Extraordinary form?

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I hope this doesn’t get too controversial. 🙂

What do you Eastern rite-ers think of the extraordinary form mass?

I’m Latin rite, but have a strong affinity for the Byzantine liturgy. I investigated Orthodoxy before returning to Rome…so maybe I see the Eastern Catholic Churches as the best of both worlds.

As of now I prefer the Novus Ordo in Latin to the extraordinary form. But I’m sure it would serve me to learn more about it.

Anyhow, just interested in your thoughts from the Eastern perspective.
 
I wasn’t going to say anything at first, but since you raised the issue:

A few weeks ago I attended the low EF a short bus ride away, since I was awake at the time I would have to leave to go.

Language was not an issue. But I really missed the hearty, audible responses from the congregation.
 
bpbasilphx said:
I wasn’t going to say anything at first, but since you raised the issue:

A few weeks ago I attended the low EF a short bus ride away, since I was awake at the time I would have to leave to go.

Language was not an issue. But I really missed the hearty, audible responses from the congregation.
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Remember, some EF masses ARE conducted as “dialogue” masses with audible responses. I guess their heartiness depends alot on them individually, though. 🤷
 
Remember, some EF masses ARE conducted as “dialogue” masses with audible responses. I guess their heartiness depends alot on them individually, though.

I know. Alas, this one wasn’t.
 
I’m a Latin, not an Eastern, but I actually prefer the Byzantine DL to the Latin High Mass, the Latin High Mass to the Ordinary Form of the Mass and the Ordinary Form to the Latin Low Mass. 😛
 
I have no love for, and no disdain for, the EF Roman Mass.

I find the latin symbolism less effective for me in both the OF and the EF, and so I went east.

I don’t mind that it is being made more available. If it brings grace to more people by getting them back to the church, great.
 
belgianwaffles9 said:
Remember, some EF masses ARE conducted as “dialogue” masses with audible responses. I guess their heartiness depends alot on them individually, though. 🤷
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The last DL said (look on) by a priest under the Vatican was a SAID (i.e. not sung) mass.
 
I’ve been attending the Divine Liturgy at a Byzantine Catholic church for several years now and really love it.

Occasionally I will attend Mass at one of the local churches. I have attended the EF at a church in Alhambra and liked it, though felt the same way a previous poster did about the lack of responses. There doesn’t seem to be as much emphasis on active participation by the congregation at the EF - and having said that, I realize that’s part of its appeal for a lot of folks, and respect their right to have it that way!

However, last Sunday I attended a lovely, reverent and quiet (though not oppressively so) OF Mass at a Lithuanian church in Silverlake, CA. It’s hard to describe - the beauty is so fragile that words might destroy it. I’ll just say that I could hear birds singing outside during the Consecration, and it seemed they were joining us in our quiet but heartfelt prayers throughout the Mass. 🙂

And that is one thing I do miss in the Divine Liturgy - the spaces of silence. However, it’s wonderful in so many other ways that I’ll just say - any Liturgy that brings us closer to Christ is a good Liturgy. 👍
 
I’ve finally been able to attend an EF-like Mass (it was a High Dominican Mass, not EF, but very similar) and I must say I didn’t like it much at all. Of course it was the Mass, and the Eucharist was real, and God was present, and we were joined with the angels in praise, but the externals and the “feel” of the Mass was just not for me. I missed the responses by the congregation, and the feel of actually being part of something and not merely an observer. The EF as it is now is definitely not for me.

I’ve been very fortunate to have experienced mostly devout OF Masses, most even using a large amount of Latin, and I love it. My main preference are the Liturgies of the Byzantine Rite, but I have a big place in my heart for a reverent OF for sure.

Peace and God bless!
 
I am very curious to know how common Dialogue masses will be.
I have signed up to sing some gregorian chant for the Sollemnity of Christ the King on November 20 in the tridentine latin mass form, however it had not occurred to me that it may not be a dialogue mass. I suspect I may lose interest if it is not.

If I were the Pope I would attempt to suppress non-dialogue Tridentine Liturgy Masses. If one can give me legitimate reasons why a mass without participation benefits people tell me it.

it is one thing to visit a Russian Patriarchal Churches liturgy with limited response compared to the Arabic Antiochian one not far away. It is another thing altogether to actually ENCOURAGE or tell people to not say the responses…

Goodness sakes I may completely lose interest in being Catholic if Extraordinary form means people turn into pasasive automatons.

