Exposing children to bad family for Christmas

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I must first reference the Bible (not in direct quotes):
  1. It is easy to love the loveable, we must strive to love those who are less desirable.
  2. Forgive each other seven times seventy.
    etc., etc., etc,.
Should you bring your small children to a family gathering of approximately 12 people on Christmas day, when you know that one of the family members is an atheist who loudly proclaims her dislike of Christmas and has a record for distributing illegal substances to a minor?

I forgive my sister-in-law for ruining the past 8 Christmas days, but do I TRULY forgive her if I do not want to be around her? HELP!!!
 
**Forgiveness does not mean having to accept future abuse/wrongdoing. It means simply that you have forgiven a specific act. It means that you love the person still and want what is best for them (love).

You are in no way obligated to spend time around those who are “toxic” and I would argue that you might be obligated to protect minor children from the same people.

But, like everything else in life, things are more complicated than that. I would say it depends on the ages of your children, how able you will be to supervise them constantly, how the negative talk will potentially affect their holiday etc etc etc…

but I think what you are really asking is “is it ok to not have your children around that for Christmas”… I say it is perfectly fine and you should make other plans:thumbsup:**
 
Not enough information to give a good answer.

Just because someone like your sister-in-law will be there is not necessarily a reason to keep your children away from others who love and care for them. You have to look at the bigger picture.

How long will your children be at this gathering? Can you limit the amount of time your children will be around this person? Will you be able to control the interactions of your children with this person? Can you make an abbreviated appearance at the gathering?

I would certainly not allow your children to ever be alone with someone who might be destructive. Do you know she will go out of her way to try to indoctrinate your children into her way of thinking/behaving?

You don’t say where this gathering takes place. Is it at the home of the problematic person or at another home?
 
Someone can only ruin Christmas if you permit that to happen.

You have an annoying family member - heck, who DOESN’T? Because she says she hates Christmas, that ruins it for you? Giving an illegal substance to a minor is vague - that could be gave a 17 year old a sip of a beer or gave a 4 year old a bag of heroin, so, is is this something worth hating another person over?

She is unlovable - remember Christ died for her. Someone once said, you only love God as much as you love your worst enemy. How about showing her the love of Jesus by being loving to her?
 
For eight years, I have shown my sister-in-law nothing but love and acceptance. When she was arrested for distributing crystal meth to a 15 year old, I absolutely hated to think of her enduring the jail environment and prayed for her incessantly. I have forgiven her rudeness towards to me and my husband, and I have forgiven her hatred for the example of love and patience I have shown her. She ridicules me and my husband as she calls us “goody goodies” and she says that our education and our profession as teachers are both a joke. She has encouraged my children to slap other family members and she has used the “f” word at the dinner table. Does that give a little more insight into what I’m dealing with? So, if I decide this is the Christmas we avoid Grandpaw’s house because of this very loud and agressive woman, am I unloving and unforgiving?
 
It sounds as if she is a very sad person.

If it were ME, I’d go. The older I get, the more soft hearted I become.
 
Protect your children!
Matthew 10:28 (New International Version)
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Its time to shake the dust off of your feet and move on. If she ever repents, then try again, but not before then.
 
So, if I decide this is the Christmas we avoid Grandpaw’s house because of this very loud and agressive woman, am I unloving and unforgiving?
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No. You can love her and forgive her from a distance.

It would be crystal clear if she punched you in the face at 8 successive Christmas dinners. You’d forgive her - and stay away from her.

Since she has shown no desire to amend her behavior, and seems to be trying to be a bad influence on your children, you have every right to avoid her.

She has had 8 chances. Wait for an understanding family member to reassure you that she has changed before you expose yourself to her again.

Another suggestion: call the other people who come, and find out if maybe they have all been suffering in silence. Perhaps *she *can be uninvited.

God bless you all,

Ruthie
 
And what did you do or say when she encouraged your children to hit… or when she dropped the f bomb?

I personally segregated my kids from our relative like this… how about you kids eat in the family room? I also reminded said relative to watch her language in front of my kids. I also explained to MIL that we may have to leave because I didn’t want kids around it. And, “XXXX(my child) you know we don’t hit, I don’t care who told you to do it… apologize now and please leave the table”

But I also encouraged the unruly relation to show good behavior… "K, you have a pretty voice… could you sing Jingle Bells with YYYY (youngest child).

Yeah, about the drugs… my relative was so high she forgot to come to our wedding… and when I ran into her on our wedding day right after the wedding, I made sure to remind her that her 4 day binge was very bad timing as she missed the wedding.

