Factory Farming

[neat62]

MooCowSteph;4233521]

Yeah, you’re right. We really should only worry about one or two issues at a time. We really can’t worry about the economy, abortion, and our families health and animals’ well-being at the same time.

Your initial post only delt with the feelings of the animals. Now it’s our families health? Stun a cow or shoot it, the only difference is the “well being” of an animal?

I am all for the market regulating itself. But that’s not going to happen if people don’t care about the animals and the quality of the food they eat. We need to see what happens on these factory farms. We need to see what goes on in the slaughterhouses. Only then will people make decisions like we’ve made and buy humanely raised meat. And if you didn’t read my post, I paid $2 a pound. Can you get that at the super Wal-mart? Nope!

No, we don’t need to see how animals get slaughtered. It has nothing to do with feeding us. But yeah, the food should come out of those houses clean and disease free.

The USDA regulations and inspections do not work. They have a zero tolerance policy, which sounds nice, but zero zolerance doesn’t work. Anywhere. All that ends up happening is that their violations are swept under the rug. Not to mention the checklist focus on things like floor grates. A better solution is the one Temple Grandin is trying to implement on a widespead scale. grandin.com/

I think the are working pretty well. I’ve been eating food for 35 years and never been sick.

Many large slaughterhouses are switching to her methods, and even some fast food restaurants are favoring slaughterhouses who use her methods/checklists, proving that humane slaughter doesn’t have to cost more.

Whatever they do as long as it does not cost me more. I don’t care how my food feels before it is on my plate. It’s food.

 

[Newbie2]

Yeah, you’re right. We really should only worry about one or two issues at a time. We really can’t worry about the economy, abortion, and our families health and animals’ well-being at the same time.

I am all for the market regulating itself. But that’s not going to happen if people don’t care about the animals and the quality of the food they eat. We need to see what happens on these factory farms. We need to see what goes on in the slaughterhouses. Only then will people make decisions like we’ve made and buy humanely raised meat. And if you didn’t read my post, I paid $2 a pound. Can you get that at the super Wal-mart? Nope!

The USDA regulations and inspections do not work. They have a zero tolerance policy, which sounds nice, but zero zolerance doesn’t work. Anywhere. All that ends up happening is that their violations are swept under the rug. Not to mention the checklist focus on things like floor grates. A better solution is the one Temple Grandin is trying to implement on a widespead scale. grandin.com/

Many large slaughterhouses are switching to her methods, and even some fast food restaurants are favoring slaughterhouses who use her methods/checklists, proving that humane slaughter doesn’t have to cost more.

I beg to differ. Do you have any idea of the problems we would have without inspections? I agree that they aren’t perfect, but our food inspection system is the best in the world. Let’s not paint with too broad a brush.

I agree also that there is room for improvement, but what’s to say that if Grandin’s methods were to be applied industrywide, that there wouldn’t be the same types of violations in Grandin’s system as in the present one? It seems to me to be a matter of proper enforcement, instead of scrapping and redesigning the whole system.

BTW, have you ever seen your $2 a pound meat slaughtered by Farmer Jones? I don’t mean to be sarcastic, but what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[Calliso]

Really? Because I feed my family mostly mean humanely raised on sustainable farms and I’ve never once killed an animal for food.

Really? If the animals are not sickly, then why are so many routinely fed a diet of antibiotics? Why do hogs regularly come down with repiratoy illnesses from breathing in their own feces? Having more animal waste than can be used on accompanying fields equals not sustainable.

I recently bought sustainably raised, humanely treated, largely organic, beef for $2 a pound directly from a farmer. I am not a wealthy person. Far from it. But since I think it’s important, I searched it out and actually got better food for my family than I would get at the grocery store.

What I’ve read certainly makes sense. The lines at the slaughterhouse move more quickly than ever before, with more animals being killed than ever before. The converors don’t stop, and animals are getting hung dead or alive.

Sorry, this would be better solved by giving them enough space so that they DON’T WANT TO PECK EACH OTHER TO DEATH!

We have become completely detached from our food source. We no longer see the cow in the roast or the chicken in the sandwhich, and our health and the animals’ well-being is affected by that.

If you don’t care about the issue than don’ read the thread.

And you know you have to wonder just what sort of affect all those antibiotics and not to mention hormones that things such as dairy cows are given have on our health. And especially our childrens health.Not to mention pesticides which you have to wonder about too not only about our own health but what about the enviroment around us?

