Extraordinary Eucharistic Minister at TLM?

[MiketheSinner]

Hi Everyone!

This is my first post. Ordinarily I just surf around, reading the posts that interest me, not making comments and certainly not posting myself!

This is such an odd situation though, I felt I had to bring it up. I will not reveal in this post the location of the parish or the diocese, because I’m not sure if the following is a serious abuse or simply my own hyper-sensitivity. I’ll let you judge and tell me your thoughts, please.

This past Sunday, 2/19/2017, I attended a parish on the other side of town, specifically to attend the mass in the extraordinary form, also known as the TLM. I was excited to go, since I used to attend Latin masses in my previous diocese which were very well attended and beautiful liturgical events. The mass began as one would normally expect, but I began to worry a bit when after the gospel reading the celebrant began his homily. In his homily, he asked the congregation (about 75 or 100 people, I didn’t count), if they understood the reading for the day. He claimed that the translation to English he was using was confusing and that because of the way it was written, he could not take his eyes off the page when reading in order to look about the room. He suggested this problem was due to the unartful translation and the awkward working. Admittedly he was reading an antiquated translation, but I had no difficulty personally in understanding the reading. The final note the priest made was that this fact (the difficult translation), shows that the older way–is definitely not the better way. What shocked me most though, was later, during communion. Note that the church does not have a communion rail, thus they had placed six portable kneelers in front of the alter for communicants, three on one side, three on the other. But before the Father stepped down from the alter to distribute communion to the faithful, from the pews, a layman, dressed in a business suit, stepped up to the alter. There, Father gave the layman a container with some of the consecrated hosts, then both of them stepped down to the home-spun alter rail. The priest distributed communion to those who came and kneeled at the three kneelers on the right, the extraordinary Eucharistic minister distributed to those who came and kneeled on the left. With the two of them, I believe they were able to successfully distribute communion to all of the communicants within about a five minute period.

I have to admit I was surprised, I’ve never seen an extraordinary minister of the Eucharist, or any layperson distribute communion during a Tridentine Mass. Is my experience typical? Abusive? Or is it no big deal and am I making a mountain of a mole-hill? I’d appreciate your responses and thoughts on the matter.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

I’m assuming this is at a parish where the priest also offers the Ordinary Form of the Mass. I suppose it’s not that surprising if at such a parish where parishioners may attend both Masses that a small mix of the old and new may occur in both the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms such as in the Extraordinary Form perhaps the priest may bless people who come up but do not receive Communion where in a parish offering exclusively the Extraordinary Form, the priest there might likely not do this. What you describe at communion is something I’ve thankfully not yet witnessed. I believe the priest is correct about some translations needing to be looked at again. An example of this is when the Centurions asked Our Lord if he was Jesus and his answer was “EGO SUM” (“I AM”) which when they heard they fell back. The current translation has it as “I AM HE.”

 

[1neophyte]

Mountain out of a molehill. Move on.

 

[Usige]

Certainly unusual. The only thing that would give me pause is that Universae Ecclesia is clear that anything from the recent law does not apply if it interferes with the rubrics of the 1962 missal. The rubrics only mention a priest ditributing the Eucharist, but it gets a little hazy on if an EMHC would violate the rubrics since they were not even on the radar in 1962. I know Ecclesia Dei issued a response saying that female altar servers were not allowed in the EF as the rubrics did not allow it. I do not know if EMHCs would fall under the same vein as Pope Paul VI allowed “special ministers” under Immensae Caritatis in 1973, or 11 years after the rubrics used in the EF were lain down. I do know a couple Bishops that have said that the use of female altar servers, EMHCs, and receiving in the hand while standing are not matters of rubrics but discipline and allow the aforementioned under their authority as the moderator of the liturgy in their Diocese. I won’t get involved with how Ecclesia Dei and a given bishop might interpret Summorum Pontificum differently. As they say, that is way above my pay grade.

One thing that you didn’t mention was if the EMHC said “Corpus Domini nostri Iesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam” or a simpler “Body of Christ”/“Corpus Christi”. To be elible to serve they should be able to properly pronounce and understand the formula used in the 1962 liturgical books. It is not lawful to mix the newer form in the previous form of the Mass.

Long and short, it doesn’t matter if it was an abuse or not since you really won’t have much recourse unless your Bishop is a strong proponent of the EF being offered in line with how it was 55 years ago. I have only attended the EF with clergy that have a great devotion to the older form so it seems odd to think about someone offering it while seeming to be unhappy about doing so. The only control you have is to not attend an optional liturgy that bothers you.

