Faith Alone, Equivalent to Nothing?

[Isaiah45_9]

I agree that faith without deeds is dead. It is not a dead faith that justifies but a real, living faith. Repentance and holy living accompany it rather than exist apart from it. As one of the authors quoted by jrtrent said, “you can’t do one without doing the other.”

[bibledrb]James 1:8[/bibledrb]

If you can’t have one without the other, which by the way is the Catholic position, then why do you insist on separating them?

We receive both (Faith and Good Works) from the Grace of God. Why should we separate that which God has united?

 

[ltwin]

It is not OUR work. It is God who is working in us. He gives us the grace to do good works and therefore we are justified by those works that he gives us the grace to do. That is why James can say we are justified by works and not by faith alone. It is all God’s grace.

Yes, it is all God’s grace, which comes to us through faith and faith alone.

Isn’t confessing your sins a “work?” You may say that confessing sins is a fruit of your faith and I agree but isn’t it a necessary fruit in order to be justified?

It’s necessary in the sense that faith is necessary and faith without repentance is empty, so empty faith cannot justify. So, yes its necessary as part of faith. Faith Alone does not negate the necessity of repentance.

It is through faith that we receive the grace to repent. That is what is meant by Faith Alone. There could be no repentance without first being faith.

When did you receive this justifying grace?

When I heard the Word of God’s proclamation of both law and grace. I realized that I had both broken God’s law and needed His grace. I was convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit and led to repent. In my case, this happened in church when I was about 10 years old. That was my initial repentance.

So, I was justified when I placed my faith in Christ and received His grace. Now, I stand before God righteous if I continue to put my faith in Christ. Now, sanctification is an ongoing process whereby we are inwardly transformed into the image of Christ, and that is a process that continues our entire lives. I explain this in more detail in post number 2.

Are they your “own” works or are they works prompted and accomplished by grace?

Makes no difference. If they are my own work then they cannot reach the glory of God anyway. They cannot atone for my sins.

If they are works prompted and accomplished by grace then the grace that prompts and accomplishes is transmitted by faith.

Just curious. What happens if you backslide into the sin of adultery or fornication. Will faith alone save you?

If you backslide into sin of any kind and fail to truly confess and repent then you do not have faith. You have lost your faith, turned your back on God, and rejected His grace. If that is the case, unless you repent, you have no hope of salvation. Everything we have from Christ comes by faith.

I agree with you that saving faith does not exist without repentance and holiness. I just don’t understand why you can’t say we are justified by faith and by works when both are gifts of grace?

Because grace is only possible through faith. Grace through works is not possible unless faith is present. Faith is the instrument God uses for us to receive grace, whether it be in repentance, prayer, feeding the hungry, etc.

I just don’t see why you cannot bring yourself to agree with James who clearly states we are justified by works and not by faith alone. James is not talking about “natural” works but “supernatural” works of grace.

It’s clear to me from the context of that entire passage that James is clearly saying that faith without works is a dead faith, i.e. its not anything but lip service. People who have faith will do righteous deeds. This passage for me does not contradict with Faith Alone.

 

[JonNC]

Baptism Explained, Please Read

Membership
Baptism enters you into membership with the body of Christ, which is the Church. It is the new rite of initiation that replaces the old rite of circumcision → (Luke 2:21-23).
**
The Church is the Body of Christ**
Ephesians 1:20-23
22 And he (God, The Father) put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head (Jesus Christ) over all things to** the church, 23 which is his body**, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.

Colossians 1:18
18 He (Jesus Christ) is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he himself might be preeminent.

Rite of Baptism (Membership)
1 Cor. 12:12-13
12 As a body is one though it has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though many, are one body, so also Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the Church), whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free persons, and we were all given to drink of one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27-28
27** For all of you who were baptized into Christ** have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:3-7
3** Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?** 4 We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life. 5 For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin. 7 For a dead person has been** absolved from sin.
**
Baptism the New Creation
(Notice the underlined verse above in Romans 6:6 and compare it to the underlined verse below)

Galatians 6:14-15
14 But may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither does circumcision (Circumcision of the Old Rite) mean anything, nor does uncircumcision (of the Old Rite), but only a **New Creation (Baptism).
**
2nd Corinthians 5
16 Consequently, from now on we regard no one according to the flesh; even if we once knew Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him so no longer. 17 So whoever is in Christ is a new creation: the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.