I am not shy, but I also want the kids to be able to see their relatives. It is a balancing act. Certainly if she starts anti-Christian stuff, you should defend your faith… trust me, the kids will not remember what she said, but they will remember mom sticking up for Jesus.
 
These are your kids. You have to decide for yourselves what’s best.

However, these are the criteria I view:
  • Is there verbal or physical abuse of the parents or children? If she is calling the kids blankety-blank, and disparaging you or your DH in front of them, then it’s not a good idea to take them.
  • Is this type of abuse- the kind I just described- tolerated by the extended family?
Otherwise, I would simply keep a good eye on your kids, and not deprive them of being with extended family simply because of one member. And I am not a shy person at this point in my life. It wouldn’t bother me to look that person and say, “Sorry you don’t like Christmas. Perhaps our celebration is too much for you, and it would be better if you left, rather than continue to hurt yourself in our presence over our holiday.”
 
quote=Ame;4548017]IShould you bring your small children to a family gathering of approximately 12 people on Christmas day, when you know that one of the family members is an atheist who loudly proclaims her dislike of Christmas and has a record for distributing illegal substances to a minor?
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quote]I don’t care about her religion, if Mother Teresa had a record of giving drugs to minors I would not be taking my kids to visit her. If family members cannot observe the most basic rules of civility and charity, they have no business coming to family gatherings.
 
**I still think it depends on the ages of the children and other factors already mentioned (like the overall environment).

Personally, I would be leaning towards developing my own family celebration traditions and visit with extended family through the rest of the year.

As much as it would be great for the kids to “see mom stick up for what is right” they also deserve to have good holiday memories and peace in their celebrations. They can see mom defend the faith to SIL at other family gatherings:shrug:**
 
There is a difference between forgiving someone, and trusting someone. Forgiving someone doesn’t mean pretending whatever they did never happened, just that you let go of it and any grudges you have. You can forgive someone who stole from you, but you can certainly lock up your valuables next time they’re around! If your relative was giving out CRYSTAL METH, I would keep my children away from them. :eek: That’s a horrible, horrible drug. Put your kids first! 👍
 
If there is any chance that there are drugs around, my children would not be. Period. Not negotiable.
 
BlestOne said:
And what did you do or say when she encouraged your children to hit… or when she dropped the f bomb?

I personally segregated my kids from our relative like this… how about you kids eat in the family room? I also reminded said relative to watch her language in front of my kids. I also explained to MIL that we may have to leave because I didn’t want kids around it. And, “XXXX(my child) you know we don’t hit, I don’t care who told you to do it… apologize now and please leave the table”

But I also encouraged the unruly relation to show good behavior… "K, you have a pretty voice… could you sing Jingle Bells with YYYY (youngest child).

Yeah, about the drugs… my relative was so high she forgot to come to our wedding… and when I ran into her on our wedding day right after the wedding, I made sure to remind her that her 4 day binge was very bad timing as she missed the wedding.

I am not shy, but I also want the kids to be able to see their relatives. It is a balancing act. Certainly if she starts anti-Christian stuff, you should defend your faith… trust me, the kids will not remember what she said, but they will remember mom sticking up for Jesus.
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As always, good advice.

I would just add my personal experience. My dd’s uncle is currently serving time in prison for the things he did while high on drugs. My dd (4) goes with me and her dad to visit him every few months (her dad visits every other week, when he wants to bring her, I go too). She knows her uncle is in prison but not the reasons why (she wouldn’t understand, but will one day find out). She also prays for him daily.

I have plenty of toxic family members, but the conversations I have with my dd are such that if someone says something that is wrong (goes against what she has been taught) she will tell them so. If she does do what they say (ex. say something bad to another family member) she knows she will be in trouble. But she also has seen me firmly correct my family members when they attacked our faith, my parenting, etc.

It’s your call, but if there are other family members there whom your children enjoy being around, then you really should carefully weigh your options. Personally, if I was at Christmas and had a family member complain about the holiday, I’d say something “then why are you here falsely celebrating a feast you do not believe in? Are you a hypocrite?” Then again, I can dish it out too, just some don’t like to be on the receiving end of their criticism.
 
The questions here are really:
1-What is my obligation to celebrate Christmas with my family?
2-What sort of exposure to “bad family” will be harmful to my children?
3-How *should *my family celebrate Christmas?

So for #1 - You don’t HAVE to celebrate Christmas with your family, but if you are in the same town as them, it would take a really good reason (IMO) to completely avoid your close relatives. I know my parents would be very hurt if I decided not to see them at all on Christmas.

For #2 - First question. Do you believe that this person might try to give illegal substances to your children on Christmas? If yes, then you have a great reason to stay away, regardles of whose feelings are hurt.

