Extraordinary vs Ordinary

[johnmann]

Benedict XVI gave two reasons for why he called it the “extraordinary form.”

the new Missal will remain the ordinary form of the Roman Rite, not only on account of the juridical norms, but also because of the actual situation of the communities of the faithful.

In context, Benedict seems to be saying that the EF is just the older version of the OF. The EF is permitted to fulfill a demand but is the exception.

As for “extraordinary minister,” it’s similar. All acolytes are extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion and almost every reader at every Mass is an extraordinary minister (the ordinary minister is the instituted lector). So clearly they aren’t intended to be rare. But, big caveat. There are additional instructions on the use of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion.

the extraordinary minister of Holy Communion may administer Communion… when the number of faithful coming to Communion is so great that the very celebration of Mass would be unduly prolonged. This, however, is to be understood in such a way that a brief prolongation, considering the circumstances and culture of the place, is not at all a sufficient reason.

So basically, “extraordinary” does not mean rare but it does mean you should have a good reason for using it.

 

[felsguy]

No, I am saying you need to keep UNFOUNDED opinions to yourself.

You are a self-identified, teen-age boy who is not even Catholic yet!!
How could you possibly have the personal experience to make a sweeping statement that priests who use EMHC do so only to have more laity involvement?

Having an informed opinion is fine, but when your information is from questionable sources and based on personal experiences of others it becomes gossip.

“Youth sees too far today to see how near it is to seeing farther” - source unknown, possibly Japanese

.

 

[malphono]

EMHC’s actually are meant to be used on a case-by-case basis, not at every Mass. Priests overuse EMHCs so the laity can “participate” more in the Mass. However, they’re really only meant for huge Masses, where there aren’t enough priests or deacons to distribute the Eucharist. They are called “Extraordinary” because the “Ordinary” minister of Communion is a member of the clergy.

Being very many years your senior, personally I would have qualified the second sentence to say something like “some priests seem to overuse …” but overall, despite (a) the teenage boy thing and (b) what some detractors may have to say about the matter, what you had to say isn’t a bad observation at all.

 

[april32010]

You really need to learn how to keep these unfounded opinions to yourself. You have no right to disparage priests for using EMHC how THEY see fit. And unless/until you know the directives from the Bishop of your diocese regarding the use of said ministers, it will serve you well to not share such opinions.

and what is unfounded in his post ?

 

[ServusHumilis]

No, I am saying you need to keep UNFOUNDED opinions to yourself.

You are a self-identified, teen-age boy who is not even Catholic yet!!
How could you possibly have the personal experience to make a sweeping statement that priests who use EMHC do so only to have more laity involvement?

Having an informed opinion is fine, but when your information is from questionable sources and based on personal experiences of others it becomes gossip.

I think the moderators might say you guys were going off topic. At any rate I can make Ben’s statement then, since I grew up in a parish that has used scheduled EMHCs every Sunday ever since I can remember. EMHCs, according to canon law, are indeed to be used on a case-by-case basis. Some bishop years ago must have decided to use their own interpritation of that law and it’s just stuck. Let me guess; you’re an extraordinary minister? How do you honestly feel about all the unconsecrated hands, some surely in mortal sin, out there handling and giving out the body of Christ? As a deeply religious and spiritual person I’ll have you know it really bothers me. Anytime I happen to be back at mass at my old parsh I’ve decided to only receive, on the tounge, from the priest. If they wish to use the number of people at any given mass as an excuse for EMHCs, I can also tell from experience that the removal of altar rails is what slowed things down in the first place. The pictues in this blog post sum it all up for me.

 

[maryjk]

Poor bben15 must be confused right now, because one member just told him to not share his opinion while another just said it’s fine to share your opinion but not ok to share your statements. Maybe others who disagree with Ben’s posts can just say so, instead of telling him he can’t post this or that and maybe we can leave the decision to what Ben can and cannot post up to the forum moderator?

“Poor bben15” should stop taking pot shots at our priests.

Our priests schedule EMHC. Why? Because he knows that approximately 700 people will be at Mass Sunday morning. He can’t schedule additional priests, there aren’t any.

