Extraordinary ministers and mortal sin

[Ruth_Catherine]

I know we have a priest shortage and many times these extraordinary ministers are needed and the catechism allows them in certain, needed instances but I heard a question posed on Catholic Answers Radio recently and the answer certainly gave me cause to wonder.

The person asked whether or not pro-abortion politicians should be given communion when the priest knows they are in a state of mortal sin. After conversation regarding this issue the caller asked what Eucharistic minsters should do. His turning the question to Eucharistic ministers is what made me ask these questions in my mind - How does an extraordinary minister handle this? If someone who the minister thought or knew was in a state of mortal sin when they come to communion, what should the minister do? What about in a hospital setting and the minister doesn’t know and it isn’t really they’re place to discern?

Or maybe the host of Catholic Answers had the best answer. This was his answer to the question, “that’s why I am not a Eucharistic minister.”

More and more I come to believe that we need to pray for more, stronger, faithful Catholic priests and maybe we won’t need Extraordinary ministers anymore. Nothing personal if anyone reads this who is an extraordinary minister. I just feel more priests are best.

 

[ConstantineTG]

IIf someone who the minister thought or knew was in a state of mortal sin when they come to communion, what should the minister do?

No one knows the state of our sin except ourselves and Christ. With ever second passing thoughout the day, a sinner may repent and a saint may fall from grace. That is why discernment on worthiness on receiving the Eucharist falls on the communicant and their confessor.

In case of public figures who has voiced out positions that can cause scandal (this is how the Church says it, not about the minister knowing the state of one’s soul), this issue is to be decided by the Bishop and/or the pastor of the parish.

 

[Crumpy]

first I will relate my experience.

My mother is 87 and what you would call “home-bound” except that I have to take her on trips by car daily. I have to use a wheel chair to get her to the car, due to her orthopedic conditions.

Well, the local Eucharistic minister claims she is never at home when she calls with the Eucharist. This EM does not come around at what I would call regular intervals. It turns out, she always calls at the lunch hour, when I am out with my mother.

My mother went without the Eucharist for six years, as best as I can estimate.

I sent the lady a note saying my mother is home 22 hours a day, in general. And, if we knew when the lady was coming, she would definitely be here. Well, no response. No phone calls. THEN, the lay minister ex-Communicated my mother! She said she wasn’t going to bring communion around anymore. To the point, she and none of the six lay members of the parish staff, were going to announce when this lady was coming around – this is the key piece of information.

The irony was that this communication was a note in, of all things, a Christmas card.

Well. I set the card aside for 8 months. I certainly didn’t fly off the handle. But, I then did write the priest a note complaining about the lady’s lack of judgment. I didn’t think it was her decision to make, all by herself. I then aimed at the priest, and chided him for having no oversight over the home visitations – six years – give me a break. I told him not to send ANYBODY around. I didn’t want to see anybody from the parish representing him. He has driven me nuts about other issues, and this was the last straw. I informed the priest that were were socially and spiritually damaged from this experience.

To say the least, there was no apology from the priest. He gets his three weeks of vacation per year. He took 18 weeks of vacation for his own leisure, when my mother was high and dry.

I am reluctant to have strange parish members coming around here who my mother does not know. Yes, that’s my final decision.

This situation said to me that they only had time for the “good” people and that my mother was not one of them. Whatever they do 24 hours a day, they were not looking out for my mother’s welfare.

I gave up my job, my career, and my income to take care of my mom, which I have done for 11 years, so far, praise God. If they can’t support me and how I take care of her, well, OK then.

This is on the other side of the issue in this thread, where Eucharistic ministers are making independent judgments. This one and the one in the OP show that they should not be too independent in judging people – in my opinion. This was a similar decision to not give Communion to a person, like in the OP.

 

[jsaldar]

Well how can the Eucharistic minister judge someone? Who knows how many Eucharistic minister might not even be in a state of grace themselves.

