Exploring Bahaism

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JimmyDFG said:
As for Moses …According to the Hebrew Bible, he was a former Egyptian prince. So he would of worshiped pagan Egyptian gods

Exodus2:10-11
" When the child grew up, she brought him to Pharaoh’s daughter who treated him like a son; she named him Moses ‘because’, she said, ‘I drew him out of the water.’
It happened one day, when Moses was grown up, that he went to see his kinsmen. While he was watching their forced labour he also saw an Egyptian striking a Hebrew, one of his kinsmen."

As you said worldcitizen
“Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.”

Is this part of the reasoning the Baha’i needs to justify there fabrication? Furthermore why would Abdul-Baha use statements like " to find torment in hell " and “excruciating tortures” if its the Baha’i belief that hell is only being further from God
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Answering this question would be just Repetition of the same, go back up through the thread, I have seen the answer posted at least once not far back to this specific question.

Regards Tony
 
JimmyDFG said:
As for Moses …According to the Hebrew Bible, he was a former Egyptian prince. So he would of worshiped pagan Egyptian gods

Exodus2:10-11
" When the child grew up, she brought him to Pharaoh’s daughter who treated him like a son; she named him Moses ‘because’, she said, ‘I drew him out of the water.’
It happened one day, when Moses was grown up, that he went to see his kinsmen. While he was watching their forced labour he also saw an Egyptian striking a Hebrew, one of his kinsmen."

As you said worldcitizen
“Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.”

Is this part of the reasoning the Baha’i needs to justify there fabrication? Furthermore why would Abdul-Baha use statements like " to find torment in hell " and “excruciating tortures” if its the Baha’i belief that hell is only being further from God
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Abdu’l-Baha knew what the prevailing Christian belief was at the time. He was addressing that. He wasn’t endorsing the existence of hell.

.
 
TonyBS said:
Answering this question would be just Repetition of the same, go back up through the thread, I have seen the answer posted at least once not far back to this specific question.

Regards Tony
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Not for Moses I haven’t. The Baha’is belief on its justification for one persons “sinless” acts doesn’t count for them all?
 
worldcitizen said:
MAR10.19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
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Very good worldcitizen I thank you for your effort…finally.😃

So, what is Jesus saying? Is he talking as an authority? What do you think?🙂

What was the rich man’s next response in Mark 10:20? Did you notice anything?

MJ
 
Servant19 said:
Abdu’l-Baha knew what the prevailing Christian belief was at the time. He was addressing that. He wasn’t endorsing the existence of hell.

.
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He certainly wasn’t endorsing the Baha’i belief to Christians by that statement
 
MartinJordan said:
Very good worldcitizen I thank you for your effort…finally.😃

So, what is Jesus saying? Is he talking as an authority? What do you think?🙂

MJ
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Yes of course! We all know He is th Son of God and don’t dispute His Divinity.

Sorry for the misunderstanding as I didn’t know what you were getting at.
 
Techno2000 said:
Since God is “Unknowable” how does he know what God would allow and not allow ?
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A few times this has arisen and I wanted to respond to your question here…

The nature of God we believe is not so simple as to suggest

“*Since God is ‘Unknowable’ how does he know what God would allow and not allow…”
For Baha’is the “essence” of God is unknowable… We can know God through His attributes and when He is manifested in His Prophets and Messengers we can receive His guidance…but His “essence” remains unknowable to us. I’ll add a few excerpts from the Writings here:

*Say: He it is Who is the Manifestation of Him Who is the Unknowable, the Invisible of the Invisibles, could ye but perceive it. He it is Who hath laid bare before you the hidden and treasured Gem, were ye to seek it. He it is Who is the one Beloved of all things, whether of the past or of the future. Would that ye might set your hearts and hopes upon Him!
*
~ Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 29

THE UNKNOWABLE ESSENCE

*All the people have formed a god in the world of thought, and that form of their own imagination they worship; when the fact is that the imagined form is finite and the human mind is infinite. Surely the infinite is greater than the finite, for imagination is accidental while the mind is essential; surely the essential is greater than the accidental.