Replacement of the Old Rite with Baptism
Colossian 2:11-12
11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ. 12 You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

Baptism necessary for Salvation (To be Saved)
1 Peter 3:20-21
20 who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. (<- Typology) 21 This prefigured **baptism, which saves you now. **It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, (<- Seriously, serious) I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit (Baptism).

**
Baptism necessary for Salvation (Continued……)**
Acts 22:16
16 Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.’
**
Baptism gifts you the Holy Spirit (commonly know as Regeneration)**
Acts 2:38-39
38 Peter (said) to them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is made to you and to your children (Infant Baptism) and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call.”

John 1:32-33
32 John testified further, saying, "I saw the Spirit come down like a dove from the sky and remain upon him. 33 I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’

Matthew 3:16
16 After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the (Holy) Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him.

Galatians 3:27-28
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Titus 3:5
5 not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, **he saved us through the bath of rebirth (Baptism) and renewal (Regeneration) by the Holy Spirit,
**

Sorry for truncating.

Amen. What does this have to do with sola fide? They certainly aren’t oppositional to each other.

Jon

 

[ltwin]

A complete misunderstanding of the use of the term “sola”. Each sola has to do with an exclusion of anything else in regards the particular term is qualifies. For example, there is no other way that we come to salvation other than grace. Without grace, there is no faith, no justification, no sanctification, no salvation. Therefore, by grace alone.
The sola in sola fide is an exclusion of any other means by which we access justification, not by works of the law, not by our own merit, not by our own actions. Therefore, we are justified by Grace alone through faith alone.
The sola in sola Christus is the recognition that the actions and person of the God-man, Jesus Christ, are the only thing that makes salvation possible. It is the suffering, death and ressurection of our Savior only that makes salvation possible.
The solas do not exclude each other because they do not refer to each other.

Jon

You said what I was trying to say in more precise language!

 

[JonNC]

So confessing your sins and repenting, that is, turning to God is not part of justification? You can be justified without confessing or repenting?

You can loose justifying faith by not doing these things, certainly, but we believe that justification (what Catholics often call initial justification) is by grace through faith. We would say that this is part of sanctification, our growth in grace.

Jon

 

[jrtrent]

Berkhof gives a bit of history to the Catholic teaching of merit by our works:

The confounding of justification and sanctification continued into the Middle Ages and gradually acquired a more positive and doctrinal aspect. According to the prevailing teachings of the Scholastics, justification includes two elements: man’s sins are forgiven, and he is made just or righteous. There was a difference of opinion as to the logical order of these two element, some reversing the order just indicated. This was also done by Thoms Aquinas, and his view became the prevalent one in the Roman Catholic Church. Grace is infused in man, whereby he is made just, and partly on the basis of this infused grace, his sins are pardoned. This was already an approach to the evil doctrine of merit, which was gradually developed in the Middle Ages in connection with the doctrine of justification. The idea found favour increasingly that man is justified in part on the basis of his own good works. (Systematic Theology, pg. 512

By the time of the reformation, good works appear to have been lauded as almost the sole basis of justification, and faith was not given much attention. The Augsburg Confession notes that the Catholic church began to emphasize faith as well as works, and that this was an improvement over what had been taught previously:

Article XX: Of Good Works.

1] Our teachers are falsely accused of forbidding Good Works. 2] For their published writings on the Ten Commandments, and others of like import, bear witness that they have taught to good purpose concerning all estates and duties of life, as to what estates of life and what works in every calling be pleasing to God. 3] Concerning these things preachers heretofore taught but little, and urged only childish and needless works, as particular holy-days, particular fasts, brotherhoods, pilgrimages, services in honor of saints, the use of rosaries, monasticism, and such like. 4] Since our adversaries have been admonished of these things, they are now unlearning them, and do not preach these unprofitable works as heretofore. 5] Besides, they begin to mention faith, of which there was heretofore marvelous silence. 6] They teach that we are justified not by works only, but they conjoin faith and works, and say that we are justified by faith and works. 7] This doctrine is more tolerable than the former one, and can afford more consolation than their old doctrine.

