Factory Farming

[mojave19]

I would like to see more of my fellow Catholics considering the ethics of humane animal treatment at America’s large factory farms. In fact, California has a proposition on its Nov 2008 ballot (Prop 2) about this and it has been supported by the National Catholic Rural Conference.
I find it very difficult to see animals stuffed into cages so small they can’t turn around. Especially mammals because they have more advanced intelligence and certainly feel, along with pain, fear as well as other emotions. I once lived on a farm and recall the farmer admitting to me how intelligent his pigs were, “like dogs, maybe smarter.”
I’m not so hungry or so inept at finding other adequate sources of protein to tolerate this.
All the saints I’ve ever read about were great friends of God’s creatures. I can’t see them thumbing up inhumane treatment to animals.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I would like to see more of my fellow Catholics considering the ethics of humane animal treatment at America’s large factory farms. In fact, California has a proposition on its Nov 2008 ballot (Prop 2) about this and it has been supported by the National Catholic Rural Conference.
I find it very difficult to see animals stuffed into cages so small they can’t turn around. Especially mammals because they have more advanced intelligence and certainly feel, along with pain, fear as well as other emotions. I once lived on a farm and recall the farmer admitting to me how intelligent his pigs were, “like dogs, maybe smarter.”
I’m not so hungry or so inept at finding other adequate sources of protein to tolerate this.
All the saints I’ve ever read about were great friends of God’s creatures. I can’t see them thumbing up inhumane treatment to animals.

I am not in CA but I also agree and support this proposition and hope it does pass. Like you said, when you really get to interact with nature you see how close we are to it. It can also be seen all across the rural Midwest.

 

[Joejohn39]

I totally agree that such practices as factory farming are inhumane and destructive, and I wish Catholics would talk more about this and other issues related to agriculture, industry, ecology, etc. Often it seems like we’re only interested in abortion and same-sex marriage when, in reality, we should be involved in every aspect of society, promoting values and customs compatible with Christian virtue.

However, I have a problem with the emphasis most activists in these areas place on governmental intervention and regulation. I would probably not vote for the proposition if I were in CA because it probably involves to use of coercive government force. Generally, moving the debate to the halls of state power does not work; it only grows goverment power. The next this you know, the lobbyists for the factory farms are going to convince the legislators to give them pork barrel subsidies.

The true solution to the problem lies at the grassroots: reforming our own lifestyles, boycotting farms that engage in such practices, and changing peoples’ hearts and minds. While a slower and more localized method than government fiat, it is the only means to solve the problem in lasting, complete, and decisive manner.

 

[pentecostbaby]

I’m concerned about the inhumane treatment of animals through factory farming. But I’m far MORE concerned about the human rights abuses going on in our meatpacking and agricultural sectors.

Please read Fast Food Nation and see what suffering big companies cause to poor and vulnerable workers - many of them immigrants, many of them unable to find other work. We’re talking ignoring major injuries, putting people in unsafe situations (knives, chemicals), etc.

 

[Newbie2]

Before one jumps on the “let’s ban factory farming” bandwagon, we need to take a few things into consideration:

1. At present, the containment methods used are the most efficient possible.
2. In order to meet the demand for meat products, poultry and otherwise, top efficiency is necessary. There are simply fewer farmers to feed more “city people” than any time in history.
3. Less efficient methods mean greater cost.
4. Stressed animals produce less product. Recognition of this fact moderates many of the production practices now in place.

That all being said, yes, of course there is room for significant improvement, and I agree with JoeJohn in that Government regulation isn’t the answer. Reducing demand is one way, but very difficult to achieve.

“Free-range” chickens are scrawny and significantly more expensive per pound, as is “free-range” beef.

I guess what I’m saying is yes, there is room for improvements in food animal production, but it comes with a cost. There has to be balance between final cost to the consumer (think about the poor that cannot afford meat now on a regular basis) and humane practices. Whether one agrees or not, our country is not ready to pay that cost.

