Extraordinary Minister Holy Communion Question

[FAB]

Unfortunately, your opinion is contrary to the teachings of the Church; your opinion of this priest is contrary to the dignity and respect each priest deserves.

To disagree with the decision of a priest is not contrary to the dignity or respect he deserves. I can respectfully disagree and work to sway a priest decision if I see it could do harm to the faithful. I have seen priest who would listen to no one’s opinion and do great damage to parishes my eliminating ministries.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

To disagree with the decision of a priest is not contrary to the dignity or respect he deserves. I can respectfully disagree and work to sway a priest decision if I see it could do harm to the faithful. I have seen priest who would listen to no one’s opinion and do great damage to parishes my eliminating ministries.

Look, I don’t want to continue debating this with you. By the Church documents you are clearly wrong in your assessment. You called the priest “ignorant” (although he used this word first) and his actions extremist and a liturgical abuse. I can’t make this anymore clearer for you - you are wrong. There is nothing more that needs to be said other than an apology from you. Let me know if you do so and I’ll congratulate your humility and honor.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

What was Communion like before Vatican II? How long is the line-up at Confession?

The more I research this topic the less comfortable I am with EMHCs. There seems to be a chicken and egg argument going on: the more duties we take away from the priests, the more responsibilities we give to the laity, the less priests we have, thus the need for more laity doing priest roles.

See…I’m thinking since the Church allows it…that she has done all that reasoning for us…by smarter/wiser minds then us…no?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Actually, no it is not. The elimination of this role is what the Church consideres to be the ideal.

As a priest once told an EMHC training class I was observing; “Every prayer for vocations is a prayer for the end to this ministry”. It was a reminder that the ministry only exists when the attending clergy are not capable of distributing the Eucharist in a timely fashion.

If the attending clergy can do so, there really is no need for the ministry.

Do you consider 8 min to be too long for a parish to take to distribute Holy Communion? If so, what is the minimum amount of time you would consider for this to be a timely act?

As I had mentioned, at our parish, we also do not use EMHC’s. Ours is a parish of about 970 registered families. Our pastor distributes Communion to the faithful himself, or with the assistance of our deacon at the largest Sunday Mass. It takes about 8-10, as it is done at the Communion rail (and yes, a person can stand to recieve).

Now why exactly does our pastor need EMHC’s?

I would LOVE to see an increase of vocations to eliminate EMHCS. HOWEVER, I think that to expect every priest currently to distribute Communion themselves is a totally unrealistic opinion. Some parishes don’t have communion rails…or deacons. Heck some parishes share ONE priest…

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

See…I’m thinking since the Church allows it…that she has done all that reasoning for us…by smarter/wiser minds then us…no?

I totally agree with you, Annabelle Marie (such a beautiful name). One of the things I like to tell some of my more zealous Protestant friends is that one of the perks of being Catholic is not having to think! That usually gets a good rise out of them.

In this particular case, the priest has done the analysis and based his decision on Church documents - instruction. He can handle Holy Communion by himself and is thus instructed by the Church to do just that. We should all pray his example becomes standard.

 

[PbloPicasso]

I would LOVE to see an increase of vocations to eliminate EMHCS. HOWEVER, I think that to expect every priest currently to distribute Communion themselves is a totally unrealistic opinion. Some parishes don’t have communion rails…or deacons. Heck some parishes share ONE priest…

Prior to VCII, many if not most people did not receive unless they were current on their obligation to confession … meaning that people went to confession before receiving, same day or saturday before. But now so many more people are receiving [not up to us to judge them] than before. That’s the reasons I believe for the use of EMHCs.

If it takes a priest to serve 5 or even 10 minutes that’s one thing, but to serve for half and hour or greater may not be reasonable. The reason in our parish is that we have 4 masses stacked back to back and this leaves no time to wait an hour to distribute communion by one priest. As I said, with 10 EMHCs it already takes 20 to 30 minutes. all the masses are packed full. We also have at least 6 other servers doing other roles, readings, altar servers, cantor, sacristan and even a choir and pipe organist. Yep, we have a beautiful pipe organ. One of the priests that visits on occasion says the mass in Latin. I’ve even gone to confession with him and he used Latin there too. It’s great. I wish the mass was said in Latin everywhere at least for one mass. However, I really could do without the occasional funky music that appears from nowhere. I’m looking forward to the changes.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Prior to VCII, many if not most people did not receive unless they were current on their obligation to confession … meaning that people went to confession before receiving, same day or saturday before. But now so many more people are receiving [not up to us to judge them] than before. That’s the reasons I believe for the use of EMHCs.

.

We always have an EMHC to distribute the precious blood…at my Sunday/Wed parish. The parish I go to for daily Mass does not distribute the precious blood but they do use one EMHC to assist the priest as people (including me) have to get back to work. Our Sunday Mass takes long enough with the use of EMHC’s. We have 3 Masses on Sunday so any longer would also back one into the other.

