Exploring Bahaism

[JimmyDFG]

It is understood the Revelation of Baha’u’llah is a great challenge to all.

To date no plausible rejection has been given, but echos of the rejections of ages past.

To the Jews, Jesus the Christs fruits were not enough;

To the Christians, Muhammad’s fruits were not enough;

To the Muslims, both the Bab and Baha’u’llah Fruits are not enough!

Time repeats, rejections repeat, time rolls on and the world will change in the direction as it is already written.

Thus not sure why one would want to keep looking for bad in the places where you will find nothing but good. We should have learned by now never to condemn a Messenger because of the people that claim the name and do not produce further fruit.

Regards Tony

What fruits did the Baha u llah produce?
Don’t the Baha’i claim that Baha’u’llah is the fulfillment of the biblical prophecies of the return of Christ. Taken literally, of course, the biblical prophecies of Christ’s return do not fit Baha’u’llah. The Bible speaks of Jesus Himself returning in the skies before the entire world in a cataclysmic fashion to judge the living and the dead ( Matt. 24). By contrast, Baha’is recognized as the “Christ” another person (Baha’u’llah) who came into the world in relative obscurity through natural means ( conception and birth).

 

[worldcitizen]

After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens said,** “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”**

Jesus didn’t need any “Station” because he was God the Son .

Mark 10:18

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[TonyBS]

What fruits did the Baha u llah produce?
Don’t the Baha’i claim that Baha’u’llah is the fulfillment of the biblical prophecies of the return of Christ. Taken literally, of course, the biblical prophecies of Christ’s return do not fit Baha’u’llah. The Bible speaks of Jesus Himself returning in the skies before the entire world in a cataclysmic fashion to judge the living and the dead ( Matt. 24). By contrast, Baha’is recognized as the “Christ” another person (Baha’u’llah) who came into the world in relative obscurity through natural means ( conception and birth).

A person would need to study the life and message of Baha’ullah then the question of Fruits is apparent, Queen Marie from Romania said it most heartfelt

"The Baha’i teaching brings peace and understanding. It is like a wide embrace gathering together all those who have long searched for words of hope. It accepts all great Prophets gone before, it destroys no other creeds and leaves all doors open. Saddened by the continual strife amongst believers of many confessions and wearied of their intolerance towards each other, I discovered in the Baha’i teaching the real spirit of Christ so often denied and misunderstood: Unity instead of strife, Hope instead of condemnation, Love instead of hate, and a great reassurance for all men. – Queen Marie

It is Christ’s Message taken up anew, in the same words almost, but adapted to the thousand years and more difference that lies between the year one and today. No man could fail to be better because of this Book.

I commend it to you all. If ever the name of Bahá’u’lláh or 'Abdu’l-Bahá comes to your attention, do not put their writings from you. Search out their Books, and let their glorious, peace-bringing, love-creating words and lessons sink into your hearts as they have into mine.- Queen Marie tkinter.smig.net/queenmarie/BahaiFaith/index.htm

As for Prophesy - As Christ fulfilled Scriptures of the past so did Muhammad, so did the Bab and so did Baha’u’llah, most wonderfully in fact

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

Mark 10:18

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Jesus had not finished speaking. Why stop his words? Are you sure you’re being fair to the Gospel?

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

A person would need to study the life and message of Baha’ullah then the question of Fruits is apparent, Queen Marie from Romania said it most heartfelt

"The Baha’i teaching brings peace and understanding. It is like a wide embrace gathering together all those who have long searched for words of hope. It accepts all great Prophets gone before, it destroys no other creeds and leaves all doors open. Saddened by the continual strife amongst believers of many confessions and wearied of their intolerance towards each other, I discovered in the Baha’i teaching the real spirit of Christ so often denied and misunderstood: Unity instead of strife, Hope instead of condemnation, Love instead of hate, and a great reassurance for all men. – Queen Marie

It is Christ’s Message taken up anew, in the same words almost, but adapted to the thousand years and more difference that lies between the year one and today. No man could fail to be better because of this Book.

I commend it to you all. If ever the name of Bahá’u’lláh or 'Abdu’l-Bahá comes to your attention, do not put their writings from you. Search out their Books, and let their glorious, peace-bringing, love-creating words and lessons sink into your hearts as they have into mine.- Queen Marie tkinter.smig.net/queenmarie/BahaiFaith/index.htm

As for Prophesy - As Christ fulfilled Scriptures of the past so did Muhammad, so did the Bab and so did Baha’u’llah, most wonderfully in fact

Regards Tony

Christ also didn’t finish speaking where you’ve stopped. Not trustworthy Tony.

