Extremely distressing religious thoughts: Scrupulous or am I really sinning?

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meg113

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Hi everyone, so this is kind of a difficult situation to explain. And even writing it out is distressing as I’ve gone back and forth about whether to post this. But I’ve decided to post it in the hopes that maybe others who have dealth with similar feelings or who are strong in the faith will be able to help.

To begin with, I’m in my twenties and since I was around 9 have struggle with obsessive compulsive religious thoughts where I would constantly pray and do little rituals because i thought I would displease God and bad things would happen if I didn’t.

For the past few years of so I have been following the message of Mary of Medjuroje and have found a lot of comfort in them (although I know there are mixed opinions due to lack of validation by the church). Regardless, recently I read of the messages where Mary has asked for us to fast on bread and water. Because I know that fasting on bread and water is too great a task at the moment for me, I orginally decided I would just try and cut out desserts, chocolate, coffee, meat, and basically just try and eat plain on Wednesdays and Fridays. But I also started giving up internet and listening to music to make up for the fact that I’m not fasting on just bread and water.

This has been quite the challenge as I have begun to dread Wednesdays and Fridays. I feel guilty for not being able to give up everything but bread and waterm as our Blessed Mother of Medjugorje says that fasting can stop wars. I feel guitly because the hardest things for me to give up is coffee. I literally, feel like I’m in such a bad mood. I don’t drink a lot of coffee on the other days, maybe 2-3 cups, but I feel like my desire to stop giving up stuff is a sign that I am putting my flesh and the material world before God.

I guess I feel guilty because if I really loved God, giving things up wouldn’t be hard. And if I really loved other people, I should want to fast in order to help them.

And even if the messages aren’t false, if I really loved God, shouldn’t I be willing to give these things up? Shouldn’t I want to?!

I guess I just need advice on what to do. I don’t know if I’m just being scrupulous. Sometimes when I pray I feel as though our Blessed Mother is telling me that it is good to give up these things. And I agree that I shouldn’t be dependent on them. But other times I think our Blessed Mother is telling me to just living in moderation. I think sometimes, knowing that I won’t let myself have coffee on W and Fs is making me over consume it on the other days.

I’m sorry, I know this post sounds crazy, but I really feel so distressed and it’s causing me to question whether or not I really believe in God or if I’m just living with compulsions which I have been my whole life.

I feel as though I’m so anxious lately in regards to my faith, any advice would be greaty appreciated. I just want to feel at peace and to understand how God wants us to live, because, so far, I feel as though I’m doing a bad job, either way at living how God wants me to.
 
Such a sensitive soul. I pray you find the best possible spiritual director you can to help you with these issues. If you do listen to the messages coming out of Medjugorje, please do so with extreme caution. One of the messages was akin to all religions being equal before God, or something like that (which is obviously false). You and the defeat of your scrupulosity are in my prayers!
 
Yes, this is anxiety/scrupulosity, not Christian faith. Consuming only bread and water would not be a healthy diet at all.

Find a good spiritual director to advise you on your spiritual life. Have you talked with a physician or counselor about compulsions?
 
meg113 said:
I guess I just need advice on what to do. I don’t know if I’m just being scrupulous.
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Yes, this situation does come across as scrupulosity.

Meg, my heart really breaks when I read threads like these. It’s incredibly difficult to try to help someone in your situation over the internet, because what you really need is local help from a holy priest/religious/layperson.

I would encourage you to keep in mind that Jesus loves you tremendously, and that He thirsts for your own love. But we need not confuse loving Jesus greatly with doing great works for Him. As certain Saints have taught, we can do even little things for Him in love, and those little things are like so many flowers.

If something is too difficult for you, then don’t pursue it. God is not pleased with suffering or with our experiencing difficulties as such, He’s pleased with our reactions when they are formed in love and in a desire to do His will. But we can’t have those things without His grace, and most of us are just starting along that path. Have patience with yourself! And keep in mind that God doesn’t call us to trust in ourselves or to have faith in our ability, but rather in Him. God will complete the good work He started in you.

… and by all means, I would also encourage you to leave those alleged apparitions behind, since they have been judged as being non-supernatural by the local bishops for over twenty years now. They are clearly causing you distress and are being used by the enemy to torment you. Pursue some of the wonderful approved Marian apparitions instead.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
Yes, this is anxiety/scrupulosity, not Christian faith. Consuming only bread and water would not be a healthy diet at all.