And really it;s also important to remember that you have to check out a source to make sure it;s ok too. I mean just because it says organic doesn;t mean humanely raised. Just because eggs say cage free doesn;t mean they still didn;t cram them into a barn so tight they can barely move.

And at the same time I can understand some people’s concern that they will have to pay more. But really I think part of the problem is that we expect to be able to eat cheap meat for everymeal just about every day. And the reality is…really maybe it wouldn;t be such a concern if we ate a lot less meat. But I think the problem is is it;s practically shoved down your throat that you should/must eat meat in the United States.

Also if your up for it I would recommend watching the movie earthlings. It was not made by PETA, and shows what sometimes goes on in not only slaughterhouses but in things like the fur industry too. video.google.com/videosearch?q=earthlings+full&emb=0&aq=0&oq=Earthling#
It is very graphic though I warn you. I donlt think I have ever been able to watch it all the way through my self. Though I need to it would be a good kick in the butt to finally going vegetarian for me.

Course I should add I myself ainlt perfect I still buy some of that cheap bad meat. Which really I admit I should stop. Personally I am working on eventually becoming a vegetarian and maybe though not too likely a vegan. I just need more will power. Though I have managed to cut most meat out of my diet and donlt eat near as much as I used too anymore.

I should also note though that I am not against the killing of animals for food or even for things like research. I understand that going vegan/ veggies is not possible for everyone. And that animal research has also helped human kind a lot too. Though alternatives should always and I believe usually are if possible.

 

[love4mary]

There is a very legitimate for putting many animals traveling to market in a small enclosure. It reduces movement which reduces the chance of injury by being jostled around.

We must be careful not to anthropomorphizing the animals. Instead, find out WHY they are being enclosed in a small area/crate pen first.

 

[MooCowSteph]

yes, I am concerned about farming and slaughtering practices, although my primary concern would be the farming practices and their effects on both my family, the envionment, and the animals themselves. I am amazed that you can say an animals life, hpow it’s treated, and how it’s killed has nothing to do with you. That “me, me, me” attitude is causing this country many problems. " I don’t care what you do as long as I get my cheap meat and lots of it". Did you know that processing plants can, according the USDA regulations, process 390 cows per minute? It’s when you move that quickly that feces comes in contact with the meat. The workers don’t have time to be careful. And you get e-coli. And the reason e-coli is in the feces of the animals to begin with is because they’re being fed a diet contrary to their needs - primarily grains that don’t allow the Ph balance of their stomachs to kill the e-coli bacteria. So they’re not always getting to the grocery disease-free and clean.

 

[MooCowSteph]

There is a very legitimate for putting many animals traveling to market in a small enclosure. It reduces movement which reduces the chance of injury by being jostled around.

We must be careful not to anthropomorphizing the animals. Instead, find out WHY they are being enclosed in a small area/crate pen first.

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. Yes, animals need to be confined to small quarters when traveling for their own safety. I was speaking about animals which spend their entire lives in very close quarters. Most egg laying chickens are kept up to 9 in a cage, 100,000 per building. Broiler chickens are often not caged, but still crammed so compactly in buildings that they have but a few inches to move.

 

[Calliso]

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. Yes, animals need to be confined to small quarters when traveling for their own safety. I was speaking about animals which spend their entire lives in very close quarters. Most egg laying chickens are kept up to 9 in a cage, 100,000 per building. Broiler chickens are often not caged, but still crammed so compactly in buildings that they have but a few inches to move.

Not to mention when traveling often animals are packed beyond necessary to the point where they are practically standing on top of each other if they are cows for instance. I am sure all this is in the name of getting more animals to the slaugther house at once rather then the animals not hurting each other.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

Haven’t read all of this but must respond to the cows being packed too close together.

Look, you aren’t in the business, you don’t know, your opinion is ignorant and uninformed.

Put a single cow in a 50 foot trailer, drive a hundred miles, and she’ll likely be dead, beat to death from not being able to stand up without other cows to lean against [and those other cows are leaning against the sides and partitions of the trailer].

Yep: partitions. Cattle trailers are separated into rooms inside just so the cattle don’t go flying from one end to the other every time the driver hits the brakes.

And this perfectly illustrates the problem: Ignorant people trying to correct those who actually have a clue.

 

[MooCowSteph]

Haven’t read all of this but must respond to the cows being packed too close together.

Look, you aren’t in the business, you don’t know, your opinion is ignorant and uninformed.

Put a single cow in a 50 foot trailer, drive a hundred miles, and she’ll likely be dead, beat to death from not being able to stand up without other cows to lean against [and those other cows are leaning against the sides and partitions of the trailer].