 

[dshix]

How odd the the priest would make a comment that the Mass he is currently saying is not superior to the Ordinary Form. During the homily.

Inappropriate much?

 

[judynurse]

A friend and I both want very much to attend a Latin Mass (TLM) in a town about 1 1/2 hrs away. We are both in our 70’s, partially disabled and widowed. Neither of us is able to kneel at all, since we cannot get up again without considerable assistance. Do TLM Masses, (as now practiced) allow for disabled who cannot kneel, and must receive standing? We are also unable to kneel during the Consecration, so usually sit, although we have been to many Masses which allow for standing during the Consecration. (Following an old Jewish custom of standing to pray). We are concerned that we would be refused Communion if unable to kneel (which neither of us can). We both grew to adulthood (after college, actually) in the TLM, and heard Mass in English for the first time in our mid-20’s, so really miss the Latin Mass, and want very much to attend this nearest Latin Mass in the old form. Anyone know the answer, or is it strictly up to the local Parish Priest? (In which case, I would call him to inquire first, then call a day or two ahead to warn him we are coming that Sunday).

 

[Mosestheblack]

A friend and I both want very much to attend a Latin Mass (TLM) in a town about 1 1/2 hrs away. We are both in our 70’s, partially disabled and widowed. Neither of us is able to kneel at all, since we cannot get up again without considerable assistance. Do TLM Masses, (as now practiced) allow for disabled who cannot kneel, and must receive standing? We are also unable to kneel during the Consecration, so usually sit, although we have been to many Masses which allow for standing during the Consecration. (Following an old Jewish custom of standing to pray). We are concerned that we would be refused Communion if unable to kneel (which neither of us can). We both grew to adulthood (after college, actually) in the TLM, and heard Mass in English for the first time in our mid-20’s, so really miss the Latin Mass, and want very much to attend this nearest Latin Mass in the old form. Anyone know the answer, or is it strictly up to the local Parish Priest? (In which case, I would call him to inquire first, then call a day or two ahead to warn him we are coming that Sunday).

Surely the priest would accommodate for you if you are unable to kneel for communion. If he does not allow you to receive communion over something you are unable to control, then he is clearly not a very good priest.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

A friend and I both want very much to attend a Latin Mass (TLM) in a town about 1 1/2 hrs away. We are both in our 70’s, partially disabled and widowed. Neither of us is able to kneel at all, since we cannot get up again without considerable assistance. Do TLM Masses, (as now practiced) allow for disabled who cannot kneel, and must receive standing? We are also unable to kneel during the Consecration, so usually sit, although we have been to many Masses which allow for standing during the Consecration. (Following an old Jewish custom of standing to pray). We are concerned that we would be refused Communion if unable to kneel (which neither of us can). We both grew to adulthood (after college, actually) in the TLM, and heard Mass in English for the first time in our mid-20’s, so really miss the Latin Mass, and want very much to attend this nearest Latin Mass in the old form. Anyone know the answer, or is it strictly up to the local Parish Priest? (In which case, I would call him to inquire first, then call a day or two ahead to warn him we are coming that Sunday).

Don’t be concerned at all. Attend the Extraordinary Form of the Mass if you can!

 

[UpUpAndAway]

A friend and I both want very much to attend a Latin Mass (TLM) in a town about 1 1/2 hrs away. We are both in our 70’s, partially disabled and widowed. Neither of us is able to kneel at all, since we cannot get up again without considerable assistance. Do TLM Masses, (as now practiced) allow for disabled who cannot kneel, and must receive standing? We are also unable to kneel during the Consecration, so usually sit, although we have been to many Masses which allow for standing during the Consecration. (Following an old Jewish custom of standing to pray). We are concerned that we would be refused Communion if unable to kneel (which neither of us can). We both grew to adulthood (after college, actually) in the TLM, and heard Mass in English for the first time in our mid-20’s, so really miss the Latin Mass, and want very much to attend this nearest Latin Mass in the old form. Anyone know the answer, or is it strictly up to the local Parish Priest? (In which case, I would call him to inquire first, then call a day or two ahead to warn him we are coming that Sunday).

I attend Mass in the EF about once a month at the local ICRSS apostolate. Following invasive reconstructive surgery last April to repair a knee injury, I have been unable to kneel for any reason. (Healing is slow but sure; I resumed genuflection three weeks ago and should be able to kneel again someday. Prayers for my recovery would be appreciated.) Those of us so afflicted receive standing at the rail. I did ask one of the canons before attempting this, but had I not done so I wouldn’t have been denied.

