who take him seriously he is then no more alive in the spirit than Joseph Smith. This is the argument you make concerning Jesus that the resurrection was really his followers keeping his message and holding to what Christ taught, in which case there have been plenty of resurrections throughout history. Socrates, Shakespeare, Bernard Shaw, C.S Lewis, Tolkien, all have been resurrected and are alive today, more so than Ali Nuri I might add.

But we all know in reality, your prophet is dead and in the ground, his bones buried in the shrine described in the Wikipedia article. Keep saying he was alive, but don’t pretend to yourself that we don’t know you know your prophet is truly and thoroughly dead.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
To me Christ’s physical body is alive and in heaven. Since you deny that premise in regards to Christ you will not keep it with regards to Ali Nuri. Hence your Prophet is dead. If your prophet is alive through his ideas through the people who take him seriously he is then no more alive in the spirit than Joseph Smith. This is the argument you make concerning Jesus that the resurrection was really his followers keeping his message and holding to what Christ taught, in which case there have been plenty of resurrections throughout history. Socrates, Shakespeare, Bernard Shaw, C.S Lewis, Tolkien, all have been resurrected and are alive today, more so than Ali Nuri I might add.

But we all know in reality, your prophet is dead and in the ground, his bones buried in the shrine described in the Wikipedia article. Keep saying he was alive, but don’t pretend to yourself that we don’t know you know your prophet is truly and thoroughly dead.
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Is heaven a physical place Ignatian?

Can we eat, drink and do all the things we do here on earth in heaven?

It is also UNBIBLICAL to say the resurrection gives us a “physical body”
Full contradiction…
 
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