Yep: partitions. Cattle trailers are separated into rooms inside just so the cattle don’t go flying from one end to the other every time the driver hits the brakes.

And this perfectly illustrates the problem: Ignorant people trying to correct those who actually have a clue.

Ok, for a third time…I was talking about living quarters, not traveling quarters. :banghead:

 

[bankerdavid]

Yeah, you’re right. We really should only worry about one or two issues at a time. We really can’t worry about the economy, abortion, and our families health and animals’ well-being at the same time.

I am all for the market regulating itself. But that’s not going to happen if people don’t care about the animals and the quality of the food they eat. We need to see what happens on these factory farms. We need to see what goes on in the slaughterhouses. Only then will people make decisions like we’ve made and buy humanely raised meat. And if you didn’t read my post, I paid $2 a pound. Can you get that at the super Wal-mart? Nope!

The USDA regulations and inspections do not work. They have a zero tolerance policy, which sounds nice, but zero zolerance doesn’t work. Anywhere. All that ends up happening is that their violations are swept under the rug. Not to mention the checklist focus on things like floor grates. A better solution is the one Temple Grandin is trying to implement on a widespead scale. grandin.com/

Many large slaughterhouses are switching to her methods, and even some fast food restaurants are favoring slaughterhouses who use her methods/checklists, proving that humane slaughter doesn’t have to cost more.

When people start caring about the most innocent humans, the unborn and the elderly, they will start caring more about the environment, the way meat is produced, etc. The problem is, many people care more about animals than humans. Let’s balance the scale, folks. When the abortion laws were passed, the mantra was “Keep the government out of our wombs!” yet all they did was introduce more government exactly there, with Planned Parenthood, etc. The only way to keep government away from a process is to not allow them to pass laws regarding that process. I will vote no to this prop and hope that the industry will improve itself. I won’t mind paying a bit more for meat.

By the way, did you ever notice how much more ‘natural’ products cost? Or recycled?

 

[Calliso]

Ok, for a third time…I was talking about living quarters, not traveling quarters. :banghead:

He is probably refering to people like me who are pointing out that sometimes they are packed a bit too tight. I certainly donlt think that all situations are like that and I do understand that traveling conditions must be tight to a certain degree. Also I would say that just because someone works in the business doesn;t mean they know how EVERYONE works in the business. That would be like if I was an organic free range farmer who raised cows on pasture, let babies stay with their mommas as long as I could and slaughtered as humanely and painfree as I could and so on and then thought that everyone out there raised their animals the same way.

 

[bankerdavid]

And you know you have to wonder just what sort of affect all those antibiotics and not to mention hormones that things such as dairy cows are given have on our health. And especially our childrens health.Not to mention pesticides which you have to wonder about too not only about our own health but what about the enviroment around us?

Most of it is excreted when it’s no longer needed by the body.

And really it;s also important to remember that you have to check out a source to make sure it;s ok too. I mean just because it says organic doesn;t mean humanely raised. Just because eggs say cage free doesn;t mean they still didn;t cram them into a barn so tight they can barely move.

And at the same time I can understand some people’s concern that they will have to pay more. But really I think part of the problem is that we expect to be able to eat cheap meat for everymeal just about every day. And the reality is…really maybe it wouldn;t be such a concern if we ate a lot less meat. But I think the problem is is it;s practically shoved down your throat that you should/must eat meat in the United States.

I don’t care about ‘cheap’, but affordable.

Also if your up for it I would recommend watching the movie earthlings. It was not made by PETA, and shows what sometimes goes on in not only slaughterhouses but in things like the fur industry too. video.google.com/videosearch?q=earthlings+full&emb=0&aq=0&oq=Earthling#
It is very graphic though I warn you. I donlt think I have ever been able to watch it all the way through my self. Though I need to it would be a good kick in the butt to finally going vegetarian for me.

Course I should add I myself ainlt perfect I still buy some of that cheap bad meat. Which really I admit I should stop. Personally I am working on eventually becoming a vegetarian and maybe though not too likely a vegan. I just need more will power. Though I have managed to cut most meat out of my diet and donlt eat near as much as I used too anymore.

I should also note though that I am not against the killing of animals for food or even for things like research. I understand that going vegan/ veggies is not possible for everyone. And that animal research has also helped human kind a lot too. Though alternatives should always and I believe usually are if possible.