So, it has nothing to do with “having the laity participate more in the Mass.” It has to do with the fact that our priest isn’t a moron and can look at past Masses and know that future Masses will also be packed.

Of course, it is much easier to just make a statement like bben15 did, without back up. It isn’t right or charitable, but it is easier.

 

[ProVobis]

Our priests schedule EMHC. Why? Because he knows that approximately 700 people will be at Mass Sunday morning. He can’t schedule additional priests, there aren’t any.

If that’s the case, then it is hoped that more will pursue the diaconate. At my local parish, the Spanish Mass priest had to borrow an English-speaking deacon to proclaim the gospel and to help distribute communion. Deacons are used more and more at the EFs as well, including adding to their solemnity.

 

[otjm]

One aspect of this is the amazing attitude of some that Communion apparently should be distributed as rapidly as possible.

 

[phil19034]

This thread is kind of duplicative of a previous, closed thread here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=847652

 

[phil19034]

“Poor bben15” should stop taking pot shots at our priests.

Our priests schedule EMHC. Why? Because he knows that approximately 700 people will be at Mass Sunday morning. He can’t schedule additional priests, there aren’t any.

So, it has nothing to do with “having the laity participate more in the Mass.” It has to do with the fact that our priest isn’t a moron and can look at past Masses and know that future Masses will also be packed.

Of course, it is much easier to just make a statement like bben15 did, without back up. It isn’t right or charitable, but it is easier.

I’m going to stick up for Ben a little bit here. Let’s look at what he meant, vs. how he expressed it.

1. he never stated that a Mass of 700 people shouldn’t have one. He simply stated sometimes it is over used (or from his point of view appears to be over used here in the United States).
2. the “Extraordinary Ministers” are called “Extraordinary” because they are “not ordinary,” they are used as needed but should be considered “temporary” because in an ideal world, a number of Deacons or Seminarians would be doing that role. Or as in other countries, the Altar (Communion) Rails are still used like in the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. Here is a previous thread. A Brother provides some pretty good info regarding this and the usage of the word “Extraordinary” from the Latin root and Church usage: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=847652

With all due respect to Extraordinary Ministers (I respect anyone who volunteers for anything in a Parish), I have been to Mass with approx 100 people with approx 8-10 Extraordinary Ministers (not kidding - one or two down each aisle and 1 or two Ministers of the Wine) and that Mass is often about the same size each week. In this case, I know that the Parish Priest does not want to turn away volunteers. Is there anything “wrong” with this, not really. But this is a case where the Pastor is allowing it simply to allow the volunteers to “participate.”

BTW - also think a lot of people could have been a little more charitable to Ben too. There were some un-Catholic like comments in this tread. A comment viewed as uncharitable does not automatically deserve an uncharitable response.

Now, for a little light heartedness: personally, I prefer to receive Communion from only the Priest. That’s not to say I will not receive from an Extraordinary Minister, but I prefer the Priest. So of course my parish priests always switch which aisle they administer to each Sunday! I never know where to sit so I can get the priest

God Bless

 

[Megan7]

If that’s the case, then it is hoped that more will pursue the diaconate. At my local parish, the Spanish Mass priest had to borrow an English-speaking deacon to proclaim the gospel and to help distribute communion. Deacons are used more and more at the EFs as well, including adding to their solemnity.

Thanks.

 

[paperwight66]

How do you honestly feel about all the unconsecrated hands, some surely in mortal sin, out there handling and giving out the body of Christ? l.

That really needs to be challenged (again).

In the first place, a Permanent deacon’s hands aren’t consecrated, either. The consecration of hands is for the confecting of the Eucharist, nothing to do with distribution.

And you know that some of the EMHC are in mortal sin how, exactly?

 

[phil19034]

That really needs to be challenged (again).

In the first place, a Permanent deacon’s hands aren’t consecrated, either. The consecration of hands is for the confecting of the Eucharist, nothing to do with distribution.

And you know that some of the EMHC are in mortal sin how, exactly?