This is where Mathew 7:5 applies
“first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye”

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Rule #1 - no one is to be embarrassed if they come for Communion. The duty of an EMHC is to give Communion - PERIOD. If you have doubts or problems, give the person Communion and take it up with the priest later.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Well how can the Eucharistic minister judge someone? Who knows how many Eucharistic minister might not even be in a state of grace themselves.

This is where Mathew 7:5 applies
“first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye”

No one is to judge anyone. There is only one judge, Jesus Christ.

 

[DaughterOfMary6]

When I was training to be an EMHC, I was told to never refuse anyone the Blessed Sacrament, even when I had reason to believe that they should not be receiving. I am not a priest, and, therefore, I don’t have the right to refuse anyone. We were encouraged to discuss our concerns after Mass with the priest and let him decide what the appropriate course of action would be.

 

[Marie5890]

When I was training to be an EMHC, I was told to never refuse anyone the Blessed Sacrament, even when I had reason to believe that they should not be receiving. I am not a priest, and, therefore, I don’t have the right to refuse anyone. We were encouraged to discuss our concerns after Mass with the priest and let him decide what the appropriate course of action would be.

I was taught the same thing in our archdiocese training. We have no idea of that person had gone to Confession or not, etc. etc.

It’s not a judgement call we are to make. Period.

 

[PiousTemplar]

first I will relate my experience.

My mother is 87 and what you would call “home-bound” except that I have to take her on trips by car daily. I have to use a wheel chair to get her to the car, due to her orthopedic conditions.

Well, the local Eucharistic minister claims she is never at home when she calls with the Eucharist. This EM does not come around at what I would call regular intervals. It turns out, she always calls at the lunch hour, when I am out with my mother.

My mother went without the Eucharist for six years, as best as I can estimate.

I sent the lady a note saying my mother is home 22 hours a day, in general. And, if we knew when the lady was coming, she would definitely be here. Well, no response. No phone calls. THEN, the lay minister ex-Communicated my mother! She said she wasn’t going to bring communion around anymore. To the point, she and none of the six lay members of the parish staff, were going to announce when this lady was coming around – this is the key piece of information.

The irony was that this communication was a note in, of all things, a Christmas card.

Well. I set the card aside for 8 months. I certainly didn’t fly off the handle. But, I then did write the priest a note complaining about the lady’s lack of judgment. I didn’t think it was her decision to make, all by herself. I then aimed at the priest, and chided him for having no oversight over the home visitations – six years – give me a break. I told him not to send ANYBODY around. I didn’t want to see anybody from the parish representing him. He has driven me nuts about other issues, and this was the last straw. I informed the priest that were were socially and spiritually damaged from this experience.

To say the least, there was no apology from the priest. He gets his three weeks of vacation per year. He took 18 weeks of vacation for his own leisure, when my mother was high and dry.

I am reluctant to have strange parish members coming around here who my mother does not know. Yes, that’s my final decision.

This situation said to me that they only had time for the “good” people and that my mother was not one of them. Whatever they do 24 hours a day, they were not looking out for my mother’s welfare.

I gave up my job, my career, and my income to take care of my mom, which I have done for 11 years, so far, praise God. If they can’t support me and how I take care of her, well, OK then.

This is on the other side of the issue in this thread, where Eucharistic ministers are making independent judgments. This one and the one in the OP show that they should not be too independent in judging people – in my opinion. This was a similar decision to not give Communion to a person, like in the OP.

For goodness sake. I don;t have any advice to give but surely they would of done something?

 

[Dragonslayer]

For goodness sake. I don;t have any advice to give but surely they would of done something?

I’m the same, crumpy. That’s just bizzare, and terrible. I can only suggest you get out of there. Find another Priest and another Parish.

 

[fred_conty]

Join a neighboring parish. Then put her on the sick list for communion.

Or you might call the bishop’s office and ask for a priest. Then explain the situation to him and ask what he thinks might be done to correct this.