You could always ask in advance if you wish to put your mind at ease, but I have yet to meet the priest who would force reception while kneeling to the point that those who can’t kneel are obliged to abstain. Be at peace

 

[johnnyc176]

Do TLM Masses, (as now practiced) allow for disabled who cannot kneel, and must receive standing? We are concerned that we would be refused Communion if unable to kneel (which neither of us can). We both grew to adulthood (after college, actually) in the TLM, and heard Mass in English for the first time in our mid-20’s, so really miss the Latin Mass, and want very much to attend this nearest Latin Mass in the old form. Anyone know the answer, or is it strictly up to the local Parish Priest? (In which case, I would call him to inquire first, then call a day or two ahead to warn him we are coming that Sunday).

No you would not be refused. There are instances where people can not even make it to the altar and if you make him aware of the situation the priest will come to you where you are sitting. What I have seen are people attending the TLM and put their hands out to receive and the priest will indicate that they are to receive on the tongue.

 

[Warwick]

No you would not be refused. There are instances where people can not even make it to the altar and if you make him aware of the situation the priest will come to you where you are sitting. What I have seen are people attending the TLM and put their hands out to receive and the priest will indicate that they are to receive on the tongue.

I have seen this very thing. at my TLM parish, so i agree with whats said. God bless you judy!

 

[PJM]

Hi Everyone!

This is my first post. Ordinarily I just surf around, reading the posts that interest me, not making comments and certainly not posting myself!

This is such an odd situation though, I felt I had to bring it up. I will not reveal in this post the location of the parish or the diocese, because I’m not sure if the following is a serious abuse or simply my own hyper-sensitivity. I’ll let you judge and tell me your thoughts, please.

This past Sunday, 2/19/2017, I attended a parish on the other side of town, specifically to attend the mass in the extraordinary form, also known as the TLM. I was excited to go, since I used to attend Latin masses in my previous diocese which were very well attended and beautiful liturgical events. The mass began as one would normally expect, but I began to worry a bit when after the gospel reading the celebrant began his homily. In his homily, he asked the congregation (about 75 or 100 people, I didn’t count), if they understood the reading for the day. He claimed that the translation to English he was using was confusing and that because of the way it was written, he could not take his eyes off the page when reading in order to look about the room. He suggested this problem was due to the unartful translation and the awkward working. Admittedly he was reading an antiquated translation, but I had no difficulty personally in understanding the reading. The final note the priest made was that this fact (the difficult translation), shows that the older way–is definitely not the better way. What shocked me most though, was later, during communion. Note that the church does not have a communion rail, thus they had placed six portable kneelers in front of the alter for communicants, three on one side, three on the other. But before the Father stepped down from the alter to distribute communion to the faithful, from the pews, a layman, dressed in a business suit, stepped up to the alter. There, Father gave the layman a container with some of the consecrated hosts, then both of them stepped down to the home-spun alter rail. The priest distributed communion to those who came and kneeled at the three kneelers on the right, the extraordinary Eucharistic minister distributed to those who came and kneeled on the left. With the two of them, I believe they were able to successfully distribute communion to all of the communicants within about a five minute period.

I have to admit I was surprised, I’ve never seen an extraordinary minister of the Eucharist, or any layperson distribute communion during a Tridentine Mass. Is my experience typical? Abusive? Or is it no big deal and am I making a mountain of a mole-hill? I’d appreciate your responses and thoughts on the matter.

My ONLY comment in charity is to find another Latin Mass:shrug: Or even the new Ordinary form.

God Bless you

Patrick

Welcome to CAF, stick around!

 

[Kielbasi]

Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers are really not that traditional, they didn’t have this ministry back in the day.

I can see where the OP might have been confused.

 

[John_Yurich_USA]

A friend and I both want very much to attend a Latin Mass (TLM) in a town about 1 1/2 hrs away. We are both in our 70’s, partially disabled and widowed. Neither of us is able to kneel at all, since we cannot get up again without considerable assistance. Do TLM Masses, (as now practiced) allow for disabled who cannot kneel, and must receive standing? We are also unable to kneel during the Consecration, so usually sit, although we have been to many Masses which allow for standing during the Consecration. (Following an old Jewish custom of standing to pray). We are concerned that we would be refused Communion if unable to kneel (which neither of us can). We both grew to adulthood (after college, actually) in the TLM, and heard Mass in English for the first time in our mid-20’s, so really miss the Latin Mass, and want very much to attend this nearest Latin Mass in the old form. Anyone know the answer, or is it strictly up to the local Parish Priest? (In which case, I would call him to inquire first, then call a day or two ahead to warn him we are coming that Sunday).