Find a good spiritual director to advise you on your spiritual life. Have you talked with a physician or counselor about compulsions?
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This is good advice, OP. Obsessive thoughts and scrupulocity are symptoms of OCD, and you can get help for it. You don’t have to live in a constant state of anxiety, I promise you. I’m so sorry you’ve struggled with this for so long.

Lou
 
If you are drinking 3 cups of coffee 5 days a week you are definitely going to notice it on the other 2 days of the week. Mood swings, irritability, anxiety, depression, negative thoughts for example.
 
It certainly sounds like you are suffering from scrupulosity, perhaps even OCD. First and foremost, you must find a regular confessor to help you with these scruples. That is going to help you the most. He can determine whether you might need medical help or not. I can assure you that you are not sinning.

I would recommend that you stop reading the messages of Medjugorje and stop your fastings as these seem to be making your scruples worse; plus, Medjugorje has not been approved by the Church, the Church has actually not looked favorably on those apparitions for quite some time. It is best to stick with apparitions that have been approved by the Church, such as Lourdes & Fatima. Loving God does not mean you must fast on bread & water or give up as much as you are right now. This is not for everyone. If you wish to fast or perform some other similar penance beyond what the Church requires, it would be best that you do it under the spiritual direction of a priest. May the Sacred Heart of Jesus console you.
 
Dear Meg, yes I think this is scrupulosity. I know how painful it is because I have scruples too.

We can do many good things for God. But what He wants most is our love, and these things are to demonstrate our love. If we do them out of fear, that is less perfect. Remember love takes away fear… try to just love Jesus more as the foundation of everything you offer to Him. He wants us to be cheerful givers 🙂 if you’re unable to give something up for Him or to do something for Him, He knows already, and He isn’t condemning you for weakness. The Saints rejoiced in their weaknesses because that meant they need God 🙂 as we grow, it gets easier. But fear can paralyze us like what happens with scruples.

Do you have a spiritual director or at least a regular confessor? this is really important in overcoming scruples. If you have OCD you may need to see someone about that, if you don’t already, but the religious aspect of this can be also helped by a priest. It’s very important to be obedient to him though to be healed.

What if you just spent some time with Jesus in prayer daily, not praying about things that worry you or even how to serve Him, but just BEING with Him and thinking of His love? that can strengthen you perhaps. 🙂

regarding any revelations that have not been approved, my approach is to let the Church decide. If any get approved in the future, - great! But it’s up to the Church.

Have you heard of the Divine Mercy devotion? it may be of comfort to someone who is scrupulous.

God bless you 🙂
 
meg113 said:
I guess I feel guilty because if I really loved God, giving things up wouldn’t be hard. And if I really loved other people, I should want to fast in order to help them.

And even if the messages aren’t false, if I really loved God, shouldn’t I be willing to give these things up? Shouldn’t I want to?!
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I see that you must love God because you are fasting. I also see that you love humanity by wanting to help us all through fasting.

Please try to see that your awareness of this is already proof enough of your love and spiritual advancement. Material fasts are not as much focused on the physical act as much as the spiritual benefit they produce. If your interior is already conditioned to the kind of love and awareness the fast was meant to produce, you could possibly be better off just devoting that energy to prayer.

This is just my personal view and I am a great sinner and no expert.
 
There is a reason the Church does not approve the Medugorje apparitions! So in obedience to the Church, you should avoid them. Look where they have gotten you!

Undertaking more than a light fast should only be done under supervision of a spiritual director. In fact, it is our spiritual enemy who will try to get us to commit to spiritual undertakings to heavy for us, then castigate us when we fail.

So in addition to seeing a good priest or holy person for the scrupulously, you should be under direction for any less ordinary mortifications. Focus first on fulfilling the duties of your state in life.
 
I used to do the “religious ritual” thing as a kid too. I also had mild OCD in everyday life and I developed scruples.

You definitely sound like you are overdoing your fasting. I know some people that could go on bread and water on Wednesdays and Fridays and not really care. For others it is tantamount to self-torture! 😛

Nothing wrong with a bit of a sacrifice, but it should be mild. For example, just giving up nice things on Fridays, or maybe even eating a dinner that you don’t like but you know is really good for you. Completely giving up coffee, not so much. Maybe one cup less a day? Whatever you feel would make the day slightly harder but still very much manageable.