 

[Margie9]

Hey! Hey! I am bursting with sympathy and righteous indignation on behalf of your elderly mother. WHY ARE WE LAY PEOPLE SO PASSIVE WHEN WE HAVE RIGHTS! It is not the job of the EMHC to make any judgments; they perform the prayers and give Communion. They are not ordained! It’s for the recipient to decide if they need to go to Confession.

It is the responsibility…not option…but responsibility…of your parish priest to get your mother Communion on some regular basis. The priest is the ORDINARY MINISTER OF HOLY COMMUNION. Get that! #1. Head Honcho. Chief. Boss. Pastor. That’s why this chick and so many like her are called the EXTRA-ordinary Minister of Holy Communion (EMHC). #2, back-up, support, extra help, etc.

So since the woman refused to fulfill her obligation to your mother (and there are rules), it is the priest’s job to come by with Communion, whether or not he likes it. It’s not an optional thing. Either he tells the woman to perform her duty or he has to do it, or assign someone else.

This matter should have been elevated to the priest after a month or two. My priest is 83 and would NEVER let anyone go without Communion, and we are in a rural area with unpaved roads, hazards, etc.

If a priest cannot figure a way to get Communion to a home bound old lady, he is not much of a priest. And that is what’s wrong with the Church in this country today; we let priests get away with being part-time business managers, not priests. NOT ALL, certainly. But there is no excuse to treat someone like this.

 

[mac315]

I am reluctant to have strange parish members coming around here who my mother does not know. Yes, that’s my final decision.

According to everything else you said, you have every right to be angry. However, the decision you made is an over reaction, I believe, and I would urge you to reconsider for the sake of your mother if nothing else.

She needs more than just an EMHC, she needs a priest also. As Catholics, we are bound to confess at leat once a year. I don’t know if it is possible to get a dispensation in your mothers circumstances but I would think it should be.

I would definitely make a copy of that Christmas card and forward it with a strongly worded letter to the Bishop of your diocese. Maybe you could talk to another priest and arrange to take your mother by to see him while you have her out on one of your car trips. Look to see if there is a traditional latin parish in your community. Those priests take these things seriously and work hard to administer the sacraments. Get her enrolled in the brown scapular and don’t let your hurt feelings cause you to become stubborn and deprive yourselves of the sacraments out of spite - you’re not only hurting yourself but your mother too and both of your soul’s eternal salvation depends on it.

Be assured of my prayers for both of you.

 

[nannymar]

I know we have a priest shortage and many times these extraordinary ministers are needed and the catechism allows them in certain, needed instances but I heard a question posed on Catholic Answers Radio recently and the answer certainly gave me cause to wonder.

The person asked whether or not pro-abortion politicians should be given communion when the priest knows they are in a state of mortal sin. After conversation regarding this issue the caller asked what Eucharistic minsters should do. His turning the question to Eucharistic ministers is what made me ask these questions in my mind - How does an extraordinary minister handle this? If someone who the minister thought or knew was in a state of mortal sin when they come to communion, what should the minister do? What about in a hospital setting and the minister doesn’t know and it isn’t really they’re place to discern?

Or maybe the host of Catholic Answers had the best answer. This was his answer to the question, “that’s why I am not a Eucharistic minister.”

More and more I come to believe that we need to pray for more, stronger, faithful Catholic priests and maybe we won’t need Extraordinary ministers anymore. Nothing personal if anyone reads this who is an extraordinary minister. I just feel more priests are best.

First let me clarify your terminology and in doing so it may help to clarify your impression of just who we are. We are not the Eucharistic Minister, the priest is first always. We are EMHC=Extra-ordinary ministers of Holy Communion. We know our limits, at least I feel I do(you can correct me). We distribute Communion to help the priest. He is in charge. He decides if someone should not be given Holy Communion not EMHC. We are told, this is not our decision but the priest. We distribute Holy Communion and are not to deny anyone Communion unless we are specifically told by the Pastor and this has never happenned as long as I have been in this ministry.
The host of Catholic Answers was right: that’s why I am not a Eucharistic minister" which would be a priest. We do not get Catholic Answers radio in Vermont, at least I don’t.

