Extraordinary Form of the Mass- Roman Rite

[babochka]

That’s when the contemplative prayer of the EF comes into play. It is different from vocal prayer and is covered in that 5-part series put out by the Latin Mass Society.

I worked for a boss back in 1970 who was absolutely livid against the vocal prayers imposed, especially when recited in cadences by the congregation. Claimed too much focus was trying to keep together that it failed to convey a spirit of sincerity, among other things. God isn’t hard of hearing, after all. I believe he had a point.

I can understand the contemplative prayer that would occur during the praying of the canon and would even appreciate that silence in the Mass. I remember reading about it in Cardinal Ratzinger’s *Spirit of the Liturgy *and finding the argument for the silent prayer at this point to be very profound.

I expected the silent canon. I did not realize that the entire Mass would be that way.

Can you explain to me the purpose of the altar server making responses and not the rest of the congregation? Does the server represent the congregation? If so, why do they need a representative when they are present? Yes, I know that there is such a thing as a dialogue Mass, but I am under the impression that it was short-lived and not used in all places. I just spent some time reading through the text of the Mass and it seems entirely appropriate to me that the entire congregation would make the responses that come from the server alone. What is the history here? Has the server always made the responses, or was there a time in the history of the Roman Rite when this sort of participation was the job of the congregation?

 

[ProVobis]

Can you explain to me the purpose of the altar server making responses and not the rest of the congregation? Does the server represent the congregation? If so, why do they need a representative when they are present? Yes, I know that there is such a thing as a dialogue Mass, but I am under the impression that it was short-lived and not used in all places. I just spent some time reading through the text of the Mass and it seems entirely appropriate to me that the entire congregation would make the responses that come from the server alone. What is the history here? Has the server always made the responses, or was there a time in the history of the Roman Rite when this sort of participation was the job of the congregation?

This varies from place to place. Some places frown upon the congregation making responses, but generally where the choir responds with “Et cum spiritu tuo” they seem to be okay with that. Some just don’t like to be shown up not knowing the responses, but I’m no psychologist or sociologist analyzing the mood of the congregation. Come to think of it, this can happen in the OF as well.

 

[weepixie71]

Oh you have brought back beautiful memories by posting your question. Thank you for that.
I actually stumbled upon the Extraordinary Form about 20yrs ago. I was didn’t want to miss Mass but I had to work. I was a waitress at the time at Steak N Shake. When I showed up for Mass in my work uniform (HOW EMBARRASSING ) I see these women all dressed in skirts with veils and men in ties and suits. I was starting to turn around and a beautiful elderly woman lightly grabbed my arm and asked why I was leaving. I told her I thought I was going to a Catholic Mass. Hahahaha. She explained it was Catholic and convinced me to go inside. I felt like I was wearing jeans to a cocktail party . Well I didn’t understand one phrase but a Kerie Eleison. But I watched the priest and his reverence and it was love at first sight. I couldn’t take my eyes off of it. I remember choking up on some tears on the beauty, or the incense. Emotions and smoke were running high that day.
I started to learn by not reading the words. Those came familiar by just listening. I read the red lines that told me what the priest was doing so I knew where we were at. After several Masses I started studying the Latin and English side by side. The priest was kind enough to let me take a missal home. After this following Mass became very simple and easy on my heart.

 

[malphono]

Oh you have brought back beautiful memories by posting your question. …
I started to learn by not reading the words. Those came familiar by just listening. I read the red lines that told me what the priest was doing so I knew where we were at. After several Masses I started studying the Latin and English side by side. The priest was kind enough to let me take a missal home. After this following Mass became very simple and easy on my heart.

Very nice post.

 

[bobballen_18]

I think you have already gotten a number of helpful responses. In terms of literally following along with the Mass - i.e., knowing at all times exactly what is happening - you will have a difficult time doing this in the Latin Mass. But I think one of the most important things to realize is that that is okay! As far as I can tell, it wasn’t until very recently, and especially with the widespread use of the Novus Ordo, that the idea that one had to be literally following every single text of the Mass in order to be “actively participating” in the Liturgy became prevalent.

I’m in the process of doing this myself, as I have lately begun almost exclusively attending the Latin Mass, but I would recommend purchasing or otherwise finding books on how to participate at the Latin Mass. I can’t really recommend much because as I said I have just started this process, but as the 1962 Missal is more or less how Mass was celebrated almost universally (in the Roman Rite) for 400 years, and in some places for the past 1500+ years, there has got to be a wealth of “information” on it - on the Liturgy itself as well as how to “participate” in it. I guarantee you that most of what you would find would not have much to do with following the Mass word for word.