Just a question…but also pre-VCII wasn’t the Eucharistic fast longer? So less people received because of that? And now aren’t we encourage to receive daily, if possible?

I don’t know about confession…I always have to wait when I go…so it seems people are making use of it…

 

[PbloPicasso]

We always have an EMHC to distribute the precious blood…at my Sunday/Wed parish. The parish I go to for daily Mass does not distribute the precious blood but they do use one EMHC to assist the priest as people (including me) have to get back to work. Our Sunday Mass takes long enough with the use of EMHC’s. We have 3 Masses on Sunday so any longer would also back one into the other.

Just a question…but also pre-VCII wasn’t the Eucharistic fast longer? So less people received because of that? And now aren’t we encourage to receive daily, if possible?

I don’t know about confession…I always have to wait when I go…so it seems people are making use of it…

The confession lines at our parish with 2 priests has over a 100 people. I would even go as far as to say more, which is wonderful.

And, yes, the fast was longer and was one of the reasons people didn’t receive every Sunday. You are also correct that we are all encouraged to receive daily so long as we are in the a state of grace. But many people prior to VCII would only receive one per year. I know that the Orthodox do not receive every Sunday. They may receive only a few times per year according to some EO I’ve spoken with on CAF.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

The confession lines at our parish with 2 priests has over a 100 people. I would even go as far as to say more, which is wonderful.

That is wonderful news! Not so much that you have one hundred sinners, but that you have one hundred people honest and aware they are in a state of sin and seeking the Sacrament.

I read somewhere recently that this is one of the biggest problems in our Church today. People have abandoned the Sacrament of Confession yet receive the Sacrament of the Eucharist anyway. That by itself if a mortal sin which suggests many people in the Communion line are playing with fire.

Maybe this has something to do with receiving Holy Communion from a member of the laity instead of a priest. Maybe in the back of someone’s mind or conscious it is easier to receive unworthily from your neighbour than a man of God.

 

[Brendan]

So let me rephrase, at this time EMHC have a vital and important role and for the forseeable future. There are parishes with 4000 to 7000 families, You would work your preist and decons to death if there were no EMHC.

I would work them to death???

I have zero part in the decision weither to use EHMC’s or not. By defintion, it would be the decision of the celebrant.

 

[Brendan]

I would LOVE to see an increase of vocations to eliminate EMHCS. HOWEVER, I think that to expect every priest currently to distribute Communion themselves is a totally unrealistic opinion. Some parishes don’t have communion rails…or deacons. Heck some parishes share ONE priest…

Actually, our parish was not build with communion rails. Our pastor lined up a series of prie deu to form a rail

Here is a picture of my daughters First Holy Communion so you can see what I mean

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You can also see the vessel that is used for intinction. ( and my son with the paten)

The fact is, reception at the rail is a LOT more time efficent than using lines and that fact had more bearing on why EMHC’s were not needed in the Tridentine Mass than people who had not been to confession.

It is quite true that there were more substantial rules on the reception of communion ( fasting etc…) but really, more Catholics went to Mass as well, so it balances out.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

Brendan, of course you know this but please allow me to say you have beautiful children. You are truly blessed.

This time of Holy Communion issue is interesting. It makes sense that in parishes with multiple Sunday morning Masses, one has to clear for the next. I suppose that means the last Mass of the day could have an extended Holy Communion without bothering anyone.

Why do some people think Holy Communion has to have a time limit? If you have just received the Blessed Sacrament, isn’t it a wonderful opportunity to spend time in silent prayer? When I go out for a nice meal I’m not thinking, ok, hurry up, let’s get this over with, I"ve got somewhere else I’ve got to be right now.

It is also concerning that in many churches nearly 100% of the people present themselves for Holy Communion while Confession is practically abandoned. Of course we don’t know the state of anyone else’s soul, but it isn’t rocket science to deduce there is something not quite right with the participation level of these two sacraments.

 

[FAB]

I would work them to death???

I have zero part in the decision weither to use EHMC’s or not. By defintion, it would be the decision of the celebrant.

I believe you understood what I was saying. we have parishes that have six and seven masses on a weekend, with full churches. My point is no matter what the ideal, to be able distribute communion EMHC are indeed necessary.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

That is wonderful news! Not so much that you have one hundred sinners, but that you have one hundred people honest and aware they are in a state of sin and seeking the Sacrament.

I read somewhere recently that this is one of the biggest problems in our Church today. People have abandoned the Sacrament of Confession yet receive the Sacrament of the Eucharist anyway. That by itself if a mortal sin which suggests many people in the Communion line are playing with fire.

Maybe this has something to do with receiving Holy Communion from a member of the laity instead of a priest. Maybe in the back of someone’s mind or conscious it is easier to receive unworthily from your neighbour than a man of God.

I think that is a BIG leap to make. In reality most people have no idea which side the priest is going to be on.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Actually, our parish was not build with communion rails. Our pastor lined up a series of prie deu to form a rail

It is quite true that there were more substantial rules on the reception of communion ( fasting etc…) but really, more Catholics went to Mass as well, so it balances out.

