Extraordinary ?

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What if I changed my viewpoint: instead of thinking that the Latin Mass is extraordinary, and only for a few extraordinary people, why not believe that that it’s a normal lifestyle for those who believe? I believe that the Church, the Scriptures, our Tradition, the Saints that have gone before us, all shout the challenge to each and every Catholic, in this “Ordinary Time”.

Richard
 
What if I changed my viewpoint: instead of thinking that the Latin Mass is extraordinary, and only for a few extraordinary people, why not believe that that it’s a normal lifestyle for those who believe? I believe that the Church, the Scriptures, our Tradition, the Saints that have gone before us, all shout the challenge to each and every Catholic, in this “Ordinary Time”.

Richard
It’s just what Pope Benedict used in his motu proprio. I think it just signifies that it’s out of the ordinary, nowadays, when compared to what’s going on now.

But, yes, for the history of the Church, the NO is most definitely the extraordinary.
 
The Mass evolves. The Tridentine Mass was only one form of the Mass. Know your history.
 
However the Tridentine mass was never outlawed or restricted.
 
Why not make the extraordinary into the ordinary?

After all, EMHC’s were supposed to be “extraordinary” and now are commonplace. Use the same reasoning for the extraordinary rite 🙂
 
Why not make the extraordinary into the ordinary?

After all, EMHC’s were supposed to be “extraordinary” and now are commonplace. Use the same reasoning for the extraordinary rite 🙂
Because most Catholics attend and seem to prefer to attend the OF, making it the most regular or “ordinary” form in practice and in name.
 
Although my post doesn’t really relate to this OP’s post, I would like to clarify something with this forum.

On another sub forum I wrote that I attended a NO parish which was very traditional and also had a TLM Mass.

The response from a poster who is Catholic said: What’s a NO parish. Are you Catholic? Are there “YES parishes”. What’s the difference?

He goes on to say “Since he/she never heard of a NO parish it’s certainly something the Church has not defined. Sounds like a bit of an attack to me”.

I felt it was sarcastic and responded back, then I received another post from someone else who said I was uncharitable (my word). I recall their response what more harsh.

Am I misunderstanding the term NO used for parishes that use form of the Mass, which is what I usually find at most parishes and that don’t celebrate the TLM? I would of thought that all Catholics have heard this term. From what I gather the NO is referred to as the Ordinary Forum, is this correct? I am just trying to learn everything I can as I am a convert.

I just felt I needed some advice from people who are far more knowledgable in the Faith than I appear to be. I guess I am not thick skinned enough when I feel I am being attacked for an innocent remark.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Because most Catholics attend and seem to prefer to attend the OF, making it the most regular or “ordinary” form in practice and in name.
Then that needs to change then 🙂

I’d love to see advertising on TV and radio that promotes the extraordinary form, by lay groups who support the EF.
 
Then that needs to change then 🙂

I’d love to see advertising on TV and radio that promotes the extraordinary form, by lay groups who support the EF.
I can promise you, you’d get equally orthodox Catholics funding the same in support of the ordinary form, esp. since it is in the vernacular. Now, if we could hear the sublime prose of the EF in the vernacular, that MIGHT be a different story. But then, there is an austere beauty to the OF properly offered that would still be different from, but just as lovely as the EF.
 
Although my post doesn’t really relate to this OP’s post, I would like to clarify something with this forum.

On another sub forum I wrote that I attended a NO parish which was very traditional and also had a TLM Mass.

The response from a poster who is Catholic said: What’s a NO parish. Are you Catholic? Are there “YES parishes”. What’s the difference?

He goes on to say “Since he/she never heard of a NO parish it’s certainly something the Church has not defined. Sounds like a bit of an attack to me”.

I felt it was sarcastic and responded back, then I received another post from someone else who said I was uncharitable (my word). I recall their response what more harsh.