Seek Him and pray at ALL times.

MJ

 

[JimmyDFG]

It is understood the Revelation of Baha’u’llah is a great challenge to all.

To date no plausible rejection has been given, but echos of the rejections of ages past.

To the Jews, Jesus the Christs fruits were not enough;

To the Christians, Muhammad’s fruits were not enough;

To the Muslims, both the Bab and Baha’u’llah Fruits are not enough!

Time repeats, rejections repeat, time rolls on and the world will change in the direction as it is already written.

Regards Tony

The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah for much the same sort of reason that Baha’is accept Baha’u’llah (which, in effect, is also rejecting Jesus)

 

[Servant19]

The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah for much the same sort of reason that Baha’is accept Baha’u’llah (which, in effect, is also rejecting Jesus)

Could you please list some of the reasons the Jews rejected Jesus please Jimmy?

.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Christ also didn’t finish speaking where you’ve stopped. Not trustworthy Tony.

Seek Him and pray at ALL times.

MJ

They interpret for their own agenda

 

[MartinJordan]

They interpret for their own agenda

Unfortunate that they don’t let Jesus complete his words. There is Spiritual danger in doing so. In all charity I say this.

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

Jesus had not finished speaking. Why stop his words? Are you sure you’re being fair to the Gospel?

MJ

It’s clearly an interpretation issue. Jesus clearly made the distinction between Himself and the essence of God.

John14:28

My father is greater than I. My father and I are one etc

These kinds of things divided the church from its beginning.

In the sense that Christ represented God He could be called at one with God but Christ was not God Almighty Himsellf but sent by God to do God’s Will.

There were splits in he church over Christ’s divinity and over things like the Pope’s infallibility and each sect maintains it is right and the other wrong.

 

[TonyBS]

Christ also didn’t finish speaking where you’ve stopped. Not trustworthy Tony.

Seek Him and pray at ALL times.

MJ

Who is saying I do not 'Seek Him and pray at ALL times", who’s is saying that the answers I get from pursuing “Seek Him and pray at ALL times” are wrong answers.

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

Who is saying I do not 'Seek Him and pray at ALL times", who’s is saying that the answers I get from pursuing “Seek Him and pray at ALL times” are wrong answers.

Regards Tony

How do you know one must pray at all times?

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

Unfortunate that they don’t let Jesus complete his words. There is Spiritual danger in doing so. In all charity I say this.

MJ

Martin one thing I have found in Reading all the Holy Scriptures is how Much the Conversation can change meaning within but one Verse. Meaning on an entirely different subject can be found in but a few words of a full passage.

This is not uncommon in all the scriptures and in the Writings of Baha’u’llah this has been made even clearer. It is not wrong, it is the way that God Gives His Message. he wants us to read and hGod wants us to understand using our own Free Will and Common Sense.

God does not want us to be mere puppets of thought.

If you wish we can explore this in another post, it would be interesting to say the least

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

How do you know one must pray at all times?

MJ

Gods Holy Books

A great bounty of this Dispensation is that Baha’u’llah has raised work done in the spirit of service to worship.

So one now can get a living to serve His Faith and worship all working day long. What a bounty!

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

It’s clearly an interpretation issue. Jesus clearly made the distinction between Himself and the essence of God.

John14:28

My father is greater than I. My father and I are one etc

These kinds of things divided the church from its beginning.

In the sense that Christ represented God He could be called at one with God but Christ was not God Almighty Himsellf but sent by God to do God’s Will.

There were splits in he church over Christ’s divinity and over things like the Pope’s infallibility and each sect maintains it is right and the other wrong.

Nothing to do with my point. You brought in John 10 but don’t complete it. Take responsibility instead of taking tangents with these.