 

[paperwight66]

She needs more than just an EMHC, she needs a priest also. As Catholics, we are bound to confess at leat once a year. I don’t know if it is possible to get a dispensation in your mothers circumstances but I would think it should be.
.

No, that’s not so, and might make the OP worry unnecessarily.

We are only bound to confess mortal sins, not venial ones, according to Canon Law (number 989, IIRC)

It is not a blanket requirement. It would be a shame to cause the OP’s mother stress by telling her it was.

 

[nannymar]

first I will relate my experience.

My mother is 87 and what you would call “home-bound” except that I have to take her on trips by car daily. I have to use a wheel chair to get her to the car, due to her orthopedic conditions.

Well, the local Eucharistic minister claims she is never at home when she calls with the Eucharist. This EM does not come around at what I would call regular intervals. It turns out, she always calls at the lunch hour, when I am out with my mother.

My mother went without the Eucharist for six years, as best as I can estimate.

I sent the lady a note saying my mother is home 22 hours a day, in general. And, if we knew when the lady was coming, she would definitely be here. Well, no response. No phone calls. THEN, the lay minister ex-Communicated my mother! She said she wasn’t going to bring communion around anymore. To the point, she and none of the six lay members of the parish staff, were going to announce when this lady was coming around – this is the key piece of information.

The irony was that this communication was a note in, of all things, a Christmas card.

Well. I set the card aside for 8 months. I certainly didn’t fly off the handle. But, I then did write the priest a note complaining about the lady’s lack of judgment. I didn’t think it was her decision to make, all by herself. I then aimed at the priest, and chided him for having no oversight over the home visitations – six years – give me a break. I told him not to send ANYBODY around. I didn’t want to see anybody from the parish representing him. He has driven me nuts about other issues, and this was the last straw. I informed the priest that were were socially and spiritually damaged from this experience.

To say the least, there was no apology from the priest. He gets his three weeks of vacation per year. He took 18 weeks of vacation for his own leisure, when my mother was high and dry.

I am reluctant to have strange parish members coming around here who my mother does not know. Yes, that’s my final decision.

This situation said to me that they only had time for the “good” people and that my mother was not one of them. Whatever they do 24 hours a day, they were not looking out for my mother’s welfare.

I gave up my job, my career, and my income to take care of my mom, which I have done for 11 years, so far, praise God. If they can’t support me and how I take care of her, well, OK then.

This is on the other side of the issue in this thread, where Eucharistic ministers are making independent judgments. This one and the one in the OP show that they should not be too independent in judging people – in my opinion. This was a similar decision to not give Communion to a person, like in the OP.

Be grumpy no more. Become a EMHC. Problem solved. I can not speak of other parishes of couse. But in our parish when there is a communicant like your mother, the priest can give you permission to bring your mother communion. You first have to be first to receive. I have seen a close relative, like yourself, receive Comminion and hold the pyx for the priest to place Communion for their family member. And he returns to his or her seat til the end of Mass. After Mass he immediately returns home with Communion for the family member. God speed!

 

[mac315]

No, that’s not so, and might make the OP worry unnecessarily.

I don’t think I am unnecessarily worrying anyone. On the contrary, I think it is quite uncharitable to placate someone’s conscience by falsely assuring them that they are in no need of reconciliation; particularly when you know they have been without any of the sacraments for at least six years. In fact, if one were to knowingly placate the conscience of someone they know to be in a state of mortal sin, they too would be guilty of a mortal sin. Perhaps now would be a good time to review the 6 precepts of the church, which include:

• to go to confession at least once a year;
• to receive the Blessed Sacrament at least once a year and that at Easter or thereabouts;
Link to source

Even the section of canon law you reference reiterates the requirement of annual confession. I would think that going six years without committing a single mortal sin, while possible, would be quite extraordinary. It is also a good practice to confess venial sins:

While mortal sin is the necessary matter of confession, venial sin is sufficient matter, as are also the mortal sins already forgiven in previous confessions. This is the common teaching of theologians, …to admonish their penitents and in sermons 'exhort them that they confess to their own priests at least once a year, assuring them that this will undoubtedly conduce to their spiritual welfare" (Denzinger, “Enchir.”, 470).