How about going back to the way the Indians farmed meat??? They commonly corralled a heard of buffalo and ran them over the cliff, or into a trap, or into a ravine, thereby killing the whole herd. Then the band slaugthered them (those that might have survived) cut them up, ate what they could, and left the rest to rot, or to the other animals. Oh, yeah, they made sausage and jerky out of some, but the items I’ve read show much less conservation than what is now professed. Yes, I know they used the hides for clothing and shelter, and the bones for tools…

Now, tell us why you should stop eating meat? It’s the most efficient source of protein for the body God gave us. Contains all the amino acids our bodies need to regenerate cell tissue? No, you shouldn’t stop. Cut back, maybe.

 

[Calliso]

Most of it is excreted when it’s no longer needed by the body.
I don’t care about ‘cheap’, but affordable.

How about going back to the way the Indians farmed meat??? They commonly corralled a heard of buffalo and ran them over the cliff, thereby killing the whole herd. Then the band slaugthered them (I mean cut them up), ate what they could, and left the rest to rot, or to the other animals. Oh, yeah, they made sausage and jerky out of some, but the items I’ve read show much less conservation than what is now professed.

Now, tell us why you should stop eating meat? It’s the most efficient source of protein for the body God gave us. Contains all the amino acids our bodies need to regenerate cell tissue? No, you shouldn’t stop. Cut back, maybe.

Oh I understand the affordable part. Though I think the expense is in large part due to the huge demand. Also I would say that no killing whole herds of animals isn;t the way to do things either.

As for me stopping eating meat. Well right now I can;t afford free range meat, and as far as I know Georgia doesn;t seem to have very many of those farms anyway and even if they did we donlt have one of those bunker freezers so we can;t do the buy half a cow thing or even a large section of it. But also health wise I think it would be better for me. I always feel or usually feel for that matter less healthy after eating meat especially red meat. And from all the reading I have done you can get all the amino acids and protein you need from plant sources. And really our need for it is pretty low…at least for your average person. Now if you are a body builder or something yeah you will need more but there are vegan body builders. Not to mention plant sources are usually healthier too! But really other then health humane concerns drive much of my reasons for wanting to go Vegetarian. I just need more will power…maybe I will go will myself to finish watching the Earthlings movie that was helping.

 

[Ruthie]

I live where cattle and poultry are raised.

All meat cattle that I have seen are raised on pasture, then most go to stockyards for a few weeks to be “finished” with grain. That means fattened up. We Americans like fatty beef. (Those that aren’t grain finished get sold as “grass fed beef.”)

Organic cattle also are raised on pastures. They do not get the antibiotics and growth hormones, so they are smaller, which means less $$ at sale time. Those that are grain finished are fed organic grain, which is more expensive. So organic beef is more expensive.

I’ve seen cattle in pasture and cattle in stockyards. Both seem happy to me. They are not smart, like wild animals. They are bred to be dumb.

Free range chicken is usually raised in a barn where there is access to a yard outside. Most of the chickens choose to stay inside. Even *truly *free-ranging chickens, by the way, will try to peck each other to death. Chickens are nasty. But tasty.

Organic vegetables take twice as much land to produce as non-organic ones. They are not hand-raised, but cultivated with the same old machinery that kills small animals, so they are not animal-friendly. Cultivation destroys the homes of birds, mice, and rabbits, among others. Anyone who thinks they are innocent of animal blood by being vegan is fooling him/herself.

I can (and do) respect vegetarians with convictions, but not the PeTA-philes. They have no concept of how much their so-called principles actually hurt animals - and people, too. Don’t get me started!

Ruthie, a *real *animal lover

 

[Calliso]

I live where cattle and poultry are raised.

All meat cattle that I have seen are raised on pasture, then most go to stockyards for a few weeks to be “finished” with grain. That means fattened up. We Americans like fatty beef. (Those that aren’t grain finished get sold as “grass fed beef.”)

Organic cattle also are raised on pastures. They do not get the antibiotics and growth hormones, so they are smaller, which means less $$ at sale time. Those that are grain finished are fed organic grain, which is more expensive. So organic beef is more expensive.

I’ve seen cattle in pasture and cattle in stockyards. Both seem happy to me. They are not smart, like wild animals. They are bred to be dumb.

Free range chicken is usually raised in a barn where there is access to a yard outside. Most of the chickens choose to stay inside. Even *truly *free-ranging chickens, by the way, will try to peck each other to death. Chickens are nasty. But tasty.

Organic vegetables take twice as much land to produce as non-organic ones. They are not hand-raised, but cultivated with the same old machinery that kills small animals, so they are not animal-friendly. Cultivation destroys the homes of birds, mice, and rabbits, among others. Anyone who thinks they are innocent of animal blood by being vegan is fooling him/herself.