😦 hopefully I am overreacting… :confused:
 
Well there are many who would prefer that the assembled faithful remain silent, either because it helps them concentrate and pray personally, or because they feel it is more ‘respectful.’

I think those churches which offer the Extraordinary Form should make both a silent and a dialogue mass available. Obviously most churches offering the EF are fighting hard just to have ONE mass, but in the future I’m sure we’ll see many more EF masses, and people will be able to choose to attend a dialogue or silent mass.
 
Chris_McAvoy said:
I am very curious to know how common Dialogue masses will be.
I have signed up to sing some gregorian chant for the Sollemnity of Christ the King on November 20 in the tridentine latin mass form, however it had not occurred to me that it may not be a dialogue mass. I suspect I may lose interest if it is not.

If I were the Pope I would attempt to suppress non-dialogue Tridentine Liturgy Masses. If one can give me legitimate reasons why a mass without participation benefits people tell me it.

it is one thing to visit a Russian Patriarchal Churches liturgy with limited response compared to the Arabic Antiochian one not far away. It is another thing altogether to actually ENCOURAGE or tell people to not say the responses…

Goodness sakes I may completely lose interest in being Catholic if Extraordinary form means people turn into pasasive automatons.

😦 hopefully I am overreacting… :confused:
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Just as an FYI, the EF celebrates Christ the King on the last Sunday of October. When the OF has Christ the King, the EF celebrates the last Sunday after Pentecost.
 
Well there are many who would prefer that the assembled faithful remain silent, either because it helps them concentrate and pray personally, or because they feel it is more ‘respectful.’
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I think those churches which offer the Extraordinary Form should make both a silent and a dialogue mass available.
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That is a complete misunderstanding of the liturgy on the part of the latin church laity.

Lord have mercy on us.

And yes I mistakenly wrote that the Solemenity was on Nov 20 when it is in fact October 26 . See now even the Western Church has new calendarists and old calendarist temples. :cool:
 
Chris_McAvoy said:
That is a complete misunderstanding of the liturgy on the part of the latin church laity.

Lord have mercy on us.
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In general, one is considered more intelligent when one actually *explains * why one makes claims like that… I think you should say more to defend yoru claim that the laity misunderstands, rather than just you…
 
What I like about the quietness of the EF mass is that it really differentiates the Priest, who is offering the sacrifice, from the laity who are not.

Look at the Orate Fratres:

In the EF:Pray, brethren, that my sacrifice and yours may be acceptable to God the Father Almighty.

In the OF: Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be made…

but sitting in the pew, I have no ability to confect the Eucharist and therefore cannot offer the sacrifice of the Mass.

I will add though that the silence can cause the mind to wander. Missals to follow somewhat along help, as will more familiarity with the Mass
 
SenorSalsa said:
What I like about the quietness of the EF mass is that it really differentiates the Priest, who is offering the sacrifice, from the laity who are not.

Look at the Orate Fratres:

In the EF:Pray, brethren, that **my sacrifice and yours **may be acceptable to God the Father Almighty.

In the OF: Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be made…

but sitting in the pew, I have no ability to confect the Eucharist and therefore cannot offer the sacrifice of the Mass.

I will add though that the silence can cause the mind to wander. Missals to follow somewhat along help, as will more familiarity with the Mass
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Those two phrases are saying the exact samething.
 
Formosus said:
Those two phrases are saying the exact samething.
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I may be playing semantics, but to me saying “my sacrifice and yours” implies that there is the Sacrifice of the Eucharist that the priest offers, and then our self-sacrifice(or whatever else we offer up), that are “gathered together” and offered to God by the priest.

Our sacrifice implies that there is only one sacrifice being offered, and since the most essential sacrifice is the Eucharist, we must also have ownership of that sacrifice, or that we are all offering the sacrifice. But this is not the case
 
It looks like “Our sacrifce” might just be a poor translation of the latin text.

The 1962 EF text - P. Orate fratres, et meum ac vestrum sacrificium acceptabile fiat apud Deum Patrem omnipotentem.

The 1973 OF text- Orate, fratres: ut meum ac vestrum sacrificium acceptabile fiat apud Deum Patrem omnipotem.

The new translation of the OF soon to be released -
Pray, brethren (brothers and sisters),
that my sacrifice and yours
may be acceptable to God,
the almighty Father.

Thankfully that will be remedied. The Our sacrfice though does seem to say the same thing if you look at it properly though.
 
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