Failed Vocations & Heresy

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I’m currently exploring a vocation to religious life, and have met a few people who considered it and then left. One thing scares me though - almost all who travelled that route seem to have ended up less firm in their faith than they were before. A good friend of mine spent some time as a Cappuchin novice, and is now interested in alchemy, astrology and all kinds of other strange new-age things. Another colleague at work is an ex seminarian, and a liberation theologian. I recently got a private message in response to my post here about the Carthusians from a former Carthusian discerner who is now a sedevacantist!

First, I really want to know how to reach out to these people, but really don’t know how as they are clearly more experienced in their spiritual lives than me. What can I say?

Second, is it common for people who discerned they did not have a calling to priesthood or religious life to end up wandering away from the Church? If that’s the way things can end up, I’d rather not begin discerning, because I’m already fairly sure I won’t go the distance, and would rather be a faithful member of the ordinary laity than a super-spiritual heretic!
 
I’m currently exploring a vocation to religious life, and have met a few people who considered it and then left. One thing scares me though - almost all who travelled that route seem to have ended up less firm in their faith than they were before. A good friend of mine spent some time as a Cappuchin novice, and is now interested in alchemy, astrology and all kinds of other strange new-age things. Another colleague at work is an ex seminarian, and a liberation theologian. I recently got a private message in response to my post here about the Carthusians from a former Carthusian discerner who is now a sedevacantist!

First, I really want to know how to reach out to these people, but really don’t know how as they are clearly more experienced in their spiritual lives than me. What can I say?

Second, is it common for people who discerned they did not have a calling to priesthood or religious life to end up wandering away from the Church? If that’s the way things can end up, I’d rather not begin discerning, because I’m already fairly sure I won’t go the distance, and would rather be a faithful member of the ordinary laity than a super-spiritual heretic!
Like I said in the thread about the LC’s, people leave religious life for many different reasons. Often friends and family offer great amounts of support for young men and women who leave to follow a religious vocation. But, if that same person leaves the religious life, for whatever reason, there if often a great sense of guilt associated with it. The young person (or older person) can often feel like they let everyone down. Or, perhaps the life they decided to follow ended up not being as great as they once thought. I’d call this a reality check.

This applies to persons leaving most any kind of organization such as the military, university, medical school, a fraternity, even a relationship. A natural reaction to the guilt is to try and turn the table. “I’m glad I was asked to leave, they treated us horrible.” “I had to leave, I know what it’s really like inside and they keep it a secret.” “It was nothing like they said it would be.”

I know it seems like most people who abandon a religious vocation are less likely to remain faithful Catholics, but I think that’s only because these people are the most vocal. They’ll shout from the rooftops the injustices they suffered, whether real or not. But, an honest person who discerns that God wasn’t calling them to religious life and leaves on good terms is more likely to speak very highly of the life they left, if they’re ever asked.

So, back to your question. How can we reach those people who harbor ill will towards a religion they once embraced? I really don’t know. Pride often comes into play here. They can throw their personal experience in your face and unless you have a really good rebuttal, they won’t listen to a word you say. I would pray for God to soften their hearts and simply let them know that God still loves them.
 
Second, is it common for people who discerned they did not have a calling to priesthood or religious life to end up wandering away from the Church? If that’s the way things can end up, I’d rather not begin discerning, because I’m already fairly sure I won’t go the distance, and would rather be a faithful member of the ordinary laity than a super-spiritual heretic!
I too have seen what you describe, also among SOME lay people who join secular orders, charismatic movement etc.

I think this has more to do with a certain personality type than the discernment process per se, someone we might call a “seeker”. this is the person who is always looking for the next best thing, for whom every new interest (spiritual, relationship, or otherwise) becomes an all-consuming enthusiasm bordering on passion to the exclusion of all else.

This is the person who when they adopt you for a friend want your exclusive attention, spend all their time with you, do everything for you, then drop you cold when they find a new friend in need.

this is the person, and we see them all the time in RCIA, who tries on new religions like new fall fashions. From being a devout whatever in childhood, move rapidly in their teen and young adult years through hare krishna, mennonite, serving with Mother Teresa’s mission, pentecostal, episcopalian, Jews for Jesus, and their flirtation with the Catholic faith is just another stop on the trolley. When they were buddhist they wanted to be monks in Japan. When they were pentecostals they wanted their own deliverance minstry. When they were Catholics they were convinced they had a religious vocation, and so forth.

They are attracted, I have come to believe, by listening to their stories, by all that is superficial in various spiritualities, religious expressions, people, ways of life, and never come to any deeper realization of the need for surrender to Christ and are out of touch with their deepest selves. Possibly they are unable for psychological or other reasons, at least at this stage of life, to go any deeper.

