'Extra/other doctrines"?

[Dokimas]

Read Acts 2:14 to 41.

Verse 14 states:

Act 2:14 But Peter standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spoke to them: Ye men of Judea, and all you that dwell in Jerusalem, be this known to you and with your ears receive my words.

Verse 41 states:

Act 2:41 They therefore that received his word were baptized: and there were added in that day about three thousand souls.

After that story of Peter’s speaking, it goes on to speak of the doctrines of the Apostles. The Catholic Church is the Apostolic Church. It confirms the doctrines of the Apostles unto this day.

Today, there are over 1 billion Catholics in the world. No one man can go house to house. What was house to house has become nation to nation.

If you’re somehow trying to point at the wealth of the Catholic Church, no one can honestly doubt the Catholic charities in this world. Yes, the Pope lives at the Vatican, but he does not own it. It all belongs to the Church. As for the artworks and other items in it’s possession, do you think America should sell off everything in the Smithsonian: Museums?

The US doen’t claim to be a follower of Jesus. Jesus didn’t have a place to call His own on this earth.​

How many of the 1 billion come from the wombs of catholics and how many because of the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus?

 

[Dokimas]

Surely you’re not suggesting that the Pope shouldn’t have body guards today. John Paul was shot by a Turkish. I know of another attempt on his life and plans to assassinate him on another occasion. We also know that Pope Benedict was attacked twice. One is not being honest to suggest the leader of the world’s largest Christian Church is not a target to extremists in these days.

Yes, many of the Apostles were martyred, of course Christianity was illegal in those days. It wasn’t until Constantine legalized Christianity that the largest majority of persecutions ceased.

Christ had many lessons of humilty that He taught the Apostles. Besides that, why would Peter have to repeat what was stated before other Apostles?

I’m sure the pope’s life has been in danger. Peter was martyred. Christians still are martyred in some countries.​

Take a look in 2 Peter. How many references does Peter make to the idea of reminding his reads? We should be reminded of Important things. The key think would be of that imporance, wouldn’t you say?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The US doen’t claim to be a follower of Jesus. Jesus didn’t have a place to call His own on this earth.​

How many of the 1 billion come from the wombs of catholics and how many because of the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus?

Jesus didn’t have a place of his own, do you? Or is this only directed to Catholics? We know He stayed at Peter’s house and we know He built a Church in His last days.

You’re using a glass house argument against the Catholic Church, unless your Church owns nothing and your congregation owns nothing.

Jesus commanded us to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. In summary, love thy neighbor. The Church does this and more. If it sold off all it has, it would have nothing to continue the works.

I don’t know the statistics you’re asking for. As a convert myself, maybe I should look into it, but it doesn’t seem important. It’s not important because how many Christians were born Christian in the beginning and how many converted? All of them.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’m sure the pope’s life has been in danger. Peter was martyred. Christians still are martyred in some countries.​

Take a look in 2 Peter. How many references does Peter make to the idea of reminding his reads? We should be reminded of Important things. The key think would be of that imporance, wouldn’t you say?

I’ve shown you where Peter asserted his authority with humility. Would you rather he proudly annouced, I HOLD THE KEYS. It was unnecessary as all the Apostles witnessed the statement, or appointment.

You cannot separate the keys from the authority to bind and to loose on earth, with a promise it would be bound and loosed in heaven. I’ve seen Protestants ‘interpret’ the keys, but they cannot logically address the authority to bind and loose. That authority was given first to Peter and then His Church. Never was it given to all. That would have been chaos to say the least.

 

[Dokimas]

Jesus didn’t have a place of his own, do you? Or is this only directed to Catholics? We know He stayed at Peter’s house and we know He built a Church in His last days.

You’re using a glass house argument against the Catholic Church, unless your Church owns nothing and your congregation owns nothing. Does my church claim to be the one and only church Jesus started? Does my church leader claim to be in the direct line from Peter? Does my church claim to teach infallibly? Surely the greater the claim the greater the scrutiny, wouldn’t you say?

Jesus commanded us to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. In summary, love thy neighbor. The Church does this and more. If it sold off all it has, it would have nothing to continue the works. How much money does it take to support all those beautiful buildings? The early church didn’t have buildings but people still gave to the work of the ministry (feeding the hungry and clothing the naked and helping the sick and downcast). Your church’s money could be better spent, couldn’t it?

