O
OurLadyPerpHelp
Guest
He’s passing other ciboriums or giving the Ministers Holy Communion.
- Status
O
OurLadyPerpHelp
Guest
Because I don’t wish to be associated with anyone not acting appropriately. I don’t want to be an accessory to their sin, if in fact that is what is happening. If my priest told me to take the Lord’s name in vain, I would refuse.
Z
zab
Guest
OurLadyPerpHelp, you asked me, "Is it true that if something isn’t in the GIRM then it’s forbidden? " I was trying to answer your question the best way that I could, simply stating that I am no expert and telling you what I would do. That is all.
O
OurLadyPerpHelp
Guest
Thank you for your help, zab. My priest will be expecting my answer to his request for me to become an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion (I think I"m going to start using the acroynm soon). If I tell him I don’t want to, I expect he’ll want to know why. I can’t lie to him and also want to know I’m right in thinking the current practices of the EMHCs (that was easier) are not by the rubics thus I can’t be associated with them.
Z
zab
Guest
From what you have written, I would feel the same as you and I would tell him why I would not feel right doing the things that I have come to understand are not being done correctly.
J
JRKH
Guest
I understand this and applaud it. However there is another side to it. If they are acting in good conscience under the direction of the pastor, they are not committing a sin (though the priest might be if this is indeed an abuse…) So you could not be an accessory to their sinning…
And where there ARE people knowingly acting inappropriately, others refusing to serve - appropriately does nothing to correct the bad behavior.
By asking the question here it appears that you would be willing to serve so long as you are sure there is no abuse taking place. Have you asked your priest about this practice? Perhaps you could ask him for the “training materials”. Simply tell him that you would like to look them over before deciding if you feel comfortable being and EMHC.
There may well be an appropriate and reasonable explanation.
You have already searched and asked…There seems to be no clear cut answer… Why not ask you rpastor about it?
Peace
James
E
estesbob
Guest
Same here. I told my priest I would not be comfortable doing this and it was no problem on his part.
Z
zab
Guest
I agree with James. But I will also say that it seems that we should give your pastor credit for asking you to serve as EMHC. Why did he think that you would be a good choice? You would be doing your duty by responding to your pastor telling him of your concerns.
T
The_Old_Medic
Guest
I am happy that so many of you live in Dioceses that have an adequate number of priests and Deacons.
My Diocese (Owensboro in Kentucky) does NOT have an adequate number of ordained clergy. We just began our first Permanent Deacon classes two years ago, and they won’t be ordained for another 3 years. We are importing Priests from India, Africa, etc., and still do not have enough.
In my Parish, it would take way more than an hour to distribute Communion if we did not utilize Extraordinary Ministers, (and there would not be distribution under both species),. Even with 11 extraordinary ministers, it takes about 15-20 minutes to get everyone taken care of.
You can carp, complain, and generally get upset about anything. The reality is, in the vast majority of parishes, without extraordinary ministers, a lot of the people would end up leaving without receiving the Eucharist.
My Diocese (Owensboro in Kentucky) does NOT have an adequate number of ordained clergy. We just began our first Permanent Deacon classes two years ago, and they won’t be ordained for another 3 years. We are importing Priests from India, Africa, etc., and still do not have enough.
In my Parish, it would take way more than an hour to distribute Communion if we did not utilize Extraordinary Ministers, (and there would not be distribution under both species),. Even with 11 extraordinary ministers, it takes about 15-20 minutes to get everyone taken care of.
You can carp, complain, and generally get upset about anything. The reality is, in the vast majority of parishes, without extraordinary ministers, a lot of the people would end up leaving without receiving the Eucharist.
O
OurLadyPerpHelp
Guest
What was Communion like before Vatican II? How long is the line-up at Confession?
The more I research this topic the less comfortable I am with EMHCs. There seems to be a chicken and egg argument going on: the more duties we take away from the priests, the more responsibilities we give to the laity, the less priests we have, thus the need for more laity doing priest roles.
Z
zab
Guest
I was born and raised in a small Midwestern town. Before Vatican II, our small parish had three priests. I now attend a parish with more than 1200 families (and many of those families have many children. We have several families with 10 or more children. For over 20 years, we have had only one priest in residence. We used to have a retired priest to offer Mass on the pastor’s day off, but old priest eventually die. We still have retired priest to visit occassionally when our pastor is on retreat or on vacation. I do believe that EMHC are needed in parishes like ours. But I still think that there are times when we could do without the assistance of the EMHC particularly at daily Mass when the deacon is gone.