The book (pretty short) I have just purchased is called The Hidden Treasure, Holy Mass - by St. Leonard of Port Maurice (1676-1751). I have already read a couple of excerpts from it and have been blown away by the insights with regards to how the Mass has always been understood and how one participates at the Latin Mass.

Another poster hinted at this - it depends on how determined you are to become familiar with the Latin Mass, but if you are very determined, and your circumstances allow it (and if it is available to this extent), I would advise exclusively attending it, daily if possible, for at least a month. The two forms of the Roman Rite, no matter how reverently/accurately celebrated, are so different in terms of participation and focus that it is difficult to become accustomed to the one which is unfamiliar, unless concentration is shifted almost solely to that unfamiliar one. At least, this has been my experience.

If you don’t take anything else from my post, though, I would like to emphasize once again that it is OK to not always be following the Mass word for word - it is enough to know what is generally happening. Otherwise it is OK to unite your prayers to those of the priest (particularly those prayers in accordance with the four ends/intentions of every Mass) and to become well-disposed to become unified with our Lord in the Mass.

 

[johnnyc176]

I have attended the Extraordinary Form of the Mass in the Roman Rite four or five times now. I try to follow along in the red book that they give us, but I still get lost trying to find which prayers are being said. The liturgy is very beautiful, but I would like to be able to follow along. If you had this problem the first few times you attended the Tridentine Mass, I would appreciate any advice you can give me on how to overcome this problem. Thanks!

It sounds like you are on the same path as I took. I started out using that red book you speak of. Then after about a month I picked up an old St. Joseph’s missal. All told I was able to follow along comfortably in about three months. As a previous comment suggested pay attention to the red instructions of what the priest should be doing at a particular time. This also helped…

newliturgicalmovement.org/2014/11/review-of-treasure-and-tradition.html#.VzOC7oQrK70

but a free guide is available here…

sanctamissa.org/en/

 

[PJM]

I have attended the Extraordinary Form of the Mass in the Roman Rite four or five times now. I try to follow along in the red book that they give us, but I still get lost trying to find which prayers are being said. The liturgy is very beautiful, but I would like to be able to follow along. If you had this problem the first few times you attended the Tridentine Mass, I would appreciate any advice you can give me on how to overcome this problem. Thanks!

Perhaps try to key in on the first few words in Latin of the prayers

 

[corsair]

The red book does not have the “Propers” in it. So that maybe why some new folks get lost.
When our TLM parish first started, we purchased about 300 red booklets then every Saturday one of the men would copy the Propers off of Una Voce’s website and have them printed. We would then stuff them into the red booklets.

Also, look and watch for the little “signal” points in the Mass such as “Oratre Fratres” or a “Dominus vobiscum”. You’ll learn these are usually signals that are easy to find in your missal.

God Bless

 

[LisaB]

Having a full missal instead of just the red booklet will help because you’ll have the propers and not just the ordinary. The propers are the scripture readings and other prayers specific to each day. Even with the missal though, it takes time to get used to it because you have to flip back and forth from the ordinary section to the propers, and if you are lost already all this flipping back and forth doesn’t help. One tool that you may find useful is the iMass app. I believe it’s only available Apple products. The app has the ordinary and the propers combined for each day so no flipping back and forth is required. It becomes one continuous missal for the day. The only concern is that at some parishes using a phone or iPad at mass may be frowned upon, though I really don’t know why.

 

[larsont7]

Another great resource to learn more about the EF is a book entitled “Know Your Mass” by Fr. Demetrius Manousos. It was designed for children as it has a comic book feel to it, but it is has valuable information about the Mass and the different parts of it. I know of adults that have used this book to help them learn more about the Traditional Mass, and they have raved about it.

These also make for great books to bring with you to church if you have young children that are still learning about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. We’ve used them for years and now have 3 boys that are altar servers for the TLM and another who will start serving soon.

 

[Devoted_to_Jude]

I have attended the Extraordinary Form of the Mass in the Roman Rite four or five times now. I try to follow along in the red book that they give us, but I still get lost trying to find which prayers are being said. The liturgy is very beautiful, but I would like to be able to follow along. If you had this problem the first few times you attended the Tridentine Mass, I would appreciate any advice you can give me on how to overcome this problem. Thanks!