If not then we move on to the next question: Is this person likely to command alot amount of time on Christmas proclaiming her views on Christmas? If yes, then you’ll look for ways to shield your kids from that, perhaps by not going, or perhaps by just going in another room when it happens. Or even by telling her outright: “We are celebrating Christmas today. That’s what we’re all here for. If you don’t want to celebrate Christmas, then you didn’t need to come. But otherwise I’d appreciate it if you’d keep your criticism of our faith to yourself.” (I know, blunt, you could soften it a bit I suppose)

If none of these two things are going to happen, then your kids are not going to be any worse off by seeing her on Christmas Day. This is a relative that you understandably don’t want your kids to have a close relationship with. But one afternoon visit at Christmas does not a relationship make.

Also, if the conversation isn’t completely focused on her and her beliefs, then her presence can’t ruin Christmas for you unless you are focusing yourself on it. I had atheists at my Christmas celebrations for probably 15-20 years at least. Never once, did it become an issue, because we didn’t talk about our belief systems over dinner. We said Merry Christmas, they politely waited while we said grace, and we had a lovely time.

For #3 - This is the part you have to decide. Of course, you need to find a way to make it meaningful for you and your children. If this dinner is keeping you from being able to have meaningful traditions with your family, then maybe you need to skip it. Or maybe you can work around it - after all, Dec.25 is 24 hours long, and there is Christmas Eve, and the other 12 days of Christmas too.
 
A crystal meth dealer who disrupts family events and ridicules the holiday all have gathered for? WHY do people keep inviting HER?

Maybe if “Grandpaw” loses enough attendees at his events, he’ll stop inviting the loud, abusive drug dealer to his parties… I mean, come on. No way would my kids be going to that function, and “Grandpaw” would be told exactly why.

Being a Christian does not require one to be a fool. If this person were repentant and asking for help… then by all means be there to help. If this person were unrepentant, but open to concern and assistance from her family, then be there for that. Remember, Jesus didn’t go find that immoral woman and tell her to perfume His feet and wipe them with her hair… she sought him out because of her own sorrow, repentance, and unhappiness with her life. We are not required to submit ourselves to the abuse and ridicule of unrepentant sinners who make their living destroying children and others with drugs, and who ridicule our beliefs and life choices to boot.
 
Somehow I missed your 2nd post before I posted myself. It might still be hard for me to stay completely away, although if there was a question of my kids’ safety, I’d do it in a flash. But otherwise, maybe I’d just come for dessert. Or stop by for an hour at some point in the day, not at dinner time, so you aren’t locked into being physically close to her around the table, and so you can say your Merry Christmasses to the other people there.
 
Oh and another thought. It’s one thing to be compassionate. But it’s also ok to have expectations. For example, my parents often invite a man to Chritstmas dinner who is one step away from homeless. He is an alcoholic and is known all over town as sort of a vagabond. My parents invite him, but tell him he needs to take a bath/shower first before he comes, he needs to wear clean clothes, and he can’t be drunk (they have the sort of relationship where they can talk about that stuff - and they have bought him some of those clean clothes). Well, he doesn’t come because he doesn’t want to do those things. But that’s ok. He is being offered something and he chooses to not take it. It’s a shame this relative can’t be told that she needs to behave nicely if she expects to be welcome.
 
The thoughts shared on this forum in response to my original question have been so valuable for me and my husband over the past few day. I thank each of you for your insight and I feel very blessed to have found this site!

I have decided that I absolutely must put my children first. There are 364 other days in the year that our family could have worked together to help my sister-in-law understand what Christmas means to us. I do not believe that Christmas Day is the time for my children to be exposed to the kind of verbal tirades we’ve witnessed in the past. We will definitely see grandpaw and everyone else within 24 hours of December 25th. Everyone in my husband’s family is very afraid of my sister-in-law and the tension on Christmas Day is overwhelming. The entire family mostly sits in silence as she and her husband and six children rule the day with their griping and inappropriate stories. No one wants to tell them anything because they have threatened several family members who have reached their limited and asked them to “tone it down.”

I had a strange childhood with an alcoholic father, but even he made sure that the celebration of the birth of Christ was a peaceful, joyous time in our home. Now that my sons are four and three years old, they are so excited about Jesus’s birthday! I will not dampen the spirit of Christmas that my husband and I have fostered in their hearts, but exposing them to my rude, threatening sister-in-law on Christmas Day. We will see their grandparents on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day afternoon after my sister-in-law leaves. I just pray that my husband’s family will accept our decision to put our children first.
 
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