Am I misunderstanding the term NO used for parishes that use form of the Mass, which is what I usually find at most parishes and that don’t celebrate the TLM? I would of thought that all Catholics have heard this term. From what I gather the NO is referred to as the Ordinary Forum, is this correct? I am just trying to learn everything I can as I am a convert.

I just felt I needed some advice from people who are far more knowledgable in the Faith than I appear to be. I guess I am not thick skinned enough when I feel I am being attacked for an innocent remark.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
You can call it the Novus Ordo (it was called the “New Missal”, officially) or the Ordinary Form. A rose by any other name…
 
Know yours. The Mass sees organic growth, not discarded to make room for concoction.
You don’t seem to share Pope Benedict’s vision for both forms of the Mass. Read his letter to the bishops that accompanied the MP. Good stuff, about both forms.
 
You don’t seem to share Pope Benedict’s vision for both forms of the Mass. Read his letter to the bishops that accompanied the MP. Good stuff, about both forms.
You don’t have a clue how much I love H.H. BXVI, and embrace his words. If not for him, I’d never step inside a church that offers only the OF.

The SP has nothing at all to do with my reply. But if you like, I can dig up H.H. own words on the NO that would support my own.

You’ve seen them before here. Would you like to see them again ? How about Bugnini’s right hand man ? Would you like to see his words he said in lamenting the liturgical reform ?

Here, I won’t make you wait…
Alluding to the composition of the New Mass, Father Duggan states: "It is enough to compare the text of this Missal (the Missal of 1570) with the Novus Ordo of 1969 to see that there has been a revolutionary change (November AD2000).
Fr Duggan’s contention that the liturgical change is revolutionary is corroborated by Father Joseph Gelineau SJ whose credentials for commenting on the New Mass could scarcely be more authoritative. Fr Gelineau was one of the most influential of Archbishop Bugnini’s Consilium which was charged with composing the New Mass after Vatican II. He was described by the Archbishop as one of “the great masters of the international liturgical world” (The Reform of the Liturgy, page 221). Archbishop Bugnini, it will be recalled, was the principal architect of the Novus Ordo.
In his book Demain la Liturgie (The Liturgy Tomorrow), Fr Gelineau observes:** “Let those, who, like myself have known and sung a Latin Gregorian High Mass remember it if they can. Let them compare it with the Mass that we now have. Not only the words, the melodies, and some of the gestures are different. To tell the truth it is a different liturgy of the Mass. This needs to be said without ambiguity: the Roman Rite as we knew it no longer exists (Le Rite Romain tel que nous l’avons connu n’existe plus). It has been destroyed (il est détruit)” (pages 9-10).**
Monsignor Klaus Gamber agrees with Fr Gelineau that the Roman Rite has been destroyed. Monsignor writes: “[A]t this critical juncture the traditional Roman Rite, more than one thousand years old, has been destroyed” (The Reform of the Roman Liturgy, page 99).
Father Kenneth Baker SJ, who is editor of the Homiletic & Pastoral Review, concurs with Fr Duggan that the liturgical changes have been revolutionary. Lamenting the numerous changes imposed on the people which they scarcely had time to digest, Fr Baker wrote: “We have been overwhelmed with changes in the Church at all levels but it is the liturgical revolution which touches all of us intimately and immediately” (February 1979).
Cardinal Ratzinger claims that our ecclesial malaise is attributable, at least in part, to the condition of the Liturgy. He writes: “I am convinced that the crisis in the Church that we are experiencing is to a large extent due to the disintegration of the Liturgy” (Milestones, page 148).ad2000.com.au/articles/2005/feb2005p15_1853.html
Cardinal Ratzinger on the Novus Ordo: “After the Council… in place of the liturgy as the fruit of organic development came fabricated liturgy. We abandoned the organic, living process of growth and development over centuries, and replaced it, as in a manufacturing process, with a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product”.
Trads don’t make this stuff up. Ever wonder who the wolves are ? The ones H.H. mentioned in his first Homily as Pope ?
 