PS…this doesn’t even take into consideration the discussion of what is truly humane and what is not. There are those on either fringe that would consider them as “just dumb animals” and on the other, species which are equal to humans, and that we have no right to kill them for food. The answer, methinks, lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

For the most part ‘Factory Farming’ is just a perjorative without an objective definition.

Attacking it is just short hand for forcing people to go vegitarian.

Like it or not, the truth is that we can’t feed the worlds current population with organic and free range food sources. CAN NOT.

And the situation is going to get worse very soon: the oceans are profoundly overfished, and are going to fade in importance to the human diet. Every year, a higher proportion of our food will have to come from land sources.

We already have the power to choose free range and organic, and we can choose to be omnivores, vegitarian or vegan.

Let’s maintain the right to choose for ourselves, rather than turning that power over to the nice folks from PETA and Greenpeace.

 

[MooCowSteph]

For the most part ‘Factory Farming’ is just a perjorative without an objective definition.

Attacking it is just short hand for forcing people to go vegitarian.

Like it or not, the truth is that we can’t feed the worlds current population with organic and free range food sources. CAN NOT.

And the situation is going to get worse very soon: the oceans are profoundly overfished, and are going to fade in importance to the human diet. Every year, a higher proportion of our food will have to come from land sources.

We already have the power to choose free range and organic, and we can choose to be omnivores, vegitarian or vegan.

Let’s maintain the right to choose for ourselves, rather than turning that power over to the nice folks from PETA and Greenpeace.

One can be against factory farming and still eat meat. Just last week I finished reading “The Compassionate Carnivore”. It was a real eye opener. And remember that not all organic farms are humane/sustainable farms and not all sustainable farms are organic.

I would like to see info on not being able to feed our people using sustainable methods. I agree that prices will increase, however, I think the cost is worth it for our health and the health and well-being of animals.

While I am generally not for government regulations and interventions, we already have las for working animals in tv or movies, and have animal abuse laws that apply to pets. I do not understand why those laws should not apply to animals being raised for food. WHy should they not be treated humanely? Why should they (mama pigs) be tied down so they won’t move and crush their babies when instead they could just be given enough room to move? Why should animals be slaughtered so quickly that they are often not stunned and then skinned alive? Why should chickens have to be de-beaked so they don’t peck each other to death, since they are kept in such insanely tight quarters?

 

[aggiecatholic05]

just another reason i like hunting. the animals live a free natural life until their hopefully instant death. ideally though the ranchers would self correct, because we have too much goverment already.

 

[Joejohn39]

I think, within Catholicism, there is some precedent here with the traditional concept of gluttony; this can apply to what food we buy: are we, as middle-class Americans not in danger of starvation, glutting ourselves with excessive reliance on cheap processed foods and fast foods?

 

[MooCowSteph]

just another reason i like hunting. the animals live a free natural life until their hopefully instant death. ideally though the ranchers would self correct, because we have too much goverment already.

agreed, although I myself do not hunt.

 

[Oscarthecat]

I agree with you that these animals should be treated much more humanely.

But government regulation is absolutely the wrong way to accomplish the greatest good.

Government regulation forces businesses to meet basic standards, but they will only do the bare minimum because 1) there is no market demand, and 2) government fines offer no financial motivation to do more than the minumum necessary to avoid the fine.

But companies will compete to gain customers- they will innovate to make sure they are doing more than their competitors, and they will make an effort to keep costs as low as possible because they know the market demands lower prices, too.
That kind of competition might even result in innovations that raise the bar much higher than what could be mandated by a government standard.

Right now there are plenty of farmers who exceed all government standards and raise free range, organic-fed animals. What’s more is that these animals are better treated than they would be by companies that are forced by the government to do the same, simply because one farmer is motivated by market reward, and the other is motivated by government punishment.

The free market encourages innovation, but government regulations cause stagnation.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

I’ve managed my family’s cattle ranch for over 30 years now. A lot of what we do would upset you, like branding calves. Does it hurt them? Yes, but not for long, and there’s no practical alternative.

