Extraterrestrial intelligence and spiritual implications

[Della]

Originally Posted by Della:
Of course, God can do anything he likes, but once again is it probable?

vz71:
Sure it is. Why wouldn’t he?
My apologies, that sounds flippant.
What I mean is that given all of the random events that needed to happen just to create me, I have a hard time considering a decision of God’s to be dictated by probability.

What I mean is, is it probable that God would create other sentient beings, which is, I believe, an entirely different thing from saying that God works by probabilities, which I wasn’t trying to convey.

Originally Posted by Della:
We know that Christ was “crucified from the foundation of the earth,” so it was always a part of God’s plan for the human race to be redeemed. That being the case, is it probable that God would want to do that again, over and over, elsewhere?

vz71:
To redeem one of his children, I cannot see a limit to what God would do.

He has already done that, though. He isn’t going to put Christ through that over and over again, when it has already been done, once for all.

Originally Posted by Della:
For any sentient creatures with eternal souls would have to stand the test, as human beings did, but fell. I can’t think other races of sentient beings would do any better.

vz71:
Given two choices to be made, I could readily imagine half making the right choice. Just basic laws of probability.

But, if it were left up to their “Adam and Eve” there wouldn’t be any half of the population making the right or the wrong chioce. C. S. Lewis dealt with this topic rather well in the 2nd book of his space trilogy, Perelandra. If you want to pursue the topic more, I highly recommend it to you.

Originally Posted by Della:
But apart from all this, Christ became a human being, and that step was irrevocable. He isn’t going to become some other sentient creature now.

vz71:
Would he have to?

Considering he did in order to redeem humankind, why would he not do it for some other sentient race? The answer is because he was incarnated as a human being and is and always will be the God-man.

Originally Posted by Della:
If any come after us, they would have to be us in order for them to be a part of the life of the Trinity, and why would God recreate us on other planets when we are already here?

vz71:
Why would they have to be ‘us?’

Of course looking at this as a pessimist, wouldn’t it be interesting if we are one of many thousands, and that we are the only ones that chose wrong.

They would have to be us, because Jesus is one of us, and he is the Second Person of the Trinity and cannot make himself into anyone else. He has become the God-man for eternity.

Even if were are only one of thousands, Jesus was incarnated as a human being. So, we are the only ones he chose to exalt, as well as redeem. And if we were only one of thousands, it would have made more sense for him to have simply destroyed Adam and Eve and started over again, but he didn’t do that because he was to be incarnated as the God-man. He has only one face now and will never take another.

 

[vz71]

Given that God is an infinite, I am only acknowledging the possibilities.
Probability does not enter the question at this point.

As far as the redemption, yes, there was his once for all sacrifice.
How would that prtain to another species (assuming one exists) I do not know. But God, being the infinitely merciful, can redeem anyone that wants it.

Considering he did in order to redeem humankind, why would he not do it for some other sentient race? The answer is because he was incarnated as a human being and is and always will be the God-man

Not redeem them, or not follow the same formula?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Why not postpone all this until someone has a scintilla of evidence that there are intelligent extra-terrestials?

 

[Riley259]

Della:

What I mean is, is it probable that God would create other sentient beings, which is, I believe, an entirely different thing from saying that God works by probabilities, which I wasn’t trying to convey.

He has already done that, though. He isn’t going to put Christ through that over and over again, when it has already been done, once for all.

But, if it were left up to their “Adam and Eve” there wouldn’t be any half of the population making the right or the wrong chioce. C. S. Lewis dealt with this topic rather well in the 2nd book of his space trilogy, Perelandra. If you want to pursue the topic more, I highly recommend it to you.

Considering he did in order to redeem humankind, why would he not do it for some other sentient race? The answer is because he was incarnated as a human being and is and always will be the God-man.

They would have to be us, because Jesus is one of us, and he is the Second Person of the Trinity and cannot make himself into anyone else. He has become the God-man for eternity.

Even if were are only one of thousands, Jesus was incarnated as a human being. So, we are the only ones he chose to exalt, as well as redeem. And if we were only one of thousands, it would have made more sense for him to have simply destroyed Adam and Eve and started over again, but he didn’t do that because he was to be incarnated as the God-man. He has only one face now and will never take another.

You may be right but just for the sake of argument, God can do anything he wants at any time (he’s eternal and not bound by limits after all). God could save other beings if they fell and He could become incarnate like them as well ***if ***He wanted to and willed to do so. I think it can be dangerous when we start putting restrictions on God. That being said, I believe that we are the only ones out here (see Hugh Ross’s provocative book about aliens) and because we are in His image, we are the ones that He wants to become part of His divine life.

 

[vz71]

vern humphrey:

Why not postpone all this until someone has a scintilla of evidence that there are intelligent extra-terrestials?

I vote we discuss it now. If we wait for evidence we may never get a chance. Besides, it would be a good idea to be prepared.
And we may get a deeper understanding of our faith with or without the evidence.

Does anyone else hear the X files themsong playing in the background?