MJ

 

[arthra]

one of the things that seems apparent about the bahai religion is that no one knows all that bahaullah wrote. i base this on the bahai teaching that bahaullah wrote tens of thousands of pages of words. even if some one has or had read all of the tens of thousands of pages (from this i gather that no one knows for certain how many pages bahaullah wrote), there have been no scholarly analysis of all of bahaullah’s writings to identify whether or not they might be contradictory or even how consistent they are.

do the bahai know how many pages of bahaullah’s writings were lost? how do the bahai know that bahaullah wrote everything that people say he wrote?

until definitive analyses are performed and all of the writings of bahaullah are subjected to textual analysis and textual criticism, there seems to be little reason to hold them in high esteem because scholarly textual analysis might reveal in them ideas, concepts, allegories, metaphors, figurative language, etc., etc., etc. that contradict each other.
maybe they do not. maybe they do. the point is that they have not been subjected to scholarly analysis, especially by non-bahai. admittedly, some of the writings of bahaullah have been analyzed using scholarly textual analysis and criticsim, but not all.

There is a pretty accurate assessment of the Writings and of course most of the Writings are still in Arabic and Farsi but many of the important Writings are translated authoritatively and they are available online…

reference.bahai.org/en/

To be authoritative the Writings have to be sealed and in the hand of Baha’u’llah Himself or by secretaries and “sealed” with His seal… Hearsay references while interesting aren’t considered authoritative in our Faith so we have no “Hadith” traditions as in Islam that carry much weight.

*The writings, or tablets, of the Báb, Bahá’u’lláh, 'Abdu’l-Bahá, and Shoghi Effendi are stored at various places at the Bahá’í World Center in Haifa, Israel. Soon they will be moved to a building named “The Center for the Study of the Sacred Texts,” which is under construction as of this writing. Microfiche copies of the tablets are also preserved for safekeeping at a variety of places around the world. Many texts were lost, stolen, or destroyed, and many others are still held in private hands. The estimated figures for the total number of individual tablets are as follows: Bahá’u’lláh, 7,160 tablets archived, 15,000 total estimated to have been written; 'Abdu’l-Bahá, 15,549 tablets archived, 30,800 total estimated to have been written; Shoghi Effendi, 16,370 letters archived, 30,100 total estimated to have been written (“Bahá’í Archives: Preserving and Safeguarding the Sacred Texts,” in 'Andalíb magazine, 12.48 (Fall 1993): insert). William Collins has described the structure of the International Bahá’í Archives and other considerations relevant to preserving the sacred texts in “Library and Archival Resources at the Bahá’í World Centre,” in Bahá’í Studies Bulletin, 3.4 (Dec. 1985).
bahai-library.com/number_tablets_bahaullah

 

[MartinJordan]

Gods Holy Books

A great bounty of this Dispensation is that Baha’u’llah has raised work done in the spirit of service to worship.

So one now can get a living to serve His Faith and worship all working day long. What a bounty!

Regards Tony

How do you know which are Holy Books?

MJ

 

[JimmyDFG]

It’s clearly an interpretation issue. Jesus clearly made the distinction between Himself and the essence of God.

John14:28

My father is greater than I. My father and I are one etc

These kinds of things divided the church from its beginning.

In the sense that Christ represented God He could be called at one with God but Christ was not God Almighty Himsellf but sent by God to do God’s Will.

There were splits in he church over Christ’s divinity and over things like the Pope’s infallibility and each sect maintains it is right and the other wrong.

Why are you so focused on that one verse? IF you would of read the whole Chapter you would of seen John 14:9 “'Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say, “Show us the Father”?”

These kinds of things divided the Church from other false religions

 

[MartinJordan]

Martin one thing I have found in Reading all the Holy Scriptures is how Much the Conversation can change meaning within but one Verse. Meaning on an entirely different subject can be found in but a few words of a full passage.

This is not uncommon in all the scriptures and in the Writings of Baha’u’llah this has been made even clearer. It is not wrong, it is the way that God Gives His Message. he wants us to read and hGod wants us to understand using our own Free Will and Common Sense.

God does not want us to be mere puppets of thought.

If you wish we can explore this in another post, it would be interesting to say the least

Regards Tony

Then take responsibility with the Holy Bible. Let Jesus speak.

And you still haven’t responded fully about Jesus mentioning the New Testament. Isn’t Jesus worth knowing properly?

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Why are you so focused on that one verse? IF you would of read the whole Chapter you would of seen John 14:9 “'Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say, “Show us the Father”?”

These kinds of things divided the Church from other false religions

There are youtube videos with so called clerics who take verses from a point in time of their choosing and exegete (or more accurately lack of exegesis) the same way.

MJ