I don’t know the statistics you’re asking for. As a convert myself, maybe I should look into it, but it doesn’t seem important. It’s not important because how many Christians were born Christian in the beginning and how many converted? No one is born a Christian – God isn’t a Grandfather. We all must choose to let God draw us into His family. All of them.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Does my church claim to be the one and only church Jesus started? Does my church leader claim to be in the direct line from Peter? Does my church claim to teach infallibly? Surely the greater the claim the greater the scrutiny, wouldn’t you say?

So Catholic Christians should be judged and held to a higher standard, than Christian Churches who claim it is wrong, which speaks loudly as saying, because we are right? It’s a double standard whether you want to see it or not.

Christ’s Church should suffer a greater scrutiny, by men. That’s what’s going on here. It’s almost as if one is saying, Christ didn’t have the power to protect a Church He started and protect it until the consummation of the world.

How much money does it take to support all those beautiful buildings? The early church didn’t have buildings but people still gave to the work of the ministry (feeding the hungry and clothing the naked and helping the sick and downcast). Your church’s money could be better spent, couldn’t it?

The early Church was persecuted under the penalty of death.

Are you still trying to say the Catholic Church has not, or does not, give charitably to the world’s hungry, naked, sick and downcast? Again, if the Catholic Church sold every piece of property in it’s possession, how long would the money last to do the good works? The Church is the authority as stated in scriptures. Look at it this way, if all Protestants sold their Bibles, how much good could be done with the money? Did the Lord condemn the Temples? We know Christ condemned those that made a profit for themselves in the Temple.

At this point, I would like to know your Church affliation. I see the Protestant ‘prosperity gospel’ evangelicals on television. Are they held to the same standard you’re holding the Catholic Church too?

No one is born a Christian – God isn’t a Grandfather. We all must choose to let God draw us into His family.

You also asked, “How many of the 1 billion come from the wombs of catholics and how many because of the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus?” Do Protestants not try and raise their children in the faith, or is this another double standard to hold the Catholic Church too?

Catholics are Christians.

Is there a particular doctrine of the Catholic Church you have a question about? Or, maybe you’d like to start a thread to discuss Church finances…

 

[Dokimas]

So Catholic Christians should be judged and held to a higher standard, than Christian Churches who claim it is wrong, which speaks loudly as saying, because we are right? It’s a double standard whether you want to see it or not. If the CC says it is infallible, it sets the standard by which the church should be examined.

Christ’s Church should suffer a greater scrutiny, by men. That’s what’s going on here. It’s almost as if one is saying,** Christ didn’t have the power to protect a Church He started and protect it until the consummation of the world**. Nope, I’m not saying that about the church Jesus started.

The early Church was persecuted under the penalty of death.

Are you still trying to say the Catholic Church has not, or does not, give charitably to the world’s hungry, naked, sick and downcast? Don’t be silly, please. Again, if the Catholic Church sold every piece of property in it’s possession, how long would the money last to do the good works? I’ve answered this question. The Church is the authority as stated in scriptures. Look at it this way, if all Protestants sold their Bibles, how much good could be done with the money? You’re being silly again!!! Apples with apples, please. Did the Lord condemn the Temples? Nope. So what? We know Christ condemned those that made a profit for themselves in the Temple. Take a close look!!!

At this point, I would like to know your Church affliation. Non-denominational. I see the Protestant ‘prosperity gospel’ evangelicals on television. Are they held to the same standard you’re holding the Catholic Church too? If I were on a ‘prosperity gospel’ board I’d do my best to point out to them that their understanding is incorrect. In fact, what they believe could be quite dangerous for themselves and their adherants.

You also asked, “How many of the 1 billion come from the wombs of catholics and how many because of the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus?” Do Protestants not try and raise their children in the faith, or is this another double standard to hold the Catholic Church too? My children were not born Christian. I suppose you could say because they were born into a ‘protestant’ family they were protestant. They DID NOT become Christian until they received Jesus’ life for themselves.
Catholics are Christians. All who call themselves catholics are Christians???

Is there a particular doctrine of the Catholic Church you have a question about? Or, maybe you’d like to start a thread to discuss Church finances… No thank you.

 

[mfbukowski]

The Bible doesn’t teach private interpretation is okay.
2Peter 1:
19 ¶ And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.​

It does teach we are to follow the doctrines of the apostles.

