Facebook Friend (Fellow Catholic) Asks Tough Question

[TarlsQtr]

Hello all.

I checked my Facebook page this morning and a friend had a question I am struggling with. A little background, she is in her 30’s and lost her husband a few months ago (they have several children). He was a cradle Catholic but she is a convert.

One of her daughters just lost her long-time boyfriend and although the question is framed around that issue, I am certain that my friend is having some of the same emotions about the loss of her own husband. Here is the relevant part of the message, redacted.

Now I have a response partially formulated in my head but I just do not think it sufficient to answer such a difficult question in a manner that could relieve some of this obvious pain. Ask me why Peter is “The Rock” and I can go on for days but this is where the rubber really meets the road with our faith and I just do not feel adequate for the task. Any ideas, comments, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Edward_H]

Hello all.

I checked my Facebook page this morning and a friend had a question I am struggling with. A little background, she is in her 30’s and lost her husband a few months ago (they have several children). He was a cradle Catholic but she is a convert.

One of her daughters just lost her long-time boyfriend and although the question is framed around that issue, I am certain that my friend is having some of the same emotions about the loss of her own husband. Here is the relevant part of the message, redacted.

My daughter’s boyfriend just passed away from a car accident. He was only 18. I believe everything happens for a reason, we just don’t always understand the reason right now. People have said, he was able to save 7 people with his organs so his death wasn’t for nothing. But what makes these 7 people so much more important than him, that he had to die to save them?

Now I have a response partially formulated in my head but I just do not think it sufficient to answer such a difficult question in a manner that could relieve some of this obvious pain. Ask me why Peter is “The Rock” and I can go on for days but this is where the rubber really meets the road with our faith and I just do not feel adequate for the task. Any ideas, comments, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

We don’t know God’s will and all of the downstream natural AND supernatural value of His will. His will is both positive and permissive. He permits suffering. Sometimes suffering is allowed/permitted because it draws us, or others, closer to Him. This drawing closer may not be immediate or even apparent to us, or to others.

Encourage her to consider the supernatural motive and value of these losses.

Encourage her to use these events as material for deep and ongoing prayer - conversation - with God.

It may be up to her - and to you - as cooperators with God to “wring” supernatural value and meaning out of these events and associated value.

Remind her that there is a difference between sadness and sorrow. We may be sorrowful - but we shouldn’t remain sad for long. Our faith (trust) and hope in God should help us maintain or re-establish quickly our serenity as a child of God.

 

[Orogeny]

My daughter’s boyfriend just passed away from a car accident. He was only 18. I believe everything happens for a reason, we just don’t always understand the reason right now. People have said, he was able to save 7 people with his organs so his death wasn’t for nothing. But what makes these 7 people so much more important than him, that he had to die to save them?

He didn’t have to die so that they could live. He had to die because he was human and we all die. We don’t know why God chose that particular time for his death, but rest assured, he would have died (as we all will) at some point. It turns out that the timing may have been important to 7 other people, but we don’t know if they would have gotten organs from other sources had he not died.

What I am trying to say is that his death is not due to his value versus the 7 people who received organs from him. He is a child of God. There cannot be a more valuable person than that.

Although I understand why we do it, I think we can hurt ourselves by asking those kind of questions.
Peace

Tim

 

[St_Francis]

People whose loved ones die are suffering. Suffering is redemptive, so they need to offer up the suffering and ask God to help them accept his will for them.

This is very hard, but sometimes we have to be grateful for the time we had with a loved kne, that God allowed us that time with him, because God does not owe us anything, nor do we have any right to anything.

But it has nothing to do with organ donation, as that is a relatively recent development.

 

[PatrickSebast]

I think one of the most important things to consider is that you will likely not be able to answer this question fully. Pope Benedict even recently stated that we don’t have a full answer to suffering in reference to a question regarding the Children who died in Japan.

telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/8468312/Pope-Benedict-admits-there-isnt-a-full-answer-to-suffering-in-rare-TV-interview.html

Even Christ said:

Matthew 5:4: “Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.”

Which seems to indicate that there are no words to solve the problem of suffering in the Human mind and that mourning itself is our blessing and comfort to overcome that struggle.

 

[JRKH]

He didn’t have to die so that they could live. He had to die because he was human and we all die. We don’t know why God chose that particular time for his death, but rest assured, he would have died (as we all will) at some point. It turns out that the timing may have been important to 7 other people, but we don’t know if they would have gotten organs from other sources had he not died.