I don’t mean do all of the above one the same day BTW, I mean one or two 🙂
 
I can’t add much to what others have said, but if you haven’t already I recommend reading Story of a Soul, St Therese’s autobiography. She compares souls with a garden: God has created some saints like Sts Paul, Augustine and Teresa to do great and mighty things for Him, and compared them to roses and lilies. God has created other “little” saints that glorify Him in their everyday lives by giving up everything to Him. These saints are flowers like daisies, and the great flowers to nothing to take away the little ones’ beauty. “God doesn’t look so much at the things we do, but the love with which we do them.”

Instead of fasting twice a week, perhaps try meatless Fridays and see where that takes you? Again I recommend reading Therese the Little Flower. I will pray for you!
 
There is no obligation to do that fast.* Even *if it were from an approved apparition there would be no obligation.
 
I will re-post an older post of mine

A person struggles with scruples - what ought they do?

A person with scrupulosity --ought to have a “regular confessor” who can direct them --and even give them some general principles/rules to follow -to apply (principles for them due to their particular scruples -they are usually not for those with a normal conscience). Thus with their direction they can dismiss scruples. Such is the age old practice in the Church.

Scruples are to be dismissed not argued with.

Scruples are like a barking dog or a hissing goose -one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose does one? One keeps walking.

(image from a Carthusian writer from centuries ago).

As to counseling - that could be helpful depending on the case -but one would want to look for a counselor who can assist one in following the Churches Teachings - not go contrary to them (I have heard CA staff mention catholictherapists.com/) Some person with scrupulosity may yes also suffer from OCD - but the two are not simply equated.

Here is an article from Jimmy Akin of CA that I saw in the Register and saved for those who struggle with such.

ncregister.com/blog/jimmy…the-scrupulous
Also I will add for there are many readers in this forum - that a person can go through a case of “transient scruples”. Which is good news in a way. For they are more easily dealt with.

Such can be due to being a convert to the faith. Such is noted in theological works in terms of (some of) those who have a conversion (even if they were a Catholic all their life - but now have had a more intense turning to Christ and seeking Christian perfection).

Such can even be helpful for they can make one be more sensitive in conscience in a good way. Helpful that is if you have a regular confessor who can judge your case - and who can then direct you and help you in forming your conscience and in doing so the “transient scruples” can clear up and one can go forward with a better formed conscience and commitment to the Lord.

In any case - a regular confessor is key for those who struggle with scruples - be they transient or a more persistent difficulty
 
Dear friend,

Hello, I also developed scrupulosity in the past (yes you also have it).
Many saints developed this, and they themselves said it was awful.

As LumenGloriae posted above this post, you can follow approved apparitions (like Fatima, or Mt. Carmel [Mt. Carmel feast is tomorrow!:)]) Fasting on bread and water is not necessary, only not committing gluttony is necessary. I had this mentality a couple years back of eating “just enough” (not dieting) and I ended up losing weight in an unhealthy way.

The point of fasting is to detach yourself from the world so you can bring yourself to God, but this is hurting your belief in God, then don’t do it!

The Mother Church has a bare minimum obligation of fasting 2 times a year (Ash Wednesday, Good Friday) and no meat on Fridays in the year. Anything else is not obligated.

I highly recommend that you find a holy, learned, and regular confessor to take these problems with. Once you identify him as such, obey him (completely), as Our Lord desires “obedience, not sacrifice”.
You can also read Scrupulous Anonymous newsletters and 10 commandments for the scrupulous.

Scrupulous Anonymous Link:
scrupulousanonymous.org/resources/sa-pdf-archive/

10 Commandments for the Scrupulous:
spiritualdirection.com/2009/07/14/the-ten-commandments-of-scrupulosity

God bless you always
 
I really feel for you because as a child, I was affected by something similar.

There is a type of OCD called ‘Pure O’ which sounds very much like what you are dealing with.

Do talk to a professional person about your worries: although you might feel like you are the only one who has these types of thoughts, you definitely aren’t and there are religious and secular experts who will have dealt with similar issues many times before.
 
St_Francis said:
There is a reason the Church does not approve the Medugorje apparitions! So in obedience to the Church, you should avoid them. Look where they have gotten you!