Therefore consider: All the sects and peoples worship their own 382 thought; they create a god in their own minds and acknowledge him to be the creator of all things, when that form is a superstition – thus people adore and worship imagination.

That Essence of the Divine Entity and the Unseen of the unseen is holy above imagination and is beyond thought. Consciousness doth not reach It. Within the capacity of comprehension of a produced reality that Ancient Reality cannot be contained. It is a different world; from it there is no information; arrival thereat is impossible; attainment thereto is prohibited and inaccessible. This much is known: It exists and Its existence is certain and proven – but the condition is unknown.
  • ~ Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith - p. 381
 
JimmyDFG said:
He certainly wasn’t endorsing the Baha’i belief to Christians by that statement
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Jimmy - This article is a good explanation - bahai.org.mt/heaven-and-hell-a-bahai-perspective/

“Baha’is believe when a soul passes on to the next life, it is able to evaluate how its life on earth was lived. It will rejoice over whatever it has learned of the Creator, and will delight in anything achieved in service to Him. A soul will also recognize how any refusal on its part to follow God’s Teachings while on earth contributed – in various instances, and in varying degrees – to a deterioration of its spiritual powers and a squandering of opportunities for self-development. This belated recognition will surely be a cause of regret for that soul after its passing from this life”.

Abdu’l-Baha’, Bahá’u’lláh’s Son, explains that from one person to the next differences can be significant:

“For example, the eye and the nail are living; but the life of the nail in relation to the life of the eye is nonexistent. This stone and this man both exist; but the stone in relation to the existence of man is nonexistent….

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God

Love that I can post these sites from around the World this one from Malta 👍

Regards Tony
 
arthra said:
A few times this has arisen and I wanted to respond to your question here…

The nature of God we believe is not so simple as to suggest

“*Since God is ‘Unknowable’ how does he know what God would allow and not allow…”
For Baha’is the “essence” of God is unknowable… We can know God through His attributes and when He is manifested in His Prophets and Messengers we can receive His guidance…but His “essence” remains unknowable to us. I’ll add a few excerpts from the Writings here:

*Say: He it is Who is the Manifestation of Him Who is the Unknowable, the Invisible of the Invisibles, could ye but perceive it. He it is Who hath laid bare before you the hidden and treasured Gem, were ye to seek it. He it is Who is the one Beloved of all things, whether of the past or of the future. Would that ye might set your hearts and hopes upon Him!
*
~ Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 29

THE UNKNOWABLE ESSENCE

*All the people have formed a god in the world of thought, and that form of their own imagination they worship; when the fact is that the imagined form is finite and the human mind is infinite. Surely the infinite is greater than the finite, for imagination is accidental while the mind is essential; surely the essential is greater than the accidental.

Therefore consider: All the sects and peoples worship their own 382 thought; they create a god in their own minds and acknowledge him to be the creator of all things, when that form is a superstition – thus people adore and worship imagination.

That Essence of the Divine Entity and the Unseen of the unseen is holy above imagination and is beyond thought. Consciousness doth not reach It. Within the capacity of comprehension of a produced reality that Ancient Reality cannot be contained. It is a different world; from it there is no information; arrival thereat is impossible; attainment thereto is prohibited and inaccessible. This much is known: It exists and Its existence is certain and proven – but the condition is unknown.
  • ~ Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith - p. 381
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And so what does this mean ?
 
Why would “Progressive Revelations” teach people perfect religions ?
 
This is awesome… They only had to look to ‘Elam’ and the rest would have been history.

"A new date, March 21, 1844, was thus established by the Millerites. While devotees prepared again for the end, oftentimes selling off all worldly possessions and property, many others expressed extreme doubt, generally in a somewhat sarcastic manner:

library.uvm.edu/vtnp/?p=2765
 
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Toleration_1844

Edict of Toleration resulting in the Jews being allowed to gradually return to the Holy Land.

All seemed to focus in that year and this edict was sgned yes you guessed it March 21st 1844.

The times of the Jews trodden under the Gentiles had been fulfilled. The 108 million mile comet a heavenly sign. Signs too numerous to ignore. And so many, many more signs.
 
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