Extraordinary Ministers

[jmcrae]

My guess is your parish would need two people, a Priest and a Deacon to commune the faithful in less than 30 minutes.

Of course since speed is the issue in these things, you know Holy Communion has to be over quickly so we can make it over to IHOP before the crowds get there, or to the stadium before kick off, …

Or before the next Mass is scheduled to begin …

you may need to use more extraordinary ministers to get communion time down to 10 minutes or so which is probably what most churches aim for, and what is probably the real reason for the swarms for Extraordinary Ministers that normally appear.

Could be.

 

[palmas85]

Or before the next Mass is scheduled to begin …

Could be.

Then schedule the masses further apart. thats not reallt that hard is it??

IAnd yes, I know it could be. It is mainly for expediency, speed and getting the people out quickly.

 

[LilyM]

Well, at least in large parishes it’s about making sure that there actually are enough Masses so that everyone can fulfil their Sunday obligation each week.

Of course this doesn’t apply in all situations, and yes EMsHC are often terribly overused, but eliminating them entirely for that reason is as ridiculous as abolishing the Mass entirely because of the abuses that accompany it.

 

[jc-servant]

I/Of course since speed is the issue in these things, you know Holy Communion has to be over quickly so we can make it over to IHOP before the crowds get there, or to the stadium before kick off, you may need to use more extraordinary ministers to get communion time down to 10 minutes or so which is probably what most churches aim for, and what is probably the real reason for the swarms for Extraordinary Ministers that normally appear.

I think you miss the point if you are serious about the speed issue for such trivial reasons. People worried about those types of things just ditch during communion anyway. As I stated earlier, we are crossing in the parking lot between masses now even using the EMHCs to help with communion. With 8, 10, 12 & 4:30p English and 2p, 7p Spanish I really don’t see how the schedule could be adjusted. Our communion is no where near 10 minutes either. I’m standing on my feet in the choir during everything except the homily because of the design of our church, so 10 minutes for communion would be a blessing at that point if it could be done properly.

Your mathematics aside, I’m still waiting on a real solution for large parishes where people actually show up for mass.

 

[jmcrae]

Then schedule the masses further apart. thats not reallt that hard is it??

Well, if you don’t mind “midnight Mass” every Sunday of the year, I suppose that could be doable - although I’m not certain that Masses that take place on Monday morning are considered valid for the Sunday Mass obligation, are they?

 

[palmas85]

Well, if you don’t mind “midnight Mass” every Sunday of the year, I suppose that could be doable - although I’m not certain that Masses that take place on Monday morning are considered valid for the Sunday Mass obligation, are they?

You’re just being silly now, start earlier.

 

[jmcrae]

You’re just being silly now, start earlier.

At our little parish, we start at 8:00 in the morning. At the Cathedral, they start at 7:00 am. Do you really think people will get up earlier than that, on a Sunday morning?

 

[palmas85]

I think you miss the point if you are serious about the speed issue for such trivial reasons. People worried about those types of things just ditch during communion anyway. As I stated earlier, we are crossing in the parking lot between masses now even using the EMHCs to help with communion. With 8, 10, 12 & 4:30p English and 2p, 7p Spanish I really don’t see how the schedule could be adjusted. Our communion is no where near 10 minutes either. I’m standing on my feet in the choir during everything except the homily because of the design of our church, so 10 minutes for communion would be a blessing at that point if it could be done properly.

Your mathematics aside, I’m still waiting on a real solution for large parishes where people actually show up for mass.

In your earlier post you claimed over 21,000 registered members of your parish, plus a huge number if memory serves correctly of unregistered who attend the Spanish Language Masses, possibly due to illegal status. Impressive figures to be sure.

Your Parish, which I tracked down by the tantalizing bits of information you posted reports an average Sunday Mass attendance of 7821 This includes the saturday Vigil figure as well. That works out to about somewhere around 1/3 of the Parish enrollment. If yourr claim that many of the Spanish Speakers are not registered with the Parish to begin with. it would further cut down on the registered Mass attendance as the non registered are still counted in the avearge weekly Mass figures. So the percentage of registered members that actually attend Mass is more than likely lower than 30%

Don’t feel bad though, that is actually a pretty good figure . Many parishes report only 1-10% attendance of registered members, even in Dallas, imagine that. sad very very sad.

You neglected to mention the Saturday Vigil Mass which is very well attended according to my source over there, and often, in fact usually has more than the Sunday Masses do. The Life Teen Mass(4:30pm) however, is usually smaller in attendance than the others.

I’ve already crunched the numbers for your parish, and in certain circumstances, ie: missing one or more of your Deacons or Priests, you may need one of two Extraordinary Ministers to maintain a communion time of around 20 minutes or so, which I think is pretty good.

Adjusting the schedule would be easy enough, start the first Mass at six am. Move the vigil to 5:30 or 6pm and possibly add a second vigil. That is allowed, but requires approval of the Local Ordinary. Move the life teen to 4:00pm Saturday, that is usually the earlist you can start a Vigil mass. The kids would love that., Better still, scrap Life Teen all together and replace it with a regular mass. Just a personal prejudice I guess, I’ve never seen much need for Life Teen Masses, anyway. Sorry Replace it’s Sunday time slot with another regular Mass or even communion service That would give you two or three additional masses/communion service and cut down on attendance at each of the other Masses. See simple .