What I am trying to say is that his death is not due to his value versus the 7 people who received organs from him. He is a child of God. There cannot be a more valuable person than that.

Although I understand why we do it, I think we can hurt ourselves by asking those kind of questions.
Peace

Tim

This is a good answer…

OP,
It is natural for us humans to ask these questions…Why loved ones are taken from us.
And the grief we feel is real and should never be downplayed.
Yet if we believe, and if our loved ones died in a state of grace, then death has no sting.
We die when we die…We will see our loved ones again soon enough.
God’s will be done.
In this case the death had many benefits for other people.
Unfortunately it holds great sorrow for others.

So have hope. Look to the resurrection and the life to come…

It’s perhaps not the most comforting advice, but it’s the Truth of our faith and without it we have nothing.

Peace
James

 

[jpjd]

Post #3 is exactly right.

Prayers for your friend and her daughter.

 

[dcrowmik]

But what makes these 7 people so much more important than him, that he had to die to save them?

I suppose the rhetorical question to ask her back – especially on Good Friday – is this:

What makes US so much more important than HIM (Jesus) that He had to die to save us?

Is it really a question of who is more important than whom?

 

[foundmyfaith]

I don’t believe that God has anything to do with the manner of death. We were given free will. My 17-year-old son was killed this year. When I spoke with my priest, he said that God is not cruel, and that God did not kill my son. A tow truck killed him. We will all die someday based on our own decisions and infirmities, or the poor decisions of others.

 

[tuscany]

**
When I saw that quote, I automatically thought of Jesus. He died to save us. He is way more important than we are, but He had to die to save us. It takes nothing away from the person who died, nor does it make those being saved “more important”.
He didn’t HAVE to die to save them, he just died and others were saved by his family giving consent to use his organs.

You might have her think on this~

When we look at the Crucifix, there is Jesus, very near death, but not yet dead. He is at the worst part of His suffering. He is there in this suffering so that He is there for us in ours. He did absolutely nothing to deserve this, was totally innocent. But there He is, suffering there with us when we suffer too. We join our suffering to His, and He joins His to ours.

This is not something we will ever understand till we enter the next phase of our life (which we can ONLY get to if we die), but God who sees the way bigger picture, will make it known to us then.

Faith is when you hurt the most, you hang onto God the hardest.

I will keep your friends in my prayers.**

 

[tuscany]

**I also recieved this today, and thought it might possibly be shared with them also:

If you never felt pain, then how would you know that I am a Healer?
If you never had to pray, how would you know that I am a Deliverer?
If you never had a trial, how could you call yourself an overcomer?
If you never felt sadness, how would you know that I am a Comforter?
If you never made a mistake, how would you know that I am a Forgiver?
If you knew all, how would you know that I will answer your questions?
If you never were in trouble, how would you know that I will come to your rescue?
If you never were broken, then how would you know that I can make you whole?
If you never had a problem, how would you know that I can solve them?
If you never had any suffering, then how would you know what I went through?
If you never went through the fire, then how would you become pure?
If I gave you all things, how would you appreciate them?
If I never corrected you, how would you know that I love you?
If you had all power, then how would you learn to depend on me?
If your life was perfect, then what would you need me for?

Love,
Jesus **

 

[3Sanctus]

Ask your friend to meditate on this:

What makes every human being who has ever been conceived so important that God had to die to save all of them?

The fact is life on this Earth is only a means to an end. We act and live as if things like family, our loved ones, the things we do with our time are in any way ends in and of themselves. The only end (in and of itself) is God. Anything and everything that happens has the ultimate end of union with God as a result of partaking of the Beatific Vision after entrance into Heaven. Anything else pales in comparison and is fueled by the Love that is God.

Deus caritas est (God is love). When we realize this, believe it, accept it, and fully consent to His love - that is when we see what is actually going on. All these mundane things in our lives (whether they be as simple as a walk down the hall at work or as meaningful as the birth of a child or as painful as the loss of a loved one) are simply stepping stones for all people involved - stepping stones to God.

It’s easy to provide distraction from a bad experience in life - from something like a painful loss of a loved one. What your friend needs is God - she needs someone to hold her hand so she can stand up and walk towards Him. Unfortunately, that’s not an easy path. The easy path involves continuous wallowing in our misery, since only through, with, and in God can any good be wrought.

Prayers for you and your friend. Ask her to consider the end goal of God in existence and to consider how Our Lady the Blessed Virgin Mother of God felt seeing her Son and her God being scourged, crowned with thorns, crucified, and mocked because of the good he was trying to go for His creation. Ask her to offer her pain and her daughter’s pain up to Jesus through Mary, that her suffering may be united to Mary’s and that the joy of the resurrection may be hers, by way of the same Holy Mother of God.

