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DeFide
Guest
Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like more Protestants are rejecting the idea of being saved by “faith alone” (a.k.a. “sola fide”). Has anyone else noticed this?
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David_Paul
Guest
Of course. Your church is doing what it should: spread the faith.
I surf into EWTN and think I’m watching a Baptist sometimes.
Good.
Catholics should not be shy.
I surf into EWTN and think I’m watching a Baptist sometimes.
Good.
Catholics should not be shy.
L
livingtashlikh
Guest
I don’t see that much of a widespread change. Although, when I bring it up, many Protestants confess at least a little doubt in “faith alone”.
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DeFide
Guest
You just totally lost me on this post.
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David_Paul
Guest
Well…I guess that is good in an off-handed way.
I’m not Catholic as you can see from a search of my posts.
But I accept the Magisterium in everything of importance.
A few issues which are political, I disagree with. But they are not set in stone. I could live with them all very well.
It is the essence of your church I cannot in good faith say I believe without doubt (I’ve read the catechism on this).
I am not of the Protestant faiths which believe Catholics are in error.
Don’t know what to say beyond this except I would like to be in communion. I would like to take the Eucharist.
Guess I need your prayers.
Not up to us, is it?
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Della
Guest
I’d like to talk about your reservations with you, but I don’t want to derail this thread. So, if you’d like to talk about it–just reading the Catechism, as good as it is doesn’t always help–start another topic thread, if your topic hasn’t been discussed by you before, and I’ll gladly join in as a convert who wrestled with several of the Church’s teachings.
And I will certainly pray for you, please pray for me, too!Now, about the topic here–I think a good many Protestants whose denom or sect preaches sola fide are beginning to see the fallacy of that position. They are backpeddling on it, but still won’t use the term “good works” because they think Paul taught against them when he did no such thing. They want to say that one has to live the life of Christ or not backslide and other such terms they feel comfortable with, but it’s really the same thing as we Catholics believe, if a bit watered down and renamed.
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mattb2jp
Guest
Faith alone and scripture alone are clearly declining among mainline protestants. Unfortunately, it is not likely to lead many of them to the Catholic Faith. Most mainline denominations have large numbers of ministers and members who believe in only a very vague sort of Christianity.
In the United Church of Christ, which loves to claim it teaches tolerance, there is no tolerance for anyone who sticks to historical Christianity. I know several families who finally gave up after their minister, with the tacit approval of the rest of the congregation, began preaching gay marraige and all the other “p.c.” views he could think of every Sunday.
In the United Church of Christ, which loves to claim it teaches tolerance, there is no tolerance for anyone who sticks to historical Christianity. I know several families who finally gave up after their minister, with the tacit approval of the rest of the congregation, began preaching gay marraige and all the other “p.c.” views he could think of every Sunday.
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David_Paul
Guest
Well, I tried.
Sheesh.
It is not a them vs us mentality.
You want to talk about the Catholics who aided and adetted communists in the Soviet Union?
I got the data. Personal stuff.
Sheesh.
It is not a them vs us mentality.
You want to talk about the Catholics who aided and adetted communists in the Soviet Union?
I got the data. Personal stuff.
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DavidFilmer
Guest
People will always graviate towards preachers who say what they want to hear. Of course “Faith Alone” is popular! And, in this day and age, such doctrine will prosper.
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Zooey
Guest
I think that we are saying “grace alone” more. (That was always, IMHO, what it meant, anyway…)
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scylla
Guest
It seems that Faith Alone with Protestants is being better understood as it could be almost the same as Catholic dogma, if faith alone is meant in a way that means everything is by God’s grace that gives us faith which is needed to accomplish anything such as works or love, this is pretty much believing in what the Church teaches and calling it Faith Alone. If it excludes anything and makes it Faith Alone emphasis on alone then it is completely contrary to Catholic belief and I believe that approach is dying.
mindspring.com/~jdarcy/files/justify.htm
Here is a debate on this which illustrates both sides and this is what I hear often from the Protestant reformed point of view…
“by faith alone but it is by a faith that is not alone. It is by a faith that is always accompanied by good works.”
Which I feel makes faith alone a statement that can be very misleading, but a little useful if it accomplishes the proper emphasis.
I also feel things like the joint declaration of faith are helping reach some unity, and clarity.