Correct. And who do we go to for confirmation of the truth of our interpretation? The Holy Spirit

 

[mfbukowski]

You may have missed it, but the purpose of this thread is to show that, even if you disagree with the interpretation, Catholic beliefs come from an interpretation of scriptures.
If one can see how a belief is tied in with scriptures, they cannot honestly accuse the Catholic Church has teachings that are non-scriptural.

Catholics will openly discuss all aspects of Catholicism. We have nothing to hide and are proud of faith and all that our beliefs are based on. We will attempt to explain any question asked of us. This is unlike some faiths that believe there are things that should be hidden from those outside their faith, or to those in the process of being evangelized.

If you feel it’s silly, then why are you following and posting in the thread? Your posts have an appearance of derailing the thread.

I thought I was right on the money as far as the topic of the thread. If you don’t want to answer there isn’t much I can do about it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I thought I was right on the money as far as the topic of the thread. If you don’t want to answer there isn’t much I can do about it.

Answer what specifically? You know me better than to insinuate that I won’t answer a direct question. Is this just more of the ‘smoke screen’ to derail the topic of this thread?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If the CC says it is infallible, it sets the standard by which the church should be examined.

Possibly to some who have appointed themselves an authority??? Catholics accept it as a matter of faith, based on scriptures.

Nope. So what?

If Christ didn’t condemn the Temples, as grand as they were in their time, why would He condemn His Church in it’s grandeur today?

If I were on a ‘prosperity gospel’ board I’d do my best to point out to them that their understanding is incorrect. In fact, what they believe could be quite dangerous for themselves and their adherants.

You may not like this next statement. We are in agreement.

All who call themselves catholics are Christians???

I’m almost afraid to ask you what you mean by that question with the excessive question marks. Catholics are most assuredly Christians. Am I going to try and judge each individual within the Church? That’s not my job and there is only One who will judge us ALL.

One last time, I will request you respond outside of quotes. It is difficult to make sure one is responding to all points when they don’t show up because they’re within another quote. I am copying and pasting your statements to try and make sure I am addressing all points you sincerely are interested in seeing a response too.

 

[Dokimas]

One last time, I will request you respond outside of quotes. It is difficult to make sure one is responding to all points when they don’t show up because they’re within another quote. I am copying and pasting your statements to try and make sure I am addressing all points you sincerely are interested in seeing a response too.

Here’s my problem with your request… When I do so and you respond and I go to ‘quote’ you I only get the words you say. That makes it very difficult to follow the conversation. The way I do it, all the present conversation is before me making it easy to respond to by you; you have context.

 

[mfbukowski]

Answer what specifically? You know me better than to insinuate that I won’t answer a direct question. Is this just more of the ‘smoke screen’ to derail the topic of this thread?

Give me a break. I’ll leave that to anyone who is actually reading this thread to figure out.

I’ve asked it several times, forget about it. I will leave your thread to you and what you are unwilling to see.

 

[mfbukowski]

Here’s my problem with your request… When I do so and you respond and I go to ‘quote’ you I only get the words you say. That makes it very difficult to follow the conversation. The way I do it, all the present conversation is before me making it easy to respond to by you; you have context.

Yes, I guess you need to make multiple quotes. I am having the same problem.

It’s not worth it.

 

[Dokimas]

Prodigal Son1: Possibly to some who have appointed themselves an authority??? Catholics accept it as a matter of faith, based on scriptures. You’ve been told the Scriptures speak of the CC by the CC… self serving, wouldn’t you say?

If Christ didn’t condemn the Temples, as grand as they were in their time, why would He condemn His Church in it’s grandeur today? There was but one grand temple of His time, the one in Jerusalem, not one on every corner. BTW, the church He founded was a church of people not of fancy buildings.

You may not like this next statement. We are in agreement. What are you speak about here? (see the problem with the way you do this stuff?)

I’m almost afraid to ask you what you mean by that question with the excessive question marks. ** You see my problem, in the context of quoting you, there is no question. How can I respond without the question? I can’t doing things your way!!! **Catholics are most assuredly Christians. (All???) Am I going to try and judge each individual within the Church? It’s not our place to judge; it’s Jesus’ church and He is the Judge. That’s not my job and there is only One who will judge us ALL. (Oh, I see we’re in agreement.)

 

[Dokimas]

ProdicalSon, I love it when we are in agreement. I’m not contrary to be contrary.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Give me a break. I’ll leave that to anyone who is actually reading this thread to figure out.