But, just in case these solutions are unworkable in your parish, Extraordinary Ministers would be needed to get times down below 20 minutes.and close to that magic ten minute mark,

You do have a pretty Church and the Chapel is very impressiev I was also impressed that you have statues of Saints there. I’ve always liked St Teresa de Avila and St Martin de Porres. Many newer churches, built in the same time frame as yours, regretably don’t have them

Best wishes and rest assured of our prayers from out here in Sunny Southern california

 

[palmas85]

At our little parish, we start at 8:00 in the morning. At the Cathedral, they start at 7:00 am. Do you really think people will get up earlier than that, on a Sunday morning?

I did for years and years when I was serving, and many Churches still do.

 

[amontoya]

At mass last Sunday, we had one priest, one deacon and twelve Extraordinary Ministers. Does that seem a little extraordinary to anyone? I’m in RCIA and not sure of what’s the norm, but that just seemed excessive. There were less than two hundred churchgoers. Is there any rule about how many should be present? I’m still trying to adjust to attending mass, so I’d like to understand and be comfortable with all aspects.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve already crunched the numbers for your parish, and in certain circumstances, ie: missing one or more of your Deacons or Priests, you may need one of two Extraordinary Ministers to maintain a communion time of around 20 minutes or so, which I think is pretty good.

Did you factor in meal times plus one hour of fasting for each of the members of clergy? (20-30 minutes to prepare and eat a simple meal plus at 60 minutes of fasting before the next Mass they preside at or attend - call it 90 minutes - three times during the course of the day for each of the members of clergy - or are we making them fast for the entire Sunday?)

 

[jmcrae]

At mass last Sunday, we had one priest, one deacon and twelve Extraordinary Ministers. Does that seem a little extraordinary to anyone? I’m in RCIA and not sure of what’s the norm, but that just seemed excessive. There were less than two hundred churchgoers. Is there any rule about how many should be present? I’m still trying to adjust to attending mass, so I’d like to understand and be comfortable with all aspects.

That’s astounding - yes, it seems like a lot. I’ve never seen more than two EMsHC at a time.

 

[TimOliv]

That’s astounding - yes, it seems like a lot. I’ve never seen more than two EMsHC at a time.

This could very well be the source of all of our disagreements.

Typically in this Diocese, there are at LEAST 4 (with 6 altar servers). There have been times when there have been more people on the altar than in the pews.

 

[palmas85]

That’s astounding - yes, it seems like a lot. I’ve never seen more than two EMsHC at a time.

I’ve seen as many as 13. At my parish, I’ve never seen less than three, even if there were only twenty or thiry people present in the congregation.

 

[jmcrae]

This could very well be the source of all of our disagreements.

Typically in this Diocese, there are at LEAST 4 (with 6 altar servers). There have been times when there have been more people on the altar than in the pews.

Yes, that’s definitely way more EMHCs than you need. (I can’t comment on Altar servers because I don’t really know much about what they do. We’ve had as many as eight, at Christmas time, and they all seemed to find something useful to do for the priest, and I’m under the impression that that’s the point of it, is to train them to be of service to him in whatever capacity comes to hand, so that when they become adults, Christian service will be second-nature to them.)

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve seen as many as 13. At my parish, I’ve never seen less than three, even if there were only twenty or thiry people present in the congregation.

That definitely seems like over-kill, to me. You shouldn’t need more than one server per hundred people. Less than 100, you really only need the priest, unless the cup is also being offered, in which case one EMHC would be plenty.

 

[palmas85]

Did you factor in meal times plus one hour of fasting for each of the members of clergy? (20-30 minutes to prepare and eat a simple meal plus at 60 minutes of fasting before the next Mass they preside at or attend - call it 90 minutes - three times during the course of the day for each of the members of clergy - or are we making them fast for the entire Sunday?)

Everything necessary has been taken into account. Of course, each parish would be different depending on the factors unique to that parish, all of which would factor into the estomates.

In case you are unaware, at most Churches that have multiple Masses on Sundays, there is more than one Priest celebrating, either from the same Church or brought in from a different one. If i am not mistaken a Priest cannot celebrate more than four masses on a Sunday, and that is with permission from the Bishop and normally may celebrate only three, also with permission. The norm is two I believe… .

So all of these Churches which are having more than three or four masses on a Sunday, have to be using more than one priest. Since they are already doing it, expanding it would not be an insurmountable problem. then of course, there are the deacons, who in necessity could always have a communion service. Not as nice, true, but acceptable if done through necesity.

There are always ways to avoid rxcess Extraordinary Ministers if you are willing to look for them.

 

[palmas85]

That definitely seems like over-kill, to me. You shouldn’t need more than one server per hundred people. Less than 100, you really only need the priest, unless the cup is also being offered, in which case one EMHC would be plenty.

The Church also has three deacons. However, they often do not serve at all.

 

[TimOliv]

The Church also has three deacons. However, they often do not serve at all.

Tim votes for bringing back Subdeacons. Now I just have to sit back and wait for the church to become a total democracy…sits back and starts reading War and Peace

 

[jmcrae]

The Church also has three deacons. However, they often do not serve at all.

If a Deacon is present, then he should be the minister of the cup. In this particular situation (our example above, with 20-30 people in attendance), there would be no need for EMHCs whatsoever.

(But there are some circumstances where one or two really are needed at Mass, especially at Easter and Christmas, when so many people come home from University, etc., and certainly they do a wonderful thing by ministering to the sick and home-bound. I would never abolish them, but yes, if people are seeing more than two at a regular Mass, then it’s time to ask the Pastor to review the parish’s practices.)