God Bless
Scylla
P.S.
I am just starting to study Justification so look into it, I could be wrong on some details.
mindspring.com/~jdarcy/files/justify.htm
Here is a debate on this which illustrates both sides and this is what I hear often from the Protestant reformed point of view…
“by faith alone but it is by a faith that is not alone. It is by a faith that is always accompanied by good works.”
Which I feel makes faith alone a statement that can be very misleading, but a little useful if it accomplishes the proper emphasis.
I also feel things like the joint declaration of faith are helping reach some unity, and clarity.
God Bless
Scylla
P.S.
I am just starting to study Justification so look into it, I could be wrong on some details.
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TheGarg
Guest
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your post. I am a devout member of the Catholic Church, and I can take the Eucharist daily if I want[given I am in the right state], and I should not take that privilege lightly.
I pray that your path leads you to the Eucharist, for it is Christ Himself.
J
jax8686
Guest
i like this line:
“YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR FAITH ALONE but you cannot be saved witohout works…”
“YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR FAITH ALONE but you cannot be saved witohout works…”
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slinky1882
Guest
I’d have to say overall about the same, but I have noticed in some circles gravitation to Grace alone as pressures on Christians intensify and the idea of once saved, always saved based off of Faith is untenable to the non-Christians. Grace alone is mindboggling and mysterious, but in certain senses, non-Christians can see the idea better looking at sins. Thanks and God Bless.
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David_Paul
Guest
Thank you so much. I could say…“oh well”…I’ll just do it because I think it is right". I have no social or other pressure on me to do it. None the other way either. I was raised a liberal Prot. Sorta mentioned it here and there . Everyone thinks it great I’m interested.
Well…almost all. My sis’s husband, who left his Catholic faith 3 decades ago wonders what I see in it…lol
He’s an AFR pilot. Hard nosed guy. But has always thought I could beat him in any debate…well…not in what you have to do when one engine goes out and ack-ack shot off your left wing on your C-5 but maybe in this one.
Your church may get a two-fer in us.
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TheGarg
Guest
Bless you friend. I admire your disposition.
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Philthy
Guest
Hard to stand firm on this opinion since Grace alone and Faith alone are EACH a separate category of the 5 solas of the reformation…
Phil
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Philthy
Guest
Here David - let me explain your statement so that others can undersand what you were trying to say - you haven’t articulated your point yet.
Of course. Your church is doing what it should: spread the faith.
Translation: Yes David agrees that sola fide is in decline - he believes this because the Catholic Church is doing its job of spreading the true Faith in opposition to sola fide.
I surf into EWTN and think I’m watching a Baptist sometimes.
Good.
Translation: David watches EWTN and the Catholics he sees there remind him of Baptists in the sense of their evangelical inclinations. They are proclaiming there faith boldly like Baptists he has seen, and he approves of this “new” Catholic evangelism.
David_Paul:
How’d I do David?
Phil
Of course. Your church is doing what it should: spread the faith.
Translation: Yes David agrees that sola fide is in decline - he believes this because the Catholic Church is doing its job of spreading the true Faith in opposition to sola fide.
I surf into EWTN and think I’m watching a Baptist sometimes.
Good.
Translation: David watches EWTN and the Catholics he sees there remind him of Baptists in the sense of their evangelical inclinations. They are proclaiming there faith boldly like Baptists he has seen, and he approves of this “new” Catholic evangelism.
Translation: David correctly implies that Catholics of the recent past have been “shy” in sharing their faith with others - especially the lay people. There is no reason for this - Catholics should boldly proclaim their faith to others like, for instance, his Baptist acquaintances.
How’d I do David?
Phil
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Wildgraywolf
Guest
I think so, but getting them to admit it is impossibly frustrating. I had a “faith alone” debate with a buddy from work. It wasn’t long before I realized we were say the same thing. He was just as surprised as I was. Anyway, in his case the difference boiled down to terminology. Ironically, his belief is very Catholic but will only use the term “faith alone”, but really meaning “faith and works”. I asked him; “Why not call it what it is: faith and works”, because that’s what you mean.", he replies, “because it’s faith alone”.
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Sooner4Christ
Guest
What exactly are the 5 solas?
Sola Scriptura
Sola Fide
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