I believe the “mortal sin” fear is based on the idea that “how do we know if a Extraordinary Minister attends Confession regularly and doesn’t have Mortal Sin?” Obviously, we really don’t know that for sure with a Priest, but one would hope that (a) 99% Priests know what are Mortal Sins and (2) if they have any, would confess to their peers right away since they must perform Mass everyday. This fear is based on the assumption that its more likely that a lay person might be a EMHC without Confessing a Mortal Sin (even if they don’t know) than a priest. Granted this is just an assumption, without data, but a logical one.

God Bless.

 

[ServusHumilis]

That really needs to be challenged (again).

In the first place, a Permanent deacon’s hands aren’t consecrated, either. The consecration of hands is for the confecting of the Eucharist, nothing to do with distribution.

And you know that some of the EMHC are in mortal sin how, exactly?

I only really intended to rebuke some of the uncharitable replies against Ben with some of my own observations and thoughts. Simply put, the Blessed Sacrament is the most sacred thing on this earth and I’ll personally continue to receive it the same way I would at a mass said by Pope Benedict XVI or Pope Francis.

 

[Phemie]

“Poor bben15” should stop taking pot shots at our priests.

Our priests schedule EMHC. Why? Because he knows that approximately 700 people will be at Mass Sunday morning. He can’t schedule additional priests, there aren’t any.

So, it has nothing to do with “having the laity participate more in the Mass.” It has to do with the fact that our priest isn’t a moron and can look at past Masses and know that future Masses will also be packed.

Of course, it is much easier to just make a statement like bben15 did, without back up. It isn’t right or charitable, but it is easier.

I’ve lived in many parishes and I’ve been an EMHC in several. I quit being one when I realized that we were, indeed, being overused when there was no justification for it.

It was not rare in my present parish to have priests sit and watch while EMHCs distributed Communion. When I brought up the documents that categorically forbid this I was told that “we have never listened to Rome on this and we’re not about to start now” and “people have a right to be there doing that.”

That problem went away when we found ourselves without a Pastor for a year. Now we only have one priest and he has one person offering the Precious Blood at the Saturday evening Mass and two doing so at the Sunday morning Mass. Offering Communion under both species was mandated by our Bishop.

 

[HandHolder]

“Poor bben15” should stop taking pot shots at our priests.

Our priests schedule EMHC. Why? Because he knows that approximately 700 people will be at Mass Sunday morning. He can’t schedule additional priests, there aren’t any.

So, it has nothing to do with “having the laity participate more in the Mass.” It has to do with the fact that our priest isn’t a moron and can look at past Masses and know that future Masses will also be packed.

Of course, it is much easier to just make a statement like bben15 did, without back up. It isn’t right or charitable, but it is easier.

It must have taken a looong time for the congregation to recieve back in the old days?

 

[ProVobis]

It must have taken a looong time for the congregation to recieve back in the old days?

When you consider that there was a 3-hr fast prior to Mass start time, there were more priests at each parish, only a quarter or a third receiving, communion being in one form only, there being a communion rail, etc., it wasn’t that long.

 

[Phemie]

When you consider that there was a 3-hr fast prior to Mass start time, there were more priests at each parish, only a quarter or a third receiving, communion being in one form only, there being a communion rail, etc., it wasn’t that long.

Even with only 1 priest it didn’t take very long. The difference is that we didn’t think to complain about the length of the Mass back then.

 

[HandHolder]

When you consider that there was a 3-hr fast prior to Mass start time, there were more priests at each parish, only a quarter or a third receiving, communion being in one form only, there being a communion rail, etc., it wasn’t that long.

Well, that’s great then! Nowadays more people must be mortal-sin-free and extra communionized with the addition of precious blood! And not bored because they are all actively participating, being EMHC’s and all…

I keed, I keed…

 

[ServusHumilis]

It must have taken a looong time for the congregation to recieve back in the old days?

At the FSSP parish near me there are two priests. During the mass one of them generally hears confession and just before Holy Communion goes to the altar and both priests distribute. The Sunday sung mass is always packed and communion doesn’t take very long. This has also been happening at my diocesan parish’s EF mass, although being a small parish in the middle of nowhere there’s always less congregants.