 

[vern_humphrey]

vz71:

I vote we discuss it now. If we wait for evidence we may never get a chance. Besides, it would be a good idea to be prepared.
And we may get a deeper understanding of our faith with or without the evidence.

Does anyone else hear the X files themsong playing in the background?

To quote David MacCollough, "I just know there’s something more important that that to talk about."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

 

[Della]

Riley259:

You may be right but just for the sake of argument, God can do anything he wants at any time (he’s eternal and not bound by limits after all). God could save other beings if they fell and He could become incarnate like them as well ***if ***He wanted to and willed to do so. I think it can be dangerous when we start putting restrictions on God. That being said, I believe that we are the only ones out here (see Hugh Ross’s provocative book about aliens) and because we are in His image, we are the ones that He wants to become part of His divine life.

For both vz71 and you, while God can do anything, the one thing he cannot do is change his nature. He has become man. That is irrevocable. He will never become another species now–it’s a done deal–finished. This very fact, nay truth, tells me that there will be no other beings he will be redeeming or who will need to be redeemed. The Incarnation of Christ didn’t happen for no reason nor can it be pushed aside to consider other options that simply aren’t going to happen.

 

[vz71]

Della:

For both vz71 and you, while God can do anything, the one thing he cannot do is change his nature. He has become man. That is irrevocable. He will never become another species now–it’s a done deal–finished. This very fact, nay truth, tells me that there will be no other beings he will be redeeming or who will need to be redeemed. The Incarnation of Christ didn’t happen for no reason nor can it be pushed aside to consider other options that simply aren’t going to happen.

Well, in the Bible, I seem to remember God stating that he could raise descendants of Abraham from stones.

Given that, I would not doubt anything to be possible.

I believe you are making some unwarranted assumptions.
You are making the assumption that the redemptive act requires God to become anything. It may not. God simply chose this particular manner for our redemption.
Also, there is an assumption that the redemption of us would not carry over to anyone else. It might.

My apologies if I have given you the impression that I considered the Word become Flesh to be a trivial action. I do consider it one of the greatest of actions.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello Riley,

Have you read this article?
Controversial telescope is justified if just a single alien is converted - Vatican Observatory at Mount Graham, Arizona - Editorial

National Catholic Reporter, Jan 22, 1993

Vatican Observatory officials have been reaching for the stars, even invoking the possible evangelization of extraterrestrial life, as they scramble to justify what some claim is the desecration of an ecologically unique mountain. Environmentalists and the San Carlos Apache, an American Indian tribe, have opposed the international observatory - including a Vatican Observatory telescope - now under construction atop Mount Graham in southeast Arizona.

Jesuit Father George Coyne, Vatican Observatory director, recently told London’s conservative Daily Telegraph that the Vatican had joined forces with NASA to search with the new telescope for extraterrestrial life. Coyne said that if intelligent alien life is found, the church “would be obliged to address the question of whether extraterrestrials might be brought within the fold and baptized.”

A Vatican astronomer in Tucson later denied the NASA connection but not the goal of possibly baptizing extraterrestrials.

The $8 million Vatican telescope is scheduled to go on line next spring. After a nearly 10-year battle, observatory opponents see little chance of stopping it. But the larger $60 million University of Arizona installation, the observatory’s flagship, is another matter.

quoted from:
findarticles.com/p/artic…v29/ai_13417541

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello Riley,

I also wanted to say that God only has One Son. Jesus died for sin only once, never to die again. If there is life on other planets and if this life has free will and the capability to go to heaven, these Extraterrestrials can only go to heaven through our and their Saviour Jesus Christ who died for their sins on a plannet called earth.

 

[VociMike]

vz71:

All of them assume that there must be intelligent life elsewhere then on earth, and they also assume that whatever intelligence there is must be superior.

What if all the right conditions (like earth) exist aplenty, but earth is the first to develop intelligent life?

The more likely it is that intelligent life can develop on other planets, the more unlikely it is that we are the first.

 

[VociMike]

Della:

For both vz71 and you, while God can do anything, the one thing he cannot do is change his nature. He has become man. That is irrevocable. He will never become another species now–it’s a done deal–finished.

I agree with you here. God has revealed that His only Son, the Word, is fully God and fully man (and that’s all). If this revelation is true, then there’s no room for anything else. If there are other species, and some of them (even just one) needed redemption, then God would have to do it another way. And if there were another way, then why did God do it this way for us? Did we get the best redemption, or the worst, or just one of an infinite variety of redemptions? If God can redeem other species in different ways, that really diminishes Christ’s suffering and death. Actually, it makes His suffering and death unnecessary. I don’t see how it can be otherwise.

 

[Riley259]

Della:

For both vz71 and you, while God can do anything, the one thing he cannot do is change his nature. He has become man. That is irrevocable. He will never become another species now–it’s a done deal–finished. This very fact, nay truth, tells me that there will be no other beings he will be redeeming or who will need to be redeemed. The Incarnation of Christ didn’t happen for no reason nor can it be pushed aside to consider other options that simply aren’t going to happen.

As I said previously, I tend to agree with your assertion but that doesn’t mean that God couldn’t redeem others and become like them as well.