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Extreme Unction.
- Thread starter Nelka
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Anointing of the Sick forgives sin only if the person was unable to confess, i.e. in a coma.If I received extreme unction and died a few minutes later would I go straight to Heaven? Does it wash away all guilt of all sins like Baptism? If so, what if I then made a full recovery, does all my guilt return?
Thanks.
Otherwise, confession is required first.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Confession if possible. The priest can still grant Absolution even without auricular confession in limited circumstances.Anointing of the Sick forgives sin only if the person was unable to confess, i.e. in a coma.
Otherwise, confession is required first.
There are other reasons why there might be Absolution without actual confession–quite a few reasons.
Every priest should (I say should) impart Absolution before Anointing, even if that’s the emergency form.
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Vico
Guest
Absolved sins do not “come back”. In addition to sanctifying grace from confession and anointing, the apostolic blessing may be given at that time, which is a plenary indulgence removing all temporal punishment. With a plenary indulgence, purgatory is not needed.If I received extreme unction and died a few minutes later would I go straight to Heaven? Does it wash away all guilt of all sins like Baptism? If so, what if I then made a full recovery, does all my guilt return?
Thanks.
T
thistle
Guest
Does absolution in these circumstances and immediate death thereafter mean the person would go straight to Heaven or might they go to Purgatory first?Confession if possible. The priest can still grant Absolution even without auricular confession in limited circumstances.
There are other reasons why there might be Absolution without actual confession–quite a few reasons.
Every priest should (I say should) impart Absolution before Anointing, even if that’s the emergency form.
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FrDavid96
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We have to be careful about making statements like that. It’s sometimes too easy to think of sacraments (and even sacramentals) as things/events that “automatically” trigger something* else.Does absolution in these circumstances and immediate death thereafter mean the person would go straight to Heaven or might they go to Purgatory first?
Everyone passes through purgatory on the way to heaven (the only exceptions being our Lord and His Blessed Mother).
Assuming faith and sincere contrition on the part of the dying person, we can be confident that under those circumstances, that person will enter into heaven. We are likewise confident that the means Christ has given us for forgiveness of our sins (baptism, confession, acts of charity, etc.) will lessen our time in purgatory.
We must do everything possible to ensure that a dying person has access to a priest and receives the Last Rites of the Church in faith and sincerity. As for how “time” works in eternity, we leave that to the Almighty.
*by “something” I mean something beyond what the sacraments do impart directly. Baptism does “automatically” make one a member of the Body of Christ, ordination “automatically” makes a man a priest, etc. etc.
T
thistle
Guest
It has been my understanding that should a person die immediately after baptism they go straight to Heaven and do not go to Purgatory first. Is that incorrect?We have to be careful about making statements like that. It’s sometimes too easy to think of sacraments (and even sacramentals) as things/events that “automatically” trigger something* else.
Everyone passes through purgatory on the way to heaven (the only exceptions being our Lord and His Blessed Mother).
Assuming faith and sincere contrition on the part of the dying person, we can be confident that under those circumstances, that person will enter into heaven. We are likewise confident that the means Christ has given us for forgiveness of our sins (baptism, confession, acts of charity, etc.) will lessen our time in purgatory.
We must do everything possible to ensure that a dying person has access to a priest and receives the Last Rites of the Church in faith and sincerity. As for how “time” works in eternity, we leave that to the Almighty.
*by “something” I mean something beyond what the sacraments do impart directly. Baptism does “automatically” make one a member of the Body of Christ, ordination “automatically” makes a man a priest, etc. etc.
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Vico
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CatechismIt has been my understanding that should a person die immediately after baptism they go straight to Heaven and do not go to Purgatory first. Is that incorrect?
*
1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin.66 In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam’s sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God.
The punishments of sin*
1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.83
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FrDavid96
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I tried to avoid having to write this sentence the first time, but apparently it’s necessary:It has been my understanding that should a person die immediately after baptism they go straight to Heaven and do not go to Purgatory first. Is that incorrect?
The sacraments are not magic, and we should not treat them as if they were. We should not speak of them as if they were magic.
What if a person has a sinful thought after baptism, but before death? That’s a sin. It happens after baptism. Would the time in purgatory be minimal? Surely yes. How much time in purgatory, leave that to God to decide. Further speculation on the matter begins to smack of superstition because it leads to question like “how long does it take to form a sinful thought?”
We should speak with confidence about God’s mercy, especially His mercy manifested in the Sacraments. Absolutely yes.
Vico quoted the catechism. It addresses this issue. Elsewhere, the Catechism addresses the issue of sin.
We should know and understand the fullness of the Church’s truth with regard to sin, mercy, forgiveness, etc. etc.
We can be confident (know with the assurances of faith) that when one has been forgiven & absolved (whether by Baptism, Confession, martyrdom, etc.) that person will go to heaven because the sin and the punishment due to sin has been remitted. Here insert the entire teaching of the Church with regard to the subject matter.]
Leave the rest to God.
T
thistle
Guest
I have not suggested the sacraments are magic so I’m disappointed you think I could even think that.I tried to avoid having to write this sentence the first time, but apparently it’s necessary:
The sacraments are not magic, and we should not treat them as if they were. We should not speak of them as if they were magic.