I don’t need a PETA type writting the regs on that, or dropping by to make sure I’m doing things according to their standards.

We don’t mistreat animals, but we are a convenient target for those who seek political power by demonizing us.

Unless you are ready to live a 1850 lifestyle, you can’t legitimately expect all the nation’s food producers to revert to 1850 techniques.

 

[mapleoak]

One can be against factory farming and still eat meat.

Sure, all you have to do is raise your own animals and produce your own food.

I would like to see info on not being able to feed our people using sustainable methods.

Modern farming systems emphasize totally sustainable agrigultural production techniques.

I agree that prices will increase, however, I think the cost is worth it for our health and the health and well-being of animals.

Concern should also be considered for those less fortunate, unwilling to be extravagant on meat procurement to feed their families. And the assertion that animals used in food production are sickly, diseased, and mistreated is not only unfounded, but totally false.

While I am generally not for government regulations and interventions, we already have las for working animals in tv or movies, and have animal abuse laws that apply to pets. I do not understand why those laws should not apply to animals being raised for food.

They certainly do apply.

Why should animals be slaughtered so quickly that they are often not stunned and then skinned alive?

Yes, why should they. Thankfully, this doesn’t happen in real life, let alone happen often. It is nothing more than propaganda thrown upon an ignorant city dwelling public.

Why should chickens have to be de-beaked so they don’t peck each other to death

So that they don’t peck each other to death.

 

[mapleoak]

I’ve managed my family’s cattle ranch for over 30 years now. A lot of what we do would upset you, like branding calves. Does it hurt them? Yes, but not for long, and there’s no practical alternative.

I had some city dwellers visit my farm who were absolutely shocked when they found out we routinely de-horn (actually disbud) all of our animals at birth.

I don’t need a PETA type writting the regs on that, or dropping by to make sure I’m doing things according to their standards.

Exactly.

We don’t mistreat animals, but we are a convenient target for those who seek political power by demonizing us.

I believe the political powers take advantage of the ignorance of the populace on actual farming practices and appeal to the public’s emotions in order to gain easy support.

Unless you are ready to live a 1850 lifestyle, you can’t legitimately expect all the nation’s food producers to revert to 1850 techniques.

Not only is it impracticle, it cannot efficiently produce food to feed the millions of people who choose to live in the city instead of moving out to country to raise their own food, but rather choose to decry the very people who bring their food to them.

 

[neat62]

I agree. I’d much rather spear a hog to death. It’s not so bad. Just pierce it’s skin with the spear. Wait 20 minutes for it to die, carve it up and cook him. We can all do it! All 300 million of us can all load up our back yards with livestock and feed.

I can’t wait to pay $9.00 for a chicken or $7.00 a pound for ground beef.

Seriously, don’t we have other more serious issues to deal with?

 

[MooCowSteph]

Sure, all you have to do is raise your own animals and produce your own food.

Really? Because I feed my family mostly mean humanely raised on sustainable farms and I’ve never once killed an animal for food.

Modern farming systems emphasize totally sustainable agrigultural production techniques.
Concern should also be considered for those less fortunate, unwilling to be extravagant on meat procurement to feed their families. And the assertion that animals used in food production are sickly, diseased, and mistreated is not only unfounded, but totally false.

Really? If the animals are not sickly, then why are so many routinely fed a diet of antibiotics? Why do hogs regularly come down with repiratoy illnesses from breathing in their own feces? Having more animal waste than can be used on accompanying fields equals not sustainable.

I recently bought sustainably raised, humanely treated, largely organic, beef for $2 a pound directly from a farmer. I am not a wealthy person. Far from it. But since I think it’s important, I searched it out and actually got better food for my family than I would get at the grocery store.

Yes, why should they. Thankfully, this doesn’t happen in real life, let alone happen often. It is nothing more than propaganda thrown upon an ignorant city dwelling public.

What I’ve read certainly makes sense. The lines at the slaughterhouse move more quickly than ever before, with more animals being killed than ever before. The converors don’t stop, and animals are getting hung dead or alive.