I can (and do) respect vegetarians with convictions, but not the PeTA-philes. They have no concept of how much their so-called principles actually hurt animals - and people, too. Don’t get me started!

Ruthie, a *real *animal lover

Oh I think in general most vegans realize that yes there is no way to cause no suffering to any animal. One could say imo that any animal just by being alive and trying to survive will bring suffering to another.

As for the cattle being dumb if you mean in the sense of saying well they aren;t aware of anything other then this existance then you are right. But even a dumb animal can suffer. But yes cows are dumb. As for wild animals being smart I would say it depends on the wild animal some aren;t that “smart” at least not by human standards. There are some livestock animal(s) such as pigs that are probably “smarter” then many wild animals.

And from what I have heard it depends on the breed of chicken just how nasty they are. I do know that yes some breeds do tend to be very nasty and aggressive. One has to wonder if in our quests to create huger and huger birds we have prehaps also made nastier birds? Maybe maybe not just a thought.

But yes unfortunately free range and organic does equal expensive. The demand is just too high and the cost of producing it too high too.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

Ok, for a third time…I was talking about living quarters, not traveling quarters. :banghead:

Keep banging your head: I was responding to Calliso.

 

[mapleoak]

And if you didn’t read my post, I paid $2 a pound. Can you get that at the super Wal-mart? Nope!

Newbie2 had an excellent reply to this:

Most urbanites do not have this option, and even if they did, there could not be enough of such farms available to meet the demand. Ergo, you wouldn’t be able to get it for two bucks a pound anymore if everyone wanted Farmer Jones’ beef.

$2 a pound beef from farms with 2 cows named Bettie and Bossie is a privilege, not an economic reality.

The USDA regulations and inspections do not work.

They sure do work.

They have a zero tolerance policy, which sounds nice, but zero zolerance doesn’t work. Anywhere.

Yes it does.

All that ends up happening is that their violations are swept under the rug.

Nope, non-compliance equals licensed revoked. Take it from someone who actually works in the field.

Not to mention the checklist focus on things like floor grates.

One of many.

 

[mapleoak]

BTW, have you ever seen your $2 a pound meat slaughtered by Farmer Jones? I don’t mean to be sarcastic, but what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

I am willing to bet, it comes from a butcher shop all done under the table without any USDA inspections.

 

[mapleoak]

And you know you have to wonder just what sort of affect all those antibiotics and not to mention hormones that things such as dairy cows are given have on our health. And especially our childrens health.

Such as?

Not to mention pesticides which you have to wonder about too not only about our own health but what about the enviroment around us?

Name a pesticide that is found in food? And I don’t mean food coming farmer Jones down the road.

And really it;s also important to remember that you have to check out a source to make sure it;s ok too. I mean just because it says organic doesn;t mean humanely raised.

Exactly right. Animals can be abused just as easily on a two cow farm as easily as on a thousand cow farm. Organic is irrelevant.

Just because eggs say cage free doesn;t mean they still didn;t cram them into a barn so tight they can barely move.

Did you know stressed out chickens don’t lay eggs?

 

[mapleoak]

I am amazed that you can say an animals life, hpow it’s treated, and how it’s killed has nothing to do with you. That “me, me, me” attitude is causing this country many problems. " I don’t care what you do as long as I get my cheap meat and lots of it".

Who said this? We are stewards of God’s creatures and they are under our dominion. We owe them freedom from needless suffering.

Did you know that processing plants can, according the USDA regulations, process 390 cows per minute?

And this is wrong why?

It’s when you move that quickly that feces comes in contact with the meat.

This is totally false. Do you honestly believe the liberal spin that one person is doing all the work? Therefore the more animals being processed, the harder and faster that person has to work. Whew!, talk about a hard days work!

The workers don’t have time to be careful.

Sure they do, and it is required of them.

And you get e-coli.

No you don’t.

And the reason e-coli is in the feces of the animals to begin with is because they’re being fed a diet contrary to their needs - primarily grains that don’t allow the Ph balance of their stomachs to kill the e-coli bacteria.

Another example of liberal ignorance shoved upon unwitting haplings who believe whatever propoganda is thrown at them. Did you know E. coli is present in ALL warm blooded animals’ intestinal tracts?

So they’re not always getting to the grocery disease-free and clean.

Yes, shame it is not a perfect world. Farmer Jones’ meat in every supermarket would solve that problem. eh?