I’ve asked it several times, forget about it. I will leave your thread to you and what you are unwilling to see.

See. I quit posting on these forums for a while, mainly due to our conversations. I sincerely felt they lacked the charitability required of Christians. Now, you continue using the condescending tone and insinuation to try and besmirch me somehow, in what I feel is an attempt to rekindle the ‘fire’. If that’s your intent, you can do it alone and be warned, I will report any violations of the rules of this forum.

I am working full time now (I have a 24 hour shift starting at 8AM tomorrow), I have two sick puppies I had to take to the vet today (60 miles away), and I’m responding to several posters, on several threads. I simply do not have time to accomodate veiled questions that are not clearly sincere. If it’s too much for you to re-type the one question you insinuate I am avoiding, then ask someone else, please.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal Son1: Possibly to some who have appointed themselves an authority??? Catholics accept it as a matter of faith, based on scriptures. You’ve been told the Scriptures speak of the CC by the CC… self serving, wouldn’t you say?

Not when I believe they hold the keys to the kingdom of heaven, have the authority to bind and loose and the authority to forgive and retain sins.

If Christ didn’t condemn the Temples, as grand as they were in their time, why would He condemn His Church in it’s grandeur today? There was but one grand temple of His time, the one in Jerusalem, not one on every corner. BTW, the church He founded was a church of people not of fancy buildings.

According to Jewish ‘law’, there was only one Temple, the rest were synagogues. The Church operated for the first 400 years while being persecuted, under the penalty of death. A Church as we imagine it today would have been a corral for the persecutors.

Since building that Church, 2000 years ago, it has grown worldwide and in my honest opinion, there’s still not enough.

BTW, the Catholic Church I attend is fancy, by some’s view, but it was built in the 1800s and our community is still using it.

It’s not what’s on the outside, it’s what is on the inside.

You may not like this next statement. We are in agreement. What are you speak about here? (see the problem with the way you do this stuff?)

I was trying to add abit of humor…a time to laugh, a time to…

I’m almost afraid to ask you what you mean by that question with the excessive question marks. ** You see my problem, in the context of quoting you, there is no question. How can I respond without the question? I can’t doing things your way!!! **Catholics are most assuredly Christians. (All???) Am I going to try and judge each individual within the Church? It’s not our place to judge; it’s Jesus’ church and He is the Judge. That’s not my job and there is only One who will judge us ALL. (Oh, I see we’re in agreement.)

Yes, ALL. To go any further places one in the position of judging…

Twice in one thread, could this be a trend? :bigyikes:

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

ProdicalSon, I love it when we are in agreement. I’m not contrary to be contrary.

There is a lot we would agree on, I imagine. I feel a lot of disagreements between Protestants and Catholics is semantics, the way things are worded. Of course there are those who are contrary to be contrary

 

[LayingHands]

**Joh 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself. I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written. **

Christ lived 33 years and spent 3 years ministering with Apostles, yet we have 4 Gospels to tell us what He did. How long would it take to sit down a read those 4 Gospels? A day? Two days?

Joh 20:30 Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book.
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God: and that believing, you may have life in his name.

It seems John is telling us that that which was written was so we would believe.

He also tells us, twice, that all things are not written and once he tells us, the word itself would not be able to contain the books that be written.

We also know Christ never wrote anything.

Christ started a Church and ordained those men He wanted to be in authority of His Church. Through His actions, He continued His teachings, which are written doctrines and ‘created’ dogmas, from the men of the Church.

Now I can understand your point, but it seems you wish to rant against the Church for some reason. It’s confusing to see one identify themself as Catholic and rant against it’s teachings?

I am sorry, you are right…I rant in frustration because I REASON…I would ask what other lessons Christ taught besides loving GOD and to live in goodness and be godlike, so we prove we are worthy for the REDEMPTION…to our Father GOD? Jesus Christ said “Prove ALL things”…Do not be confused about my FAITH in GOD…I am a cradle born Catholic, however, I have prayed for KNOWLEDGE and WISDOM, all my life…as I enter this last phase of this earthly existence, my rock foundation is my belief in THE ONE SUPREME GOD…this I know by INTUITION too…maybe I am just a Christian? Jesu Christos was the SON, as the WORD (the third GODHEAD of the Trinity), he did bring GOD’S message, which is even included in other Religion Doctrines too…and he was GOD’S MESSENGER…the messenger was clear and simple…