Link to source

Furthermore, our conversion to Christ never ceases as stated in the Catechism:

1426
…Nevertheless the new life received in Christian initiation has not abolished the frailty and weakness of human nature, nor the inclination to sin that tradition calls concupiscence, which remains in the baptized such that with the help of the grace of Christ they may prove themselves in the struggle of Christian life.14 This is the struggle of conversion directed toward holiness and eternal life to which the Lord never ceases to call us.15

1457
According to the Church’s command, "after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year."56 Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57

1464
Priests must encourage the faithful to come to the sacrament of Penance and must make themselves available to celebrate this sacrament each time Christians reasonably ask for it.70

Link to source

I have truly done my best to refrain from being inappropriately judgmental realizing there is much more involved in this six-year ordeal. I do pray that they find a way to properly administer the sacraments to this woman. I have to wonder though, at why this woman can be taken on daily car trips with the assistance of a wheel chair and not one of them for six years has been to go to mass.

While I find the response from the EMHC in this case to be appalling, there has to be some give and take on both sides. Crumpy has effectively isolated his mother and perhaps himself by telling the priest not to send anyone, while at the same time not wanting any strangers coming around from another parish – you can’t have it both ways. I can only speculate on the reason for which they have acted. Perhaps they feel that if this woman is not home when they show up to administer Communion, they do not consider her to be “home bound” such as those who are hospitalized or imprisoned.

Realize that there is a strain on church resources. As president of the men’s group at my chapel, I know how difficult it is to get volunteers and this is true with all service organizations. I’m not accusing Crumpy of doing so, but some people take advantage of these resources. I’ve received calls asking me to send one of the men of the parish to plant bulbs in someone’s yard. I received a call on a Tuesday afternoon asking me to assemble and dispatch some men to help load a storage POD for a family that was relocating the following Saturday. At the same time, I have a laundry list of maintenance items that need to be done at the church and rectory that nobody wants to volunteer for.

The Church is engaged perpetually in spiritual warfare and with the shortage of priests over the last 50 years it has been a mass casualty incident (pardon the pun). To refer back to my EMT training, you have to perform triage during these MCI’s and address those with the most pressing needs first. These are very difficult but necessary decisions. Those in most dire need are tended to first, while the “walking wounded” has to suck it up and patiently wait their turn. It is an ongoing process though, i.e. if someone’s condition worsens, they are “moved up on the list.”

Crumpy, you have made the honorable decision to become your mother’s caretaker. This entails a great deal of sacrifice and suffering on your part. Bear it patiently and offer it up to God and you will merit eternal rewards. Bear it with bitter resentment and self-righteous indignation and you will not only lose any reward but perhaps merit eternal punishment.

Without the burden of afflictions it is impossible to reach the height of grace. The gift of grace increases as the struggle increases. --St. Rose of Lima

Dominus vobiscum.

Michael

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Ruth Catherine, as others have stated, an EMHC has no knowledge of the person’s soul and so should not refuse communion. In fact, is it the person himself who has the responsibility to refrain from presenting himself for communion if he is not properly disposed. The priest and the bishop should address the issue of politicians or other public figures who support immoral behavior outside of Mass.

Grumpy, I am praying for you and your mother. It is very disappointing that your priest has not checked on your mother or made other arrangements for her to receive communion. Is it at all possible for you to take her to Mass? If not, ask again to have the priest come visit her. Both for communion and for her to go to confession. Don’t bring up the past years. Simply ask for a pastoral visit. You can then discuss the best way of making sure she can receive the sacraments regularly.