 

[NeedImprovement]

Hello all.

I checked my Facebook page this morning and a friend had a question I am struggling with. A little background, she is in her 30’s and lost her husband a few months ago (they have several children). He was a cradle Catholic but she is a convert.

One of her daughters just lost her long-time boyfriend and although the question is framed around that issue, I am certain that my friend is having some of the same emotions about the loss of her own husband. Here is the relevant part of the message, redacted.
TarlsQtr's Facebook friend:

My daughter’s boyfriend just passed away from a car accident. He was only 18. I believe everything happens for a reason, we just don’t always understand the reason right now. People have said, he was able to save 7 people with his organs so his death wasn’t for nothing. But what makes these 7 people so much more important than him, that he had to die to save them?

Now I have a response partially formulated in my head but I just do not think it sufficient to answer such a difficult question in a manner that could relieve some of this obvious pain. Ask me why Peter is “The Rock” and I can go on for days but this is where the rubber really meets the road with our faith and I just do not feel adequate for the task. Any ideas, comments, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

I would concur with JRKH’s answer in reference to Tim’s post # 3 .

This is a good answer…

OP,
It is natural for us humans to ask these questions…Why loved ones are taken from us.
And the grief we feel is real and should never be downplayed.
Yet if we believe, and if our loved ones died in a state of grace, then death has no sting.
We die when we die…We will see our loved ones again soon enough.
God’s will be done.
In this case the death had many benefits for other people.
Unfortunately it holds great sorrow for others.

So have hope. Look to the resurrection and the life to come…

It’s perhaps not the most comforting advice, but it’s the Truth of our faith and without it we have nothing.

Peace
James

Your friend is still stuck on the question “why” it had to happen. That’s a really painful place to be . I think I would only go so far as to help the friend clarify the “when” 's which have become somewhat obscured by the oversized *“why ?” *.

I might endeavor to point out that the organ donations/transplants only become feasible or tangible * after * a person’s death - not before. They will be able to think more clearly down the line if they can keep those two things in their proper chronological order.

(* …saying a prayer for your friend and for foundmyfaith)

 

[MontChevalier]

Well, I ain’t gonna sugar-coat it. It’s tough, when you lose a loved one.

The other day I was told my little brother got shot, while he was out camping. The first thing I did was try and avoid the pain, I tried to look on the positives: “Now that he’s dead, maybe the family can stop wasting so much money.” “Well, maybe it’s best this way.” “He was just another atheist, let him burn in hell.” (Granted, I am not a person with much peace in my mind, there’s alot of war going on in my head) In truth, I was just running away from the fact that I love my little brother.

Even after I found out that he wasn’t really dead, but was just a huge misunderstanding my father created, I was a little relieved.

It’s all coming down to how we handle these moments. Wether the lady wants to continue believing in God, or shutting down her faith like a worthless factory, is up to her. But situations happen and we all have to be prepared for when they happen, cause if we let ourselves become too deeply affected, then the loss may be worst than it should be, and we would have lost a part of ourselves we may never get back.

Let me give you a story:

When a man wakes up every day, he doesn’t expect the day to go any other way but normally. He gets up, eats breakfast, goes to work, comes back home, showers, eats again, then sleeps. One day, something unexpected happens, he can’t eat breakfast cause he forgot to buy food, his car breaks down, so he can’t go to work and when he tries to shower, he finds it’s broken. What does the man do?

There are few things he can do:

1. Do nothing.

or

1. Work through it.

It’s just like life. When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade, right? So, whatever the issue, whatever the problem, you just gotta work it out. This isn’t Sola Scriptura afterall.

With blessings from every Saint and Our God, the good King and Father,
-MontChevalier

 

[TarlsQtr]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their reasoned and well thought out answers. They have been a great help. Thanks also for those who have offered their prayers for the family.

 

[dixieagle]

I don’t believe that God has anything to do with the manner of death. We were given free will. My 17-year-old son was killed this year. When I spoke with my priest, he said that God is not cruel, and that God did not kill my son. A tow truck killed him. We will all die someday based on our own decisions and infirmities, or the poor decisions of others.

I am so very sorry for your terrible loss; I can only begin to imagine your pain.

You seem to be someone of deep faith, who understands the nature of things. Illness, death, tragedy all happen because of our fallen nature, not because God wills terrible things to happen.

God bless you; I will keep you and your son in my prayers.