The SP has nothing at all to do with my reply. But if you like, I can dig up H.H. own words on the NO that would support my own.

You’ve seen them before here. Would you like to see them again ? How about Bugnini’s right hand man ? Would you like to see his words he said in lamenting the liturgical reform ?

Here, I won’t make you wait…

Trads don’t make this stuff up.
Now read what he’s said as Pope, as Vicar of Christ and shepherd of the whole of Christ’s flock. Read the letter that accompanied the MP *SP. *I very much doubt that the OF will be going away, I doubt even more that the vernacular will be going away, and I think YOUR greatest fear is that I’m right…not the libs, not the progressives, but the ordinary, Orthodox Catholic on the middle path between two extremes.

Why can’t you simply be glad of the liberation of the EF? Why do you keep going on and on about these things?

I can tell you: the wolves aren’t the council and the wolves aren’t the Mass. And a wolf can be dressed traditionally as easily as he could be dressed “contemporary” or “modern” or “liberal…” you can pick your word.
 
It seems like we are almost there! We read in I Peter 4:17:

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”

That was the King James Version, now here is the Catholic New American Bible Version:

“The season of judgment has begun, and begun with God’s own household. If it begins this way with us, what must be the end for those who refuse obedience to the gospel of God?”

I assume that in this verse God is speaking about a preparatory time for God’s judgment to come, and it’s to begin in the Catholic Church. Probably will be the end of the Church Age for both Ordinary/Extraordinary, but the verse makes me wonder which one refused obedience to the Gospel? It could be either one? It’s just something that caught my attention, because of the split over the two forms of Mass.

Richard
 
It seems like we are almost there! We read in I Peter 4:17:

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”

That was the King James Version, now here is the Catholic New American Bible Version:

“The season of judgment has begun, and begun with God’s own household. If it begins this way with us, what must be the end for those who refuse obedience to the gospel of God?”

I assume that in this verse God is speaking about a preparatory time for God’s judgment to come, and it’s to begin in the Catholic Church. Probably will be the end of the Church Age for both Ordinary/Extraordinary, but the verse makes me wonder which one refused obedience to the Gospel? It could be either one? It’s just something that caught my attention, because of the split over the two forms of Mass.

Richard
Neither refused obedience to the Gospel, if you’re talking about the forms. It is impossible for the Church to promulgate anything that would lead the faithful into impiety. Anything the Church promulgates for the faithful IS obedience to the Gospel.
 
Neither refused obedience to the Gospel, if you’re talking about the forms. It is impossible for the Church to promulgate anything that would lead the faithful into impiety. Anything the Church promulgates for the faithful IS obedience to the Gospel.
Well, the way I read 1 Timothy 3:15 the Catholic Church is called, “The House of God”. Also in Hebrews 10:21 we have a great priest over the House of God.

Richard
 
Now read what he’s said as Pope, as Vicar of Christ and shepherd of the whole of Christ’s flock.
An excellent point. Many here keep repeating the same things the Holy Father said as personal opinions as Cardinal Ratzinger. As Pope Benedict XVI, the Vicar of Christ and shepherd of the whole of Christ’s flock, his role is to serve the Church, not promote those things that he prefers. While his personal preferences for certain practices are being noted, it is important to keep in mind that he is not instituting these same preferences on the whole Church. Pope Paul VI produced his missal at the request of the Vatican II council, just as Pope Pius V produced his at the request of the Council of Trent. It is foolhardy to think that a pope would step into Peter’s shoes and start changing the practices and liturgy of the Church in the same way that an upstart CEO marches into his office and starts ordering massive changes around him. The pope’s job is to preserve the deposit of faith.
 
It is impossible for the Church to promulgate anything that would lead the faithful into impiety.
Are you sure about this?

Impiety - n, pl, -ties : (1) lack of reverence for God; (2) lack of respect.
 
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