**Undertaking more than a light fast should only be done under supervision of a spiritual director. In fact, it is our spiritual enemy who will try to get us to commit to spiritual undertakings to heavy for us, then castigate us when we fail.
**
So in addition to seeing a good priest or holy person for the scrupulously, you should be under direction for any less ordinary mortifications. Focus first on fulfilling the duties of your state in life.
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^^^This.^^^ Take it from me, a recovering scrupe! 😉 I was blessed to have the well-known Fr. Thomas Santa as my spiritual director back in the day. And other priests following him till I was able for the most part to fly on my own again. I recall something in the Scrupulous Anonymous question and answers I’ve read over the years about scrupulous people taking on personal vows and then being a wreck because they overcommitted themselves. This is a similar type of situation. The commitment is excessive for you at this time, especially while dealing with the stress of scruples themselves.

Get the spiritual director, a Catholic counselor if needed, any health issues addressed, and simplify, simplify, simplify. In the world we live in we’re bombarded by news reports of terrible evils in the world and I think all our nerves are a bit frayed. And sometimes we feel burdened internally - the devil throws our past sins and mistakes in our faces, or we are busy and in burnout, for younger women the monthly cycle can even add extra anxiety. Think of it this way - you’re a temple of the Holy Spirit - take good care of the temple (but without stressing about it!) and be at peace. :blessyou:
 
Thank you everyone for your messages. I ended up just giving up meat today. I still felt kind of guilty but it felt freeing to just live normally. I guess I’m really struggling with trying to determine how God wants me to live. I tell others that God loves them, but I have so much trouble comprehending that God really loves us.

I feel as though a large part of my faith has always been anxiety driven and it’s hard to face the fact that maybe I dont actually believe in God. Does anyone have tips to come to understand how to grow in faith. I go to church weekly and do pray often, but again, don’t really feel like my prayers are as deep in conversation with God as they could be.

I’m sure it’s never easy, but thanks again for the help. Hopefully I can talk to a priest about these feelings.
 
meg113 said:
And even if the messages aren’t false, if I really loved God, shouldn’t I be willing to give these things up? Shouldn’t I want to?!
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Also, the desire to go back to eating and drinking these things aren’t sinful/bad AT ALL. You were on a normal diet previously, and your body is adjusting/undergoing to this new, austere diet.

You remind me of a French priest who kept thinking that he wasn’t doing enough for God, and was tempted to despair because he thought he was not a good priest, when in reality, he was amazing.

If you want to make our Lord really happy, you can pray for me 😃 and all of us, as it’s a Spiritual Act of Mercy, which was requested by Our Lady of Fatima!
You probably know that at Fatima, Mary asked for us to pray the Rosary for world peace and pray for sinners to not separate themselves from Jesus.
Thank you everyone for your messages. I ended up just giving up meat today. I still felt kind of guilty but it felt freeing to just live normally. I guess I’m really struggling with trying to determine how God wants me to live. I tell others that God loves them, but I have so much trouble comprehending that God really loves us.
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I feel as though a large part of my faith has always been anxiety driven and it’s hard to face the fact that maybe I dont actually believe in God. Does anyone have tips to come to understand how to grow in faith. I go to church weekly and do pray often, but again, don’t really feel like my prayers are as deep in conversation with God as they could be.
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I’m sure it’s never easy, but thanks again for the help. Hopefully I can talk to a priest about these feelings.
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As for that last post, the Rosary, like I stated above will help increase your faith.
Listen to Catholic Answers Radio, which takes calls from atheist callers and refutes their arguments, as well as other resources to combat atheism. Keep in mind that the Church teaches that one can come to of God through reason

The links:
[Just search apologetics questions throughout catholic.com, not the forums alone]
catholic.com
%between%
catholic.com/radio/calendar

A Catholic book:
Answering Atheism by Trent Horn, and other blogs of Trent Horn against Atheism
 
Thank you everyone for your messages. I ended up just giving up meat today. I still felt kind of guilty but it felt freeing to just live normally. I guess I’m really struggling with trying to determine how God wants me to live. I tell others that God loves them, but I have so much trouble comprehending that God really loves us.
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I feel as though a large part of my faith has always been anxiety driven and it’s hard to face the fact that maybe I dont actually believe in God. Does anyone have tips to come to understand how to grow in faith. I go to church weekly and do pray often, but again, don’t really feel like my prayers are as deep in conversation with God as they could be.
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I’m sure it’s never easy, but thanks again for the help. Hopefully I can talk to a priest about these feelings.
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God bless always, if you want to start a new thread about faith, that’s fine as well
 
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