Fr. Groeschel speaks of this type of personality in some of his writing, particulary those books that deal with the psychological aspects of the spiritual life.

They like the idea of living in a cloister, praying all the time, incense, wearing a habit and sandals, eating vegetarian, but are completely unable to embrace or even value the obedience and humility, work and service to others that is the hallmark of the monastic vocation. They like the drama of charismatic worship, the simple emotional songs, the dramatic manifestations like tongues and falling, hope to be healers and be recognized as such. They are completely unfamiliar with and resistant to Paul’s classic teaching on the charismatic gifts, and have no interest in building up the church being wholly consumed by their own “spirituality”.

this is the person who simply cannot pray in any way except the fad of the moment. If you are quietly praying your rosary, or if there is a group in church praying liturgy of the hours, they find it highly disturbing because “I am into contemplative prayer” (yes I have actually heard this) and everyone should clear out so they can have silence. If they come to the chapel where the sign asks for Silence, they MUST play their CD of spiritual music because they can’t pray without it. If they have discovered the liturgy of the hours, their breviary must be the best, and they are more concerned with the cover being real leather and saying the offices spot on time than with the content of the prayer itself. They hear the rhythm but never the words of the psalms.

Please pray for them truly I don’t know the answer.
 
I’m currently exploring a vocation to religious life, and have met a few people who considered it and then left. One thing scares me though - almost all who travelled that route seem to have ended up less firm in their faith than they were before. A good friend of mine spent some time as a Cappuchin novice, and is now interested in alchemy, astrology and all kinds of other strange new-age things. Another colleague at work is an ex seminarian, and a liberation theologian. I recently got a private message in response to my post here about the Carthusians from a former Carthusian discerner who is now a sedevacantist!

First, I really want to know how to reach out to these people, but really don’t know how as they are clearly more experienced in their spiritual lives than me. What can I say?

Second, is it common for people who discerned they did not have a calling to priesthood or religious life to end up wandering away from the Church? If that’s the way things can end up, I’d rather not begin discerning, because I’m already fairly sure I won’t go the distance, and would rather be a faithful member of the ordinary laity than a super-spiritual heretic!
You can’t say much, but the Holy Ghost can speak volumes to them.

First and foremost, offer Christ’s Passion and Our Lady’s Sorrows for them. Secondly, offer a day of reparation for them. Thirdly, offer their “heresy” for their conversion.

If you do each of these three times, you’ve made a novena of reparation for conversion.

We have a yahoo group for ex-nuns, which actually started for those of us who had to leave the monastic life for the world for whatever reason. (I had been slated for entrance after a vocation retreat, but family needed me). I have found that the women get rid of their anger in different ways than men do.

Men read in headlines; women read in details. Men are hunters-gatherers; women keep the homefires burning and care for the children. See what I mean? What you’re receiving is their form of stress relief. They all need prayers for conversion.

Not a lot of help, but what came to me, considering the experience I’ve had with it.

Blessings,
Cloisters
 
I entered monastic life twice, once in my teens another time in my mid forties. I was conscious of being called since I was 7yrs. old. Both times I left knowing that I was being called but to where I had no idea. I certainly did not leave disillusioned in anyway, except with the monastic life itself as I had experienced it, although if I had taken onboard what was said to me when I decided that I wanted to leave (both times), undoubtedly I would have been in a crisis of some kind. But my consciousness was distinctly “not here” or not being called to that life the way it was lived and with the attitudes that prevailed, and yet I felt called.

I was never actually concerned or bothered about others opinions of me, certainly not in monastic life either - well not overly concerned at all anyway. My focus and concern was The Lord and “What are you asking of me?”

When I stopped searching and trying to define and realize my vocation and said “show me please, or I am surely lost”…a lifestyle unfolded in my path. I made private vows under direction.

In a nutshell.

I have often wondered why women who felt they had a religious vocation did not decide to pursue it say under private vows. Certainly most all ‘ex nuns and religious’ (I have not known many at all though) I have known are bitter people. My own conclusion has been that they persevered in a life that was not their vocation, not their call, and that in that persevering against ‘the grain’ as it were, they became bitter and embittered, angry, and have remained so and not resolved their issues. Other than that, I have no idea.

Barb:)
 
I have found that the women get rid of their anger in different ways than men do.
I’d be interested in learning more about this. Can you speak a bit further and specifically as to how it is so?
 
A former seminarian friend of mine once postulated that it seems that those who were once in such serious discernment but left (for whatever reasons) tend to go to one of two extremes. Either they are very devout and heavily involved in the life of the Church or they rebel and find their own direction. There doesn’t appear to be a lot of in between. I think that there is some truth in this observation.

