Facing East

[MusicMan]

From what I’ve been reading, His Holiness is going to be making a number of changes to the ways in which the Mass is to be celebrated, however, it sounds like he’s using the, “you will not know the hour,” approach.

There are swirling rumors from the Vatican that he has been more and more reclusive and that many Vatican “insiders” see this as him setting the pieces in place for a big change.

While I can be very liberal in some areas, I am primarily conservative in much of my thinking about the Church. I am very eager (not anxious, as that implies a sense of worry) to see what he’s going to do. I really, really LIKE this Pope and I expect that he will make the right decisions on changes that need to be made.

It sounds like the TLM will be universally available, as will ad orientem in the NO. I’m not sure if this posture will be required, but bishops most certainly will be not allowed to forbid it in their dioceses. Regardless of what your position on Communion in the hand is, this Pope has no opinion either way. He has been quick to point out that early Christians practiced both and he has no strong urge to legislate one way of receiving or the other. Sorry, Dr. Bombay.

Oh, and I’m sorry about tempting you with the new BSG episodes… no I’m not… that’s about the best thing on TV now, and I’m happy to help spread interest!

 

[Dr.Bombay]

MusicMan:

From what I’ve been reading, His Holiness is going to be making a number of changes to the ways in which the Mass is to be celebrated, however, it sounds like he’s using the, “you will not know the hour,” approach.

There are swirling rumors from the Vatican that he has been more and more reclusive and that many Vatican “insiders” see this as him setting the pieces in place for a big change.

While I can be very liberal in some areas, I am primarily conservative in much of my thinking about the Church. I am very eager (not anxious, as that implies a sense of worry) to see what he’s going to do. I really, really LIKE this Pope and I expect that he will make the right decisions on changes that need to be made.

It sounds like the TLM will be universally available, as will ad orientem in the NO. I’m not sure if this posture will be required, but bishops most certainly will be not allowed to forbid it in their dioceses. Regardless of what your position on Communion in the hand is, this Pope has no opinion either way. He has been quick to point out that early Christians practiced both and he has no strong urge to legislate one way of receiving or the other. Sorry, Dr. Bombay.

Oh, and I’m sorry about tempting you with the new BSG episodes… no I’m not… that’s about the best thing on TV now, and I’m happy to help spread interest!

Certainly. I don’t believe the Pope is going to do much of anything in regards to the Mass, except add a few more options. That’s just what the Pauline Mass needs. He’s certainly not going to suppress Communion in the hand or girl altar boys or the congregational Sign of Peace. That will be a job for one of his successors to tackle. And tackle it he will, with glee.

What I got from the Spirit of the Liturgy was that, while Cardinal Ratzinger might prefer ad orientem Masses, he feels it would be imprudent to mandate a return to such a posture at this time. I forget exactly how he put it, but he felt it would be too disruptive or be too extreme a change.

BSG might very well be the best show on teevee. It certainly makes its cheesy 70s predecessor look even more ridiculous than it did on its own.

 

[Kielbasi]

Theoretically , the church could go to “facing east” or *ad orientem, *if you will.

But I don’t think its that practical of an idea, as it would require a lot of moving furniture and pews around in the churches, depending on how the building is sitting.

I suppose that for future church building projects, it might be something to do, but even then, in cities and other built up areas, it would be restrictive as to which lots the church should acquire.

On a scale of 1 to 10 in importance, moving to ad orientem just seems not to make the list considering other things the church could be doing with the resources.

 

[arieh0310]

Kielbasi:

Theoretically , the church could go to “facing east” or ad orientem, if you will.

But I don’t think its that practical of an idea, as it would require a lot of moving furniture and pews around in the churches, depending on how the building is sitting.

I suppose that for future church building projects, it might be something to do, but even then, in cities and other built up areas, it would be restrictive as to which lots the church should acquire.

On a scale of 1 to 10 in importance, moving to ad orientem just seems not to make the list considering other things the church could be doing with the resources.

Well, prior to V2 nearly all churches were oriented towards the east (only those that had land use or other restrictions oriented the church towards another compass direction). After V2 still the majority of churches were built oriented towards the east, it was just the altar that was flipped around. The vast, vast majority of parishes would only need to turn the altar around to celebrate mass ad orientem (a lot of altars could even be used both ways now).

 

[slewi]

Dr. Bombay:

It certainly makes its cheesy 70s predecessor look even more ridiculous than it did on its own.

Oh how I miss Dirk Benedict…of course, Starbuck as a hottie isn’t too bad either…

S

P.S. My post, my drift!

 

[mgy100]

Funny thing, in the local RC church here, when they flipped the altar around to face the people the priest THEN FACED EAST!! And it was built in the late 1880’s, and could have been built accordingly.

 

[Digitonomy]

Can someone explain this whole subject a bit more explicitly? Do “Facing East” as used in this thread, and ad orientem both mean the priest facing in the same direction the earth is spinning, or is this more an idiom for the priest facing away from the congregation?

And, what’s the deal in Irondale, AL? Did the bishop say a celebrant couldn’t say the mass facing in an Easterly direction, or that he couldn’t say it facing away from the congregation?

(only those that had land use or other restrictions oriented the church towards another compass direction).

So are most churches facing one of the four cardinal directions? I always did find it interesting that the church I grew up in faced due South, even though the road it was on was at an angle.

 

[arieh0310]

mgy100:

Funny thing, in the local RC church here, when they flipped the altar around to face the people the priest THEN FACED EAST!! And it was built in the late 1880’s, and could have been built accordingly.

These were rarities. From this article

Thus church buildings and the altars were “oriented” (faced to the east) so that the priest especially would see Him on His arrival. If because of the contour of the land or some other obstacle, the church could not be so located, then the priest, always looking toward the east, would have to stand behind the altar and face toward the people. That he was looking at the congregation was only accidental to the eastward position he took. Saint Peter’s Basilica in Rome is a good example of this, because the church could not have the usual west entrance because of the Vatican Hill.

When the church couldn’t accomodate a building where both the congregation and the priest faced east then at least the priest faced east.

 

[mercygate]

Digitonomy:

Can someone explain this whole subject a bit more explicitly? Do “Facing East” as used in this thread, and ad orientem both mean the priest facing in the same direction the earth is spinning, or is this more an idiom for the priest facing away from the congregation?

This thread is about liturgical east – i.e., toward the apse. Even when a church is physically positioned so that the apse points west (as St. Peter’s in Rome is), the end where the altar is located is still called “east.”

And, what’s the deal in Irondale, AL? Did the bishop say a celebrant couldn’t say the mass facing in an Easterly direction, or that he couldn’t say it facing away from the congregation?

He said that Masses where the celebrant faced liturgical east could not be televised. Since celebrating *ad *orientem was not forbidden in the official documents, and Mother Angelica enjoyed the private approval of both JP-2 and Cardinal Ratzinger, the bishop limited his restriction to telecasting.

So are most churches facing one of the four cardinal directions?

Many are. Most are not, although “important” churches tend to be when the geography permits.