The doctrine of justification by faith became a point of emphasis not only because it was Biblical, but because it had “lain so long unknown, as all must needs grant that there was the deepest silence in their sermons concerning the righteousness of faith, while only the doctrine of works was treated in the churches.” Because of that, the churches adhering to Lutheran principles were instructed to emphasize that doctrine:

9] First, that our works cannot reconcile God or merit forgiveness of sins, grace, and justification, but that we obtain this only by faith when we believe that we are received into favor for Christ’s sake, who alone has been set forth the Mediator and Propitiation, 1 Tim. 2:5, in order that the Father may be reconciled through Him. 10] Whoever, therefore, trusts that by works he merits grace, despises the merit and grace of Christ, and seeks a way to God without Christ, by human strength, although Christ has said of Himself: I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. John 14:6.

11] This doctrine concerning faith is everywhere treated by Paul, Eph. 2:8: By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of your selves; it is the gift of God, not of works, etc.

This same chapter, however, goes on to say that this does not mean that good works are not needed:

27] Furthermore, it is taught on our part that it is necessary to do good works, not that we should trust to merit grace by them, but because it is the will of God. 28] It is only by faith that forgiveness of sins is apprehended, and that, for nothing. 29] And because through faith the Holy Ghost is received, hearts are renewed and endowed with new affections, so as to be able to bring forth good works.

 

[Third_Day]

=ltwin;10429339]Yes, it is all God’s grace, which comes to us through faith and faith alone.

You seem to be agreeing that our works are also from God’s grace.I don’t see why you can’t say we are justified by works and by faith when they are both gifts of grace.

It’s necessary in the sense that faith is necessary and faith without repentance is empty, so empty faith cannot justify. So, yes its necessary as part of faith. Faith Alone does not negate the necessity of repentance.

Seems to me you are just playing word games. If repentance is necessary for faith to be a saving faith then faith cannot be alone. Why not just join Catholics and say we are justified by faith and works since true saving faith must have works?

It is through faith that we receive the grace to repent. That is what is meant by Faith Alone. There could be no repentance without first being faith.

I don’t see how the Catholic Church teaches anything contrary to that. Without faith it is impossible to please God but why insist on saying faith “alone?” Why not say with Paul that we are justified by faith which includes repentance, obedience, love of God.

When I heard the Word of God’s proclamation of both law and grace. I realized that I had both broken God’s law and needed His grace. I was convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit and led to repent. In my case, this happened in church when I was about 10 years old. That was my initial repentance.

But you weren’t yet justified. God’s grace was simply moving you towards justification. According to scripture you were sanctified and justified in baptism.

So, I was justified when I placed my faith in Christ and received His grace.

No. You were not yet justified. You were being moved by God’s grace to be justified. Your soul was still infected with original sin.

Now, I stand before God righteous if I continue to put my faith in Christ. Now, sanctification is an ongoing process whereby we are inwardly transformed into the image of Christ, and that is a process that continues our entire lives. I explain this in more detail in post number 2.

IF you continue. So you don’t believe in eternal security?
Sanctification is a process but justification is also a process.

Makes no difference. If they are my own work then they cannot reach the glory of God anyway. They cannot atone for my sins.

It does make a difference.

If they are works prompted and accomplished by grace then the grace that prompts and accomplishes is transmitted by faith.

Once in the state of sanctifying grace our works are prompted and accomplished by grace and we are justified by them in the eyes of God. That is why James says we are justified by our works and not just by our faith.

If you backslide into sin of any kind and fail to truly confess and repent then you do not have faith.

Again you add confessing and repenting as necessary for justification. Why not agree with Catholics that we are justified by faith and works like confessing and repenting?

You have lost your faith, turned your back on God, and rejected His grace.

Agree and that faith could have been a true saving faith but you lost it by rejecting God’s grace.

If that is the case, unless you repent, you have no hope of salvation. Everything we have from Christ comes by faith.

Why not say faith and works? They are both gifts of grace.

Because grace is only possible through faith. Grace through works is not possible unless faith is present. Faith is the instrument God uses for us to receive grace, whether it be in repentance, prayer, feeding the hungry, etc.

Very Catholic

It’s clear to me from the context of that entire passage that James is clearly saying that faith without works is a dead faith, i.e. its not anything but lip service. People who have faith will do righteous deeds. This passage for me does not contradict with Faith Alone.

James says we are NOT justified by faith alone. Our works also justify us. Again I don’t see why you cannot come to the Catholic side and say we are justified by faith and works. Is James saying we are justified by works before men?

 

[Third_Day]

You can loose justifying faith by not doing these things, certainly, but we believe that justification (what Catholics often call initial justification) is by grace through faith. We would say that this is part of sanctification, our growth in grace.