1. I would buy this missal to learn about the liturgical actions and theology of the Mass. You say your Church provides you a red book so I am assuming it is the missal published by Coaltion in Support of Ecclesia Dei. Unfortunately, I don’t have any experience with this missal, but the one I am suggesting is only $3.95 on Amazonn and it super user friendly: amazon.com/Roman-Catholic-Sunday-Missal-Booklet/dp/1892331489?ie=UTF8&keywords=latin%20mass%20missal&qid=1465465904&ref_=sr_1_8&sr=8-8
2. After reading all the instructions and commentary and the actual Mass in English a few times, I would then watch the following series (3) of training videos made for priests by the FSSP while following along in the missal: youtube.com/watch?v=ZUCa0pkPBhs
3. Then you can also watch other Missae according to the 1962 Missale Romanum on Youtube.
4. you can also go to the following website to prepare for the reading each Sunday and get a feel for the liturgical year: sanctamissa.org/en/

If they don’t have the propers also you can find them here: tridentine-mass.blogspot.com/

Hope this will be helpful.

 

[Devoted_to_Jude]

Or, you may find that there was reason why 2143 out of 2147 bishops said that the vetus ordo liturgy was in need of reform and of revision.

As a priest, I celebrated both forms of the liturgy. When I was asked by the bishop to provide the vetus ordo, according to the norms of the old indult, to those who had petitioned for it, I did – until, happily, that came to an end. Now, I would never celebrate Mass using the old rite.

Your comments don’t surprise me father. I count a fair number of Roman priests among my friends, and I can tell you that I am constantly shocked by how insufficiently prepared they are to shepherd souls. I am even occasionally able to talk with them openly about this, and ultimately these talks dissuaded me from becoming a priest myself, at least,in the Roman rite.

In fact in the Roman diocese I was formally a member of the only mass I ever attended in the whole Diocese that was actually faithful to Sacrosanctum Concilium was, ironically enough, the Mass under the 1962 missal. So I would say your reasoning about the need for reforms and what the Bishops hoped to achieve by them is much mistaken.

The Mass under the 1962 Missal is no longer celebrated like it was before Vatican II–that is to say that the liturgical issues that prompted the misguided reforms of the liturgy that had been developing in the Roman Church since the middle ages have largely been addressed, ironically, by the destruction of the liturgy carried out in the “spirit” of Vatican II. Consequently, if you go to a Roman rite mass today (as opposed to a New Order Mass) then you will likely find the full and active participation of the Mass that this woman is herself, seeking. After all if she was content to do a private devotion while Mass was being said she wouldn’t be here asking this question now would she?

Interestingly if you actually read the Constitution on the Liturgy from Vatican II then you may comprehend that it really seemed to aim at bringing the Roman liturgy more in line, in terms of participation, with the Eastern Liturgies. The problem here however is that such liturgies are created from the bottom up and not the top down. They are created by fully developed local churches, and a large part of the problem of the Roman Church is that it has insufficiently developed local churches. In my opinion this is why so many Roman rite Catholics are leaving the Church. In reality there is no other entry point into the Universal Church except for the local church and without a local Church no real liturgy (work of the people) is possible.

 

[Devoted_to_Jude]

Also you I would get this book: amazon.com/Pray-Latin-Louis-G-Pizzuti/dp/1449518214?ie=UTF8&keywords=pray%20it%20in%20latin&qid=1465469640&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

Unfortunately it doesn’t have all the Mass parts and it is not mistake free, but it is still worthwhile resource in my opinion. It may help to learn some of your basic prayer’s in Latin, at the very least the Pater Noster (Our Father) since is part of the Mass. Outside of the fact that Latin is a declined language I think it is an easy language for an English speaking person to learn, and you may be surprised how much Latin you pick up just from the Mass.

 

[Devoted_to_Jude]

For my jurisdiction (Ruthenians), there is a strong tradition of congregational singing. We don’t really have a need to read the priest’s prayers, since we have our own (parallel) part. While the priest is praying, we are praying twice (singing). In addition, many of the priest’s prayers are done before the Divine Liturgy begins and he is behind the icon screen, so largely unseen by the congregation.

When the priest, in persona Christi, is in the holy of hollies (if you will), this is one of part of the liturgy that we–although we are nation of priests–can’t join him.The ordained priest here has to go it alone, but we can offer our own prayers along with his.

In terms of the Roman Mass it is important to realize here that unlike all the other prayers you can say along with the priest, the prayers of concentration are for the priest alone. Therefore, it is best to stop following along and instead offer your own intentions to be joined with the priests prayers keeping in mine what is happening liturgically at this moment because we are joined to the passion of Christ being offered to God as a sacrifice and to the body and blood we will consume.

There is an implicit promise being made when taking communion–as to enter the divine mysteries is also as is so clearly stated in Latin to pledge an oath–and in terms of the Eucharist our promise is that we will take up our own cross.