What if a person has a sinful thought after baptism, but before death? That’s a sin. It happens after baptism. Would the time in purgatory be minimal? Surely yes. How much time in purgatory, leave that to God to decide. Further speculation on the matter begins to smack of superstition because it leads to question like “how long does it take to form a sinful thought?”
We should speak with confidence about God’s mercy, especially His mercy manifested in the Sacraments. Absolutely yes.
Vico quoted the catechism. It addresses this issue. Elsewhere, the Catechism addresses the issue of sin.
We should know and understand the fullness of the Church’s truth with regard to sin, mercy, forgiveness, etc. etc.
We can be confident (know with the assurances of faith) that when one has been forgiven & absolved (whether by Baptism, Confession, martyrdom, etc.) that person will go to heaven because the sin and the punishment due to sin has been remitted. Here insert the entire teaching of the Church with regard to the subject matter.]
Leave the rest to God.
Yes a person could have a sinful thought immediately after baptism but that is not what I want to know.
You seem to be implying that even if the time spent in Purgatory is a nano second only EVERYONE nevertheless spends time in Purgatory first. That is not what I have been taught by priests.
I would then like to clarify this so I can go back the priests who have so instructed me with an explanation.
Yes I know only God knows the state of someone’s soul at death so we don’t know where anyone goes.
However, objectively speaking, are you saying that if a baby dies after being baptised, or if an adult dies immediately after being baptised without any sinful thought or deed they still go to Purgatory first.
D
Don_Ruggero
Guest
As a priest who is new to this forum and whose priesthood is not tied to North America, I confess I am having a real difficulty in coming to understand certain mindsets that are enigmatic to me – both as an older priest but also, I have to think, because of the different cultures.You seem to be implying that even if the time spent in Purgatory is a nano second only EVERYONE nevertheless spends time in Purgatory first. That is not what I have been taught by priests.
I would then like to clarify this so I can go back the priests who have so instructed me with an explanation.
Am I to understand you seek to have an answer because you wish to go back to priests who instructed you with an explanation for them from Father David, with the intention of correcting what they taught you? If so, I imagine those priests would find such a thing enigmatic for them.
I assume you know that in order to be ordained, we spend many years studying philosophy. These concepts and disciplines of philosophy underlie and support the years of theology we then study – and some of us then go on to spend the rest of our lives teaching theology, growing in our discipline as the years pass.
Theology is virtually the air we breathe across our entire lives as priests. It is our daily life. Theology for us is not rules that we transcribe and file away like recipes in a book or paragraphs in a catechism…it is an academic discipline in many facets…systematic, sacramental, moral, mystical and ascetical, pastoral to name a few…which guides our thoughts and how we approach the situations we confront in our pastoral ministry or academically with our students and it is the paradigm for the answers we give to the questions we receive.
If a baby dies after being baptised and before attaining the use of reason, it being incapable of committing personal sin or incurring subjective moral guilt, there is no theological criteria for that soul being detained in purgatory since it has been washed of original sin and infused with sanctifying grace. What is the journey for the soul and its existential experience of its “journey” as it leaves the body and enters eternity is a topic that is really not an expounded part of the deposit of the faith. Father David’s point remains perfectly valid…one should not be trying to quantify in temporal terms what is, by its very nature, proper to eternity. His expression about the circumstances he was discussing and what we accept with the certitude of faith, and its assent, is theologically solid.However, objectively speaking, are you saying that if a baby dies after being baptised, or if an adult dies immediately after being baptised without any sinful thought or deed they still go to Purgatory first.
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FrDavid96
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To all who are reading here:
My point is that conversations in which we talk about consequences of a Sacrament or sacramental that “automatically trigger” admission directly into Heaven, bypassing purgatory entirely, are simply not healthy ways of looking at the Sacraments and sacramentals.
Conversations like that simply serve no legitimate purpose. They’re merely speculation. Even if we speak of these scenarios in hypothetical terms, that still serves no real purpose because the hypotheticals are so extreme that it’s nearly impossible that they could actually apply to any real person.
There is no shortage (unfortunately) of literature and communication that promises automatic entrance into heaven. Such information either comes dangerously close to being superstitious, or in the extreme (again, no shortage) is outright superstition. It is dangerous ground and we should avoid it.
Talking about “automatic results” of Sacraments or sacramentals (beyond what they actually do immediately effect) is simply not a healthy way of discussing our faith, and we should avoid such methods of conversing.
My point is that conversations in which we talk about consequences of a Sacrament or sacramental that “automatically trigger” admission directly into Heaven, bypassing purgatory entirely, are simply not healthy ways of looking at the Sacraments and sacramentals.
Conversations like that simply serve no legitimate purpose. They’re merely speculation. Even if we speak of these scenarios in hypothetical terms, that still serves no real purpose because the hypotheticals are so extreme that it’s nearly impossible that they could actually apply to any real person.
There is no shortage (unfortunately) of literature and communication that promises automatic entrance into heaven. Such information either comes dangerously close to being superstitious, or in the extreme (again, no shortage) is outright superstition. It is dangerous ground and we should avoid it.
Talking about “automatic results” of Sacraments or sacramentals (beyond what they actually do immediately effect) is simply not a healthy way of discussing our faith, and we should avoid such methods of conversing.
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