Jon

Do you, as a Lutheran, believe we are sanctified and justified in baptism?

 

[Publisher]

I agree that we can do nothing apart from God (Jesus Christ). That is why we must co-operate with God and his free gift of salvation through our own actions and obedience. (Repentance, Good Work, Charity, Sacraments, Baptism (Physical Water, In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).

Catholics place their Faith in Jesus Christ and all the Religious teachings that Jesus Christ left us, including the Sacraments. There is no division of Faith between Jesus and the sacraments but a Unity.

What does it mean to baptize in his spirit? No sacraments are necessary? What about the Sacraments that Jesus established… Completely irrelevant I suppose?

Anyways, lets follow this theology out… Why even be a Quaker if everything is possible on your own? Why have a priest that baptizes you in spirit (whatever that means)? Why gather with two or three people? If he is your present teacher then why read the bible? Why have a priest? Why do anything?

And just so you are not confused about this Catholics believe Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and Mankind. We also believe the Church is the Body of Christ just like it says in scripture, with Jesus as it’s Head. So to say the Church and the Sacraments are irrelevant is a blasphemy against Jesus. Jesus Christ paid for the Church with his BLOOD (Acts 20:28) and instituted the Sacraments so that we would use them to live Holy Lives (John 6:53, Eucharist).

Jesus Himself is Priest alone. Each of us share in His Priesthood by faith in Him. He is out Baptizer into His Body. We are members of His Body thru the infilling of His Holy Spirit…“I baptize you with water…BUT there is One…who will baptize you with Holy Spirit and with Fire.” A cleansing Fire that no water can duplicate…we are Baptized and fillied in the Liviing Water.

As members of His Body we meet for worship in His Name…to experience the Presence of Christ in our Midst. He joins us together in Communion with Him and one another…He is Truly Present among us. We seek to Hear His Word Spoken to us. His Word can be Heard thru the writings of scripture…but one has to Listen.

Just reciting a passage from a book does not mean we’ve heard the Word of God…they are just human words writtten on a page and bound in black leather.

The Bible is a very human record of other’s experience with God…we read scripture and seek to discern the Word of God from it’s pages…as Jerimiah stated…" “I’ll put my Law within them and will write it on their hearts. I’ll be their God and they will be my people.” or a Paul stated."Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.’

When one experiences the Reality to which the sacraments point…no ritual is required to be performed for us or in our behalf by another human…to require a human priest to DO SOMETHING FOR US in order to be “saved” is something we reject. We have a Priest who had done EVERYTHING needed to come before God in boldness as His Children.

 

[Publisher]

Oh, indeed not! Without grace there is no salvation, no justification, no sanctification, no faith. It is by grace through faith that we are justified. Faith is, effectively, the vehicle by which we access grace, and it, too, is a gift of grace.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Do you, as a Lutheran, believe we are sanctified and justified in baptism?

Certainly the beginnings of it. Regeneration through baptism, the entering of the Holy Spirit, the beginning of justifying faith.

Jon

 

[Isaiah45_9]

When one experiences the Reality to which the sacraments point…no ritual is required to be performed for us or in our behalf by another human…to require a human priest to DO SOMETHING FOR US in order to be “saved” is something we reject. We have a Priest who had done EVERYTHING needed to come before God in boldness as His Children.

Publisher,

I have read many of your posts and I truly appreciate and admire the charity in your tone. However, I have a hard time understanding this jab… I have not read all the posts but I am guessing that you are responding to an ill informed Catholic, as such I am giving you the benefit of the doubt.

The Official position of the Catholic Church is this:

169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: "We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation."55 Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

IN BRIEF

619 “Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures” (I Cor 15:3).

620 Our salvation flows from God’s initiative of love for us, because “he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins” (I Jn 4:10). “God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself” (2 Cor 5:19).

621 Jesus freely offered himself for our salvation. Beforehand, during the Last Supper, he both symbolized this offering and made it really present: “This is my body which is given for you” (Lk 22:19).

622 The redemption won by Christ consists in this, that he came “to give his life as a ransom for many” (Mt 20:28), that is, he “loved [his own] to the end” (Jn 13:1), so that they might be “ransomed from the futile ways inherited from [their] fathers” (I Pt 1:18).

