Extraordinary Form - Scripture Readings

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PDXSeeker_1975

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We have a parish here in my city that offers Traditional Latin Mass every day, including High Mass on Sunday. I’ve been to High Mass twice and both times I did not pick up on a Scripture/Gospel reading. The only part of the Mass that was in English (and the only time anyone approached the lectern) was the homily. Aren’t scripture readings required for a valid mass? Is is possible that they are being read in Latin only and I am just missing it? I admit I am still learning how the whole Latin Mass thing works.

In case anyone else knows the place I am talking about, it is St Francis de Sales Oratory in St. Louis.
 
The Epistle and Gospel are read in both Latin and English. The English part should be right before the Homily. At least that’s how it is in the Latin Low Mass I attend.
 
Right, the English if it’s read is an unofficial translation (DR maybe?) and read as part of the homily. During a High Mass it must be read (or actually sung) untranslated in the Latin.
 
PDXSeeker_1975 said:
We have a parish here in my city that offers Traditional Latin Mass every day, including High Mass on Sunday. I’ve been to High Mass twice and both times I did not pick up on a Scripture/Gospel reading. The only part of the Mass that was in English (and the only time anyone approached the lectern) was the homily. Aren’t scripture readings required for a valid mass? Is is possible that they are being read in Latin only and I am just missing it? I admit I am still learning how the whole Latin Mass thing works.

In case anyone else knows the place I am talking about, it is St Francis de Sales Oratory in St. Louis.
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If there was only one minister (i.e. only the priest, no deacon and subdeacon), then:

The Epistle would have been sung on the south (i.e. right) side of the altar, facing east (i.e “east” is towards the altar). The Gospel would have been sung from the north side of the altar (i.e. left), with the priest facing either north or north-east-ish.

And while it’s customary for the readings to be repeated in English before the homily, it’s not technically required, and priests can decide to dispense with it.
 
Hi PDX:

A suggestion that I would make is that the next time you go, first print out for yourself a copy of the proper for the day you are going:
If it is a weekday, try this site:
maternalheart.org/propers-saints.html#february

If it is a Sunday, try this one:
ususantiquior.wordpress.com/

Even if you are not yet familiar with the ordinary portion, the ‘proper of the day’ will help you follow the readings. Watch for the cues that Porthos pointed out to help. When the priest is standing at the right side (after the Kyrie) and says “Oremus” (let us pray), he will read the Collect, which you will find on your sheet. He will then read the epistle, gradual, and tract (or alleluia), again from your sheet. After the server moves the missal to the left side, the priest will read the Gospel. Hope it helps.
 
There is no requirement that the readings be repeated in the vernacular. When it is done, it is technically not part of the Order of Mass, but a permitted extra-liturgical action. In practice, most daily Masses do not have a sermon, so they do not repeat the readings, either. At our FSSP parish the readings are generally repeated at all Sunday and holy day of obligation Masses, as well as High Masses for first-class feasts. However, we have had some priests and on some occasions choose not to do so.

You can rest assured that the readings were done in Latin. Recently we had visitors new to the EF, and they asked a similar question. They did not realize that that there would be two, not three readings–which was ironic, because it was a special High Mass for St. Thomas Aquinas on a Saturday, and they were not aware that at OF weekday Masses there are also only two readings. The gentleman recognized the gospel because of the incense and candles surrounding it, but had missed the first reading, which was from the old testament.
 
ProVobis said:
Right, the English if it’s read is an unofficial translation (DR maybe?) and read as part of the homily. During a High Mass it must be read (or actually sung) untranslated in the Latin.
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I do believe the Douay-Rheims Bible is an official, not an unofficial, translation, in that it has been recognized by the Holy See, albeit some 400 or more years ago. In fact it was the very first “official” English translation.

I remember being told that in the usus antiquior, after declaring the scripture readings in Latin out of the Missal, the priest was (and is still) permitted, though never required, to read them again in the vernacular, using any vernacular translation that has received the Holy See’s recognitio, and that a recognitio carries no expiration date. If any forum reader knows that (or the next sentence) to be inaccurate and can cite the authoritative documents to demonstrate it, please do correct me.

So theoretically, the priest in an E.F. Mass in the U.S. could legitimately choose to re-read the Epistle (or Lesson) and the Gospel using the Revised New American Bible translation (although in most parishes I’m familiar with, that runs the risk of inciting a walk-out 😉 ).
 
Clevelander said:
So theoretically, the priest in an E.F. Mass in the U.S. could legitimately choose to re-read the Epistle (or Lesson) and the Gospel using the Revised New American Bible translation (although in most parishes I’m familiar with, that runs the risk of inciting a walk-out 😉 ).
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Maybe not so much walk-out as copyright infringements perhaps. Using OF Mass or scripture translations means paying (additional) royalties. The ICEL would be the first to tell you this.
 
ProVobis said:
Maybe not so much walk-out as copyright infringements perhaps. Using OF Mass or scripture translations means paying (additional) royalties. The ICEL would be the first to tell you this.
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Seriously? This interests me. What line does a parish have to cross, in terms of usage or activity, in order to owe royalties to ICEL? Or to Oregon Catholic Press, or whomever?
 
Clevelander said:
Seriously? This interests me. What line does a parish have to cross, in terms of usage or activity, in order to owe royalties to ICEL? Or to Oregon Catholic Press, or whomever?
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icelweb.org/copyright.htm

also catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8806
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The Catholic Church’s problem with charging for ritual texts isn’t limited to ICEL. The approved version of Scripture is under copyright, and royalties are due for using that as well, even though that translation (the New American Bible) is widely considered the least elegant and accurate on the market.
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ProVobis said:
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The Catholic Church’s problem with charging for ritual texts isn’t limited to ICEL. The approved version of Scripture is under copyright, and royalties are due for using that as well, even though that translation (the New American Bible) is widely considered the least elegant and accurate on the market.
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I can appreciate the intent of the Catholicculture’s author but someone may want to inform him that the NAB is not, in fact, widely considered the least elegant and accurate on the market. Is it really less accurate than the Message, NWT, Lego, etc? I think not.

On that note, someone may want to extend him the charity of informing him that the Catholic Church is not a de-nomination. It is sometimes difficult to take someone seriously when they make assertions such as these.
 
sousley said:
It is sometimes difficult to take someone seriously when they make assertions such as these.
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You may find it difficult but nonetheless, from the first source I provided,
Royalties
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Publications subject to royalties
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Any publication produced for sale which contains ICEL translations is subject to a royalty or flat fee. Publications included are books, booklets, pamphlets, cards, diskettes, CD, and other electronic media used for liturgical celebrations or popular participation. Other publications containing ICEL texts but not for use during liturgical celebrations, such as textbooks, commentaries, religious education books and materials, private prayerbooks, recordings, etc. may be assessed a royalty or flat fee.
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I believe some Anglican and Lutheran services still use the ICEL translations (“And also with you” etc) but I might be wrong on this.

It goes into more detail here, including the LOTH and schedule of fees.

.
 
Thanks for the replies. I’m sure this parish is following all the traditional rubrics. I just don’t know what I’m doing with the EF yet. I’ll be sure to prepare and watch for this next time I attend.
 
It’s come to my attention that the ICEL may not be owning the copyrights to the NAB. If that’s the case and the USCCB owns the copyrights, then they would have to be contacted. One would need to find chapter and verses for the vernacular readings I would imagine.
 
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