You miss the entire point. Just because your priest does it DOES not mean that it is practical for all parishes. Holy Mother church allows EMHC’s…she must have a good reason for it…she would not put the faithful in danger.

I personally can see some of those reasons.

Oh…and our church does not have the space for an altar rail…so that in all practicality would not work.

Another poster talked about why does there have to be a time limit…I don’t know…backed up Masses…people have to get to work for the daily Masses…there aren’t enough priests. Take your pick.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

I think that is a BIG leap to make. In reality most people have no idea which side the priest is going to be on.

I don’t know the set-up or architecture in your church Annabelle Marie, but in mine and most I can think of it is obvious where the priest is and where the EMHCs are stationed.

I’m just speculating…no judgement…just trying to connect a few dots.

 

[Brendan]

I believe you understood what I was saying. we have parishes that have six and seven masses on a weekend, with full churches. My point is no matter what the ideal, to be able distribute communion EMHC are indeed necessary.

In some parishes, yes, but not all.

And yes, my parish has 7 Masses each weekend. On Saturday, a 4:00pm Mass and a 6:30pm EF Mass

On Sunday, we have Masses at 7:00am, 9:30am, 11:30am, 1:30pm and 8:00pm

We used to have an associate pastor, but he was reassigned. Our pastor relies on retired priests to come on for 2 of the Masses.

We have a deacon who assists at the 9:30am Mass. After Mass the deacon brings Holy Communion to the homebound.

My pastor is out at each Mass distrubuting Holy Communion. The retired priest who celebrates the 1:30pm Mass generally does not assist due to age ( it’s asking a lot of him to stand for the Consecration, God Bless Him )

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I don’t know the set-up or architecture in your church Annabelle Marie, but in mine and most I can think of it is obvious where the priest is and where the EMHCs are stationed.

I’m just speculating…no judgement…just trying to connect a few dots.

Well in mine…if you are at the back or the side…yes you are not going to get the priest. But he switches sides so if you are in the middle…you don’t know.

And I still think the speculation is a BIG leap to make…

 

[Brendan]

You miss the entire point. Just because your priest does it DOES not mean that it is practical for all parishes. Holy Mother church allows EMHC’s…she must have a good reason for it…she would not put the faithful in danger.

I personally can see some of those reasons. .

I know they are legit and yes, I can see some of the reasons.

My point is that they are not required everywhere, and that if a priest looks at his parish and decides that they are not needed, that’s fine by me.

As the Church noted, they should only be used out of “True Necessity”. That means the default should be no EMHC’s.

Redemptionis Sacramentum 151

Only out of true necessity is there to be recourse to the assistance of extraordinary ministers in the celebration of the Liturgy. Such recourse is not intended for the sake of a fuller participation of the laity but rather, by its very nature, is supplementary and provisional. Furthermore, when recourse is had out of necessity to the functions of extraordinary ministers, special urgent prayers of intercession should be multiplied that the Lord may soon send a Priest for the service of the community and raise up an abundance of vocations to sacred Orders

Is it ‘necessary’ to distrubute both species in the form of a chalice, or at all. In some dioceses, there is a mandate from the bishop. So yes, it is necessary.

Is it necessary to reduce the time of communication from 20 min to 10 min. Sometimes yes, back to back Masses for example.

But when a pastor decides that it is NOT necessary to do the above, a great case can be made that he is acting if full obedience to the instructions of the Church on the use of EMHC’s.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

Well in mine…if you are at the back or the side…yes you are not going to get the priest. But he switches sides so if you are in the middle…you don’t know.

And I still think the speculation is a BIG leap to make…

Well, that’s your church and that’s fine. We should be careful not to assume the ways of one’s personal church automatically stand for all the others.

I’m fond of intellectual curiousity and discussion. I find it amusing to talk with conspiracy theorists. I believe the brain is like any other muscle, it improves with use and stretching improves flexibility. If more people took time to think, to inquire, I believe we’d be better off.

Again, I don’t want to assume what goes on in your parish is indictitive of the whole, but what’s the turnout at your weekly Sacrament of Confession? Mine is poorly attended. So poorly attended that if you aren’t there right at four o’clock on Saturday afternoon, Father is likely to move onto other things. I have many other things I could be doing on a Saturday afternoon as well. Given that only a couple people each week are there confessing, yet nearly everyone goes to Communion the next day, I think it is safe to at least ask the question.

This is another reason I am not comfortable in becoming an EMHC. Given my suspicions I may be an accessory to another’s sin by distributing the Blessed Sacrament to a body of people in which many of whom are not properly disposed.

Already I’m anticipating the counter-arguments i.e. who am I to know the state of their souls, maybe they all go to Confession somewhere else, maybe you are in the presence of a legion of saints, etc. I’m not here to condemn anyone, just revealing my feelings and some elementary deduction. I welcome civil and charitable responses.