The one thing that is very nice about the Roman Mass (by which I mean the Mass before the New Order Mass) in relationship to the other liturgies is the interior privacy it allows for at this moment. In the Roman Mass we aren’t engaged in a corporate act of prayer here, and so consequently we are able to reflect on the particulars of our life, and since the liturgy is outside of time and space we are able to sacramentally participate with Christ on Good–or Great–Friday as the case may be. We are able to take our petty and personal struggles and have them elevated with Christ’s own sacrifice. In this way our own deification occurs through our own pedestrian sufferings.It is this suffering that we can offer to God even while the priest is offering Christ’s own passion.

 

[Devoted_to_Jude]

Can you explain to me the purpose of the altar server making responses and not the rest of the congregation? Does the server represent the congregation? If so, why do they need a representative when they are present?

This is a reflection of the problems that developed in the Roman Mass going back the middle ages that eventually lead the perceived need for liturgical reforms in the liturgy.

When most people weren’t able to read and even if they were there was no printing to make missals universally affordable and when most people–at least the common people–also no longer spoke Latin, they were unable to participate in the Mass so altar servers stood in their place.

This helped facilitate the wide spread practice of private Masses which in turn reinforced the perverse notion that the liturgy wasn’t for the people who in response turned more and more to performing private devotions during Mass.

If there is any positive thing about the New Order Mass it is that it broke the habit of Roman Catholics passively observing the Mass. It doesn’t necessarily in my experience and observation facilitate real and genuine participation, but it does make such participation possible when a person returns to the Roman Mass.

 

[felsguy]

 

[Constancio05]

Let’s get one thing completely out in the open here and admitted by us all.

Without Saint Marcel Lefebvre, none of us here would have any knowledge of the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite.

 

[Constancio05]

I’d like someone to admit that please.

 

[edwest2]

I was there before and after Vatican II in Catholic School. The St. Joseph Missal had the Latin And English right next to each other. I knew what “Dominus vobiscum et cum spiritu tuo” meant. I had the 1962 Missal, and please let’s understand the distortions that happened after Vatican II correctly.

Pope Benedict:

"In the first place, there is the fear that the document detracts from the authority of the Second Vatican Council, one of whose essential decisions – the liturgical reform – is being called into question.

"This fear is unfounded. In this regard, it must first be said that the Missal published by Paul VI and then republished in two subsequent editions by John Paul II, obviously is and continues to be the normal Form – the Forma ordinaria – of the Eucharistic Liturgy. The last version of the Missale Romanum prior to the Council, which was published with the authority of Pope John XXIII in 1962 and used during the Council, will now be able to be used as a Forma extraordinaria of the liturgical celebration. It is not appropriate to speak of these two versions of the Roman Missal as if they were “two Rites”. Rather, it is a matter of a twofold use of one and the same rite.

“As for the use of the 1962 Missal as a Forma extraordinaria of the liturgy of the Mass, I would like to draw attention to the fact that this Missal was never juridically abrogated and, consequently, in principle, was always permitted. At the time of the introduction of the new Missal, it did not seem necessary to issue specific norms for the possible use of the earlier Missal. Probably it was thought that it would be a matter of a few individual cases which would be resolved, case by case, on the local level. Afterwards, however, it soon became apparent that a good number of people remained strongly attached to this usage of the Roman Rite, which had been familiar to them from childhood. This was especially the case in countries where the liturgical movement had provided many people with a notable liturgical formation and a deep, personal familiarity with the earlier Form of the liturgical celebration. We all know that, in the movement led by Archbishop Lefebvre, fidelity to the old Missal became an external mark of identity; the reasons for the break which arose over this, however, were at a deeper level. Many people who clearly accepted the binding character of the Second Vatican Council, and were faithful to the Pope and the Bishops, nonetheless also desired to recover the form of the sacred liturgy that was dear to them. This occurred above all because in many places celebrations were not faithful to the prescriptions of the new Missal, but the latter actually was understood as authorizing or even requiring creativity, which frequently led to deformations of the liturgy which were hard to bear. I am speaking from experience, since I too lived through that period with all its hopes and its confusion. And I have seen how arbitrary deformations of the liturgy caused deep pain to individuals totally rooted in the faith of the Church.”

Ed

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Let’s get one thing completely out in the open here and admitted by us all.

Without Saint Marcel Lefebvre, none of us here would have any knowledge of the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite.

That is not an applicable title for the late Marcel Lefebvre. In the West, it can only be granted by the pope…and it is assuredly not granted to Marcel Lefebvre.