I would say so, but none of the seven truly ecumenical councils declared one. Hence, there are various canons. that was the case long before the Reformation, and continued to be the case following Trent.
Jon
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Jon
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adf417
Guest
Again, seems to me like only a confusing God would allow something like this.
OR maybe there were more than seven truly ecumenical councils.
Peace!!!
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rcwitness
Guest
Twenty one… and countingAgain, seems to me like only a confusing God would allow something like this.
Peace!!!
If only one patriarch recognizes more than 7, how can there be more than seven?Again, seems to me like only a confusing God would allow something like this.
Peace!!!
I fail to see how blaming God for our divisions makes sense.
Jon
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jmcrae
Guest
Because he is the successor of Peter meaning that what he binds on earth is bound in Heaven (ie: the canon of the Scriptures) and what he looses on earth is loosed in Heaven - Matthew 16:18-19.
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Duane1966
Guest
You do realize most of the patriarchs of the East recognize eight councils?
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adf417
Guest
If i thought God did in fact allow what you have described, multiple canons to be acceptable within Christianity, then I could understand this comment about blaming God. Im not the one who sees the confusion as an acceptable position from God. What do i have to blame God for?
I am quite secure in the position that He does not allow confusion and that all confusion comes from man, meaning God has established His canon and there is only one. Anything else is confusion.
Peace!!!
Certainly not 21. The eighth has its supporters, to be sure
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Duane1966
Guest
So Jon, what is the standard for what determines an ecumenical council?
Wait. I never said it was acceptable. What I’ve said is that it is the situation, objectively, as is the fact that there has never been a universally accepted canon, not as a result of Carthage or Trent, nor by any other means.
I think it is a tragic situation, though just a symptom of a millennium of division in the Church. That confusion, that division isn’t God’s doing, either.
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adf417
Guest
Blessings Jon,
If there has never been a universally accepted canon then that would be “confusion” that God would have, or not have, control over, a position im not sure how to reconcile with a loving and all powerful God. If God is not to blame, and He certainly is not, and since he said He would be with us till the end of time, the only logical conclusion is that in fact He did choose a universal canon and it is up to us humans to accept it, no?
Another way may be to say, the former position above (yours) would be God waiting on us flawed humans to reconcile our understanding to His, the later (mine) is God moving with or without our approval hoping we will follow.
Peace!!!
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rcwitness
Guest
I think this is “thread worthy”…
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Xystus
Guest
In my opinion it is more precise to say that God does allow confusion (if not it wouldn’t exist) but God is **not the source **of confusion.
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Wesrock
Guest
Yet only Peter was declared to be the rock and declared to be given the keys of Heaven. All Bishops do share in Peter’s authority. However, he is the archetype for all Bishops, and his office in Rome continues to be that archetype. He was the chief of the apostles, first amongst them, as the Bishop of Rome continues to be today. It is Rome’s participation or validation of an ecumenical council that makes it one, and that was recognized by many pre-great schism. If it requires the participation/recognition of all Bishops, I fail to see how councils from the fifth century forward can be counted valid such that we can count seven or eight.
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Duane1966
Guest
Jon, did they receive individually, or as a group? Quite clearly, He gave to Peter individually, but the rest He gave collectively. And Peter received again with the group. Why, if Peter already held them? Unless Peter can exercise individually, what the others could only do collectively with Peter. Which is what Chrysostom held to.
This certainly shows a level of leadership, but each of the apostles received the power to bind and loose. And on the point of the thread, note again that different patriarchates hold to different canons. They do not see the Roman See as have a universal jurisdiction. He can, of course, exercise his jurisdiction in his see, but then so can each of the others.
Jon
Correct.
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benjamindt
Guest
The original title should be changed to “missing books in protestant printings”
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jmcrae
Guest
“Each”, no. “All,” yes. Peter alone, yes.
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