So that they don’t peck each other to death.

Sorry, this would be better solved by giving them enough space so that they DON’T WANT TO PECK EACH OTHER TO DEATH!

We have become completely detached from our food source. We no longer see the cow in the roast or the chicken in the sandwhich, and our health and the animals’ well-being is affected by that.

Seriously, don’t we have other more serious issues to deal with?

If you don’t care about the issue than don’ read the thread.

 

[neat62]

MooCowSteph;4233292]

If you don’t care about the issue than don’ read the thread.

It’s just nice to know that everything is so honky dory that we worry about how our food prepared. Just when I thought this nation was in big trouble, I found out that everything is a okay. It’s a relief, thank you.

I don’t care about the issue, just don’t do anything that effects me, my life, or how much it costs me to eat. Thank you.

 

[Marquette]

For anyone interested in learning about factory farming and the slaughterhouse industries, check out books by John Robbins who WAS the Robbins in Baskin & Robbins ice cream.

 

[Newbie2]

Really? Because I feed my family mostly mean humanely raised on sustainable farms and I’ve never once killed an animal for food.

Someone else does the dirty work.

Really? If the animals are not sickly, then why are so many routinely fed a diet of antibiotics? Why do hogs regularly come down with repiratoy illnesses from breathing in their own feces?

Resistant strains of bacteria and othe organisms, like Mycoplasma, necessitate the need for antibiotics, which keep them healthy, not sickly. Sickly animals are rejected at slaughter. They do not breathe their own feces.

I recently bought sustainably raised, humanely treated, largely organic, beef for $2 a pound directly from a farmer. I am not a wealthy person. Far from it. But since I think it’s important, I searched it out and actually got better food for my family than I would get at the grocery store.

Good for you. Most urbanites do not have this option, and even if they did, there could not be enough of such farms available to meet the demand. Ergo, you wouldn’t be able to get it for two bucks a pound anymore if everyone wanted Farmer Jones’ beef.

What I’ve read certainly makes sense. The lines at the slaughterhouse move more quickly than ever before, with more animals being killed than ever before. The converors don’t stop, and animals are getting hung dead or alive.

Alive, yes, conscious, no. Except Kosher.

Sorry, this would be better solved by giving them enough space so that they DON’T WANT TO PECK EACH OTHER TO DEATH!

And the price would go up…

We have become completely detached from our food source. We no longer see the cow in the roast or the chicken in the sandwhich, and our health and the animals’ well-being is affected by that.

There we agree. I would be surprised if anyone in this discussion has ever been to a slaughterhouse or, besides the hunters, has ever butchered their own meat. I spent a summer trapsing through slaughterhouses on a research project as a veterinary student.

 

[MooCowSteph]

MooCowSteph;4233292]

It’s just nice to know that everything is so honky dory that we worry about how our food prepared. Just when I thought this nation was in big trouble, I found out that everything is a okay. It’s a relief, thank you.

I don’t care about the issue, just don’t do anything that effects me, my life, or how much it costs me to eat. Thank you.

Yeah, you’re right. We really should only worry about one or two issues at a time. We really can’t worry about the economy, abortion, and our families health and animals’ well-being at the same time.

I am all for the market regulating itself. But that’s not going to happen if people don’t care about the animals and the quality of the food they eat. We need to see what happens on these factory farms. We need to see what goes on in the slaughterhouses. Only then will people make decisions like we’ve made and buy humanely raised meat. And if you didn’t read my post, I paid $2 a pound. Can you get that at the super Wal-mart? Nope!

The USDA regulations and inspections do not work. They have a zero tolerance policy, which sounds nice, but zero zolerance doesn’t work. Anywhere. All that ends up happening is that their violations are swept under the rug. Not to mention the checklist focus on things like floor grates. A better solution is the one Temple Grandin is trying to implement on a widespead scale. grandin.com/

Many large slaughterhouses are switching to her methods, and even some fast food restaurants are favoring slaughterhouses who use her methods/checklists, proving that humane slaughter doesn’t have to cost more.