The only thing I can say is that we should recognize how discernment is essentially entering into a relationship. If one does such sincerely and seriously, then there are certainly a lot of personal and intimate experiences knotted up with it all. But, just as dating doesn’t always lead to marriage, there can be rough times in the relationship and it may even end in breakup. Which may leave one wounded.

Reaching a person in such a situation ain’t easy. Most often, others around them really do not understand or appreciate what they’ve been through. So it’s potentially a lonely life. Who to talk with? Who can console? And the direction in which one who was frustrated or angry finds outlet may be something that they cling to as their strength in life. Challenge such a perspective and they’re likely to get defensive as it touches upon their very soul.

Perhaps the best thing to do is simply to listen, understand as best as possible, acknowledge the value of what they have which is good without making them feel looked down upon for what you feel they don’t do right. Maybe they’ll come to respect you in time and be willing to appreciate in turn what makes you tick such that they could discover something deeper and meaningful in union with Christ’s Church again.

Faith is a journey. Those who have been in discernment have walked a unique path. Wherever they are at present is somehow part of that way in finding their life in Christ.
 
There have been some excellent answers.

I would also add that many people who have “left” discernment may not have left at all but were asked to leave or kicked out, for any number of reasons. These people will often be bitter, and lash out at the Church, or just become disillusioned due to their own failure (perceived or real).

The order or diocese is never allowed to say why someone left, so these people’s stories can never be contradicted.

God Bless
 
It also must be noted that when someone is asked to leave (or simply let go and not passed onto further studies or progress) transition out of the lifestyle and community isn’t always easy or positively assisted. And this, too, can make things all the more stressful for the person in moving on with life in the secular world. If the shock or frustration of exiting, itself, isn’t enough then this may only exacerbate issues and inflame any difficulty which already stands.
 
It also must be noted that when someone is asked to leave (or simply let go and not passed onto further studies or progress) transition out of the lifestyle and community isn’t always easy or positively assisted. And this, too, can make things all the more stressful for the person in moving on with life in the secular world. If the shock or frustration of exiting, itself, isn’t enough then this may only exacerbate issues and inflame any difficulty which already stands.
A good observation! Probably especially if one has been living religious or monastic life for a time and is then asked in some way to leave, I dont think compassion and understanding, fraternal charity, for that person ceases at their point of departure and an offer to help in any way possible for them to adjust should be extended.
 
I am sorry about this but something about the title of this thread is really bothering me.

Can someone please tell me what a “failed vocation” is.

Just because someone leaves formation/religious life does not mean that they failed.
 
I’m currently exploring a vocation to religious life, and have met a few people who considered it and then left. One thing scares me though - almost all who travelled that route seem to have ended up less firm in their faith than they were before. A good friend of mine spent some time as a Cappuchin novice, and is now interested in alchemy, astrology and all kinds of other strange new-age things. Another colleague at work is an ex seminarian, and a liberation theologian. I recently got a private message in response to my post here about the Carthusians from a former Carthusian discerner who is now a sedevacantist!

First, I really want to know how to reach out to these people, but really don’t know how as they are clearly more experienced in their spiritual lives than me. What can I say?

Second, is it common for people who discerned they did not have a calling to priesthood or religious life to end up wandering away from the Church? If that’s the way things can end up, I’d rather not begin discerning, because I’m already fairly sure I won’t go the distance, and would rather be a faithful member of the ordinary laity than a super-spiritual heretic!
First, why would you consider someone leaving a seminary or religious order “failed” their vocation? Everyone has a vocation - whether you are a lay person or a religious person. If one is leaving a seminary, it could be the fact that it is not God’s call for him to be there.

How he ended up in his faith journey is not always the direct result of him leaving the seminary. There is a danger when one is not following God’s will or God’s call for him. Nonetheless, even when one makes a mistake in his life, God gives him another option to help him back to the right track.

We all have to be faithful to God. We all have to discern God’s will for us. You can be a heritic as a lay person too.
 
Sorry about the title. I only used that term because it’s the kind of thing that’s commonly said by lay people in the Church. Should really have put it in ‘speech marks’. I agree that the term itself is probably not helpful to those who are going through such difficulties.
 
Sorry about the title. I only used that term because it’s the kind of thing that’s commonly said by lay people in the Church. Should really have put it in ‘speech marks’. I agree that the term itself is probably not helpful to those who are going through such difficulties.
Really the term is not helpful for anyone.

When we hear people use it we should correct them.

Even a person who leaves religious life after having made final vows or a man who leaves the priesthood is not a “failed vocation”, that is if they have gone though the proper discernment.
 
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