That is stupid to travel out of town to go to a Latin Mass. When I resided in a town 20 miles away from my current town I attended the Latin Mass once a month on a Sunday in a neighboring parish. The other weekends of the month I attended the Novus Ordo Mass at my previous parish. But since moving down to my current town there is no Latin Mass so I have to only attend the Novus Ordo Mass. There is no way in Hell that I can travel 20 miles to go to the Latin Mass in my previous town since I do not currently drive.

 

[1neophyte]

That is stupid to travel out of town to go to a Latin Mass. When I resided in a town 20 miles away from my current town I attended the Latin Mass once a month on a Sunday in a neighboring parish. The other weekends of the month I attended the Novus Ordo Mass at my previous parish. But since moving down to my current town there is no Latin Mass so I have to only attend the Novus Ordo Mass. There is no way in Hell that I can travel 20 miles to go to the Latin Mass in my previous town since I do not currently drive.

Maybe don’t call people stupid when they are in their 70’s and you’re, uh, younger than that? Welcome to the forum.

 

[corsair]

That is stupid to travel out of town to go to a Latin Mass. When I resided in a town 20 miles away from my current town I attended the Latin Mass once a month on a Sunday in a neighboring parish. The other weekends of the month I attended the Novus Ordo Mass at my previous parish. But since moving down to my current town there is no Latin Mass so I have to only attend the Novus Ordo Mass. There is no way in Hell that I can travel 20 miles to go to the Latin Mass in my previous town since I do not currently drive.

John, I’m sorry you cannot drive but I can and do drive 80 miles each way to the EF Mass every Sunday and Holy Day. And it is not “stupid”. Just say’n.

 

[poche]

Hi Everyone!

This is my first post. Ordinarily I just surf around, reading the posts that interest me, not making comments and certainly not posting myself!

This is such an odd situation though, I felt I had to bring it up. I will not reveal in this post the location of the parish or the diocese, because I’m not sure if the following is a serious abuse or simply my own hyper-sensitivity. I’ll let you judge and tell me your thoughts, please.

This past Sunday, 2/19/2017, I attended a parish on the other side of town, specifically to attend the mass in the extraordinary form, also known as the TLM. I was excited to go, since I used to attend Latin masses in my previous diocese which were very well attended and beautiful liturgical events. The mass began as one would normally expect, but I began to worry a bit when after the gospel reading the celebrant began his homily. In his homily, he asked the congregation (about 75 or 100 people, I didn’t count), if they understood the reading for the day. He claimed that the translation to English he was using was confusing and that because of the way it was written, he could not take his eyes off the page when reading in order to look about the room. He suggested this problem was due to the unartful translation and the awkward working. Admittedly he was reading an antiquated translation, but I had no difficulty personally in understanding the reading. The final note the priest made was that this fact (the difficult translation), shows that the older way–is definitely not the better way. What shocked me most though, was later, during communion. Note that the church does not have a communion rail, thus they had placed six portable kneelers in front of the alter for communicants, three on one side, three on the other. But before the Father stepped down from the alter to distribute communion to the faithful, from the pews, a layman, dressed in a business suit, stepped up to the alter. There, Father gave the layman a container with some of the consecrated hosts, then both of them stepped down to the home-spun alter rail. The priest distributed communion to those who came and kneeled at the three kneelers on the right, the extraordinary Eucharistic minister distributed to those who came and kneeled on the left. With the two of them, I believe they were able to successfully distribute communion to all of the communicants within about a five minute period.

I have to admit I was surprised, I’ve never seen an extraordinary minister of the Eucharist, or any layperson distribute communion during a Tridentine Mass. Is my experience typical? Abusive? Or is it no big deal and am I making a mountain of a mole-hill? I’d appreciate your responses and thoughts on the matter.

As far as the translation that the priest was commenting on, St Clement Hofbaur used to ad lib and make comments on what he felt was a better translation of the readings when he said mass for the people.
I believe that it is incorrect to have a lay Eucharistic minister minister at the Traditional Latin Mass. However anyway I would recommend that we focus on who it is that we are receiving instead of who is the minister at the mass. Jesus’ love for you is so great that he is willing to go through even the most unworthy hands in order to be with you.