623 By his loving obedience to the Father, “unto death, even death on a cross” (Phil 2:8), Jesus fulfills the atoning mission (cf. Is 53:10) of the suffering Servant, who will “make many righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities” (Is 53:11; cf. Rom 5:19).

 

[Isaiah45_9]

A complete misunderstanding of the use of the term “sola”. Each sola has to do with an exclusion of anything else in regards the particular term is qualifies. For example, there is no other way that we come to salvation other than grace. Without grace, there is no faith, no justification, no sanctification, no salvation. Therefore, by grace alone.
The sola in sola fide is an exclusion of any other means by which we access justification, not by works of the law, not by our own merit, not by our own actions. Therefore, we are justified by Grace alone through faith alone.
The sola in sola Christus is the recognition that the actions and person of the God-man, Jesus Christ, are the only thing that makes salvation possible. It is the suffering, death and ressurection of our Savior only that makes salvation possible.
The solas do not exclude each other because they do not refer to each other.

Jon

You said what I was trying to say in more precise language!

Sigh… I might regret saying this because I truly love both of you and I really enjoy the passion you both have for the Lord.

But…

Why use a term you don’t intend to give its proper meaning in the first place?

 

[JonNC]

Sigh… I might regret saying this because I truly love both of you and I really enjoy the passion you both have for the Lord.

But…

Why use a term you don’t intend to give its proper meaning in the first place?

Why would you regret such a question, Jose?

What I was trying to explain, poorly perhaps , is that the sola is specific for the term to which it modifies.

For a number of years I officiated high school football. In football rules there are lots of “alone’s” or “only’s”. For example, only 4 offensive players can be off the line of scrimmage at the snap. Only 11 players can be on the field for the offense. The only in the first doesn’t impact the only in the second, because the only in each does not apply to the other.

The sola in by grace alone isn’t an exclusion of faith, since faith is a gift of grace. The sola in faith does not exclude grace, because faith comes via grace. Neither exclude Christ, because His actions and righteousness are the grace from with faith received.

Jon

 

[Publisher]

Publisher,

I have read many of your posts and I truly appreciate and admire the charity in your tone. However, I have a hard time understanding this jab… I have not read all the posts but I am guessing that you are responding to an ill informed Catholic, as such I am giving you the benefit of the doubt.

The Official position of the Catholic Church is this:

169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: "We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation."55 Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

IN BRIEF

619 “Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures” (I Cor 15:3).

620 Our salvation flows from God’s initiative of love for us, because “he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins” (I Jn 4:10). “God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself” (2 Cor 5:19).

621 Jesus freely offered himself for our salvation. Beforehand, during the Last Supper, he both symbolized this offering and made it really present: “This is my body which is given for you” (Lk 22:19).

622 The redemption won by Christ consists in this, that he came “to give his life as a ransom for many” (Mt 20:28), that is, he “loved [his own] to the end” (Jn 13:1), so that they might be “ransomed from the futile ways inherited from [their] fathers” (I Pt 1:18).

623 By his loving obedience to the Father, “unto death, even death on a cross” (Phil 2:8), Jesus fulfills the atoning mission (cf. Is 53:10) of the suffering Servant, who will “make many righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities” (Is 53:11; cf. Rom 5:19).

Friend, My response was NOT a jab at Catholic belief…it was an EXPLANATION of Quaker belief…I was asked about Friends view of sacraments and the “heresy” we embrrace by a Catholic.

I have done my utmost on my years here to always be respectful of Catholic belief…but what I have found many times is that when asked to clarify Quaker belief…or explain Quaker belief…in doing so I have been accused of taking a “jab” at Catholic theology…it is not a “jab” at Catholic theology…it is stating as clearly and plainly as possible Quaker thought and belief.

I realize it conflicts with your beliefs. I also realize that on this board Catholics are allowed to state our respective beliefs are “heresy” yet if we state our beliefs plainly and clearly…even when asked…there is sometimes umbrage taken by Catholics as a “jab” when doing so…even when asked.

If I have offended you, please accept my heart felt apology, it was not intentional…I was not addressing Catholic belief, I was stating Quakeer belief…but I cannot help that some Quaker beliefs…especially when it concerns “sacraments” go against Catholic thought and doctrine…if I embraced your beliefs…I would be a Catholic…I don’t however…but stating my beliefs as a Friend is not meant to take a “jab” at Catholic belief and doctrine.

Again, if I have offended you by