O
OurLadyPerpHelp
Guest
From Father Z’s blog today:wdtprs.com/blog/2011/02/pastor-of-two-parishes-ends-use-of-extraordinary-ministers-of-communion/
“This weekend we made the move to refrain from the use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. [NB] Thanks to this internet age in which we live, the appropriate teaching on this was hard to escape. [Reverend Fathers, have you read Ecclesiae de mysterio?] Up to now, I hid behind my “ignorance”, but once I received the truth, the culpability of my dissent became more grave. I could no longer cower behind my lack of knowledge. My conscience got the better of me as I realized my dissent would now be direct.”
“This weekend we made the move to refrain from the use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. [NB] Thanks to this internet age in which we live, the appropriate teaching on this was hard to escape. [Reverend Fathers, have you read Ecclesiae de mysterio?] Up to now, I hid behind my “ignorance”, but once I received the truth, the culpability of my dissent became more grave. I could no longer cower behind my lack of knowledge. My conscience got the better of me as I realized my dissent would now be direct.”
F
FAB
Guest
The rubics of the mass indicate that no one except the priest and deacons are to approach the altar before the priest takes communion. Ususally the transfer takes place before this point. If the distributionis taking place after that point, the rubics indicate that the EMHC are to given either the ceborium or the cup, by the priest or deacon, for distribution. So the short anwer is no EMHC should not be transfering the precious body.
O
OurLadyPerpHelp
Guest
What happens to the “crumbs”?
F
FAB
Guest
Often on this site I read post of how “liberal” or “progressive” priest perform liturgical abuses. I’m afraid that this preist who made the post is also misinformed, or perhaps pushing an oposite agenda. EMHC are allowed by the GIRM, to eliminate their use completely seems also to be an abuse. He seems to only be extending his own “ignorance”.
Z
zab
Guest
It is interesting that Fr. Z points to the internet as the means of his enlightenment. The internet is being more widely used now by pastors many of them coming from a younger generation that some of us. But I don’t doubt that there may still be some pastors who have not yet gotten on board with the internet. Judge Judy and other well known well-to-do individuals have been slower than many poorer people to use the internet.
P
PbloPicasso
Guest
Assuming the Eucharist is handled properly we all place the remaining cebrorium, we hold our hands together until we walk to the back of the church, behind the sacred space, and wash our hands in a bowl filled with warm water. We towel dry and then hand the towel to the next EMHC. Those carrying the precious blood walk to the back with the chalice covered by the purificator and then hand the chalice to the sacristan who is trained and in charge of that particular part of cleaning appropriately. Everything is done with great reference. No talking is supposed to occur, but sometimes people express something that happened to them while serving with surprise.
My complaint is that even our parish priest, though very orthodox in many ways, even blesses with the thumb he just used to serve the Eucharist. It seems logical not to do this, yet it’s still done. The body of Christ is contained within the smallest crumb as far as I’m concerned until it is diluted properly and poured in a diluted state into the ground in the saquarium (??). It’s a huge ordeal.
As far as a lay person transferring hosts during the mass, that is never done and I’ve yet to see it here. Yet at UD I’ve seen a lay person do this, but then I’ve heard a lot of illicit things take place there. I’ve seem some of them. The EMHCs that take the Eucharist to the sick are expected to leave immediately, which isn’t always adhered to properly, even though it is emphasized. A lot of lay folks volunteering have good intentions, yet they don’t always seem to follow the rules - whether ignorant or not. The intentions of good are there though.
Personally I get irritated with clergy that seem to throw the Eucharist around as if it isn’t precious. They also tend to almost toss the Eucharist in the mouth rapidly trying to get through the crowd of people standing in line. In our parish’s case, we do need EMHCs or more clergy for communion. If you stop and think about it, if there is no one to distribute the precious blood this would be missed in the Latin rite, which is a pet peeve of mine having been exposed to mandatory receipt of both elements. As I said before, this is why I lean towards Eastern Orthodoxy (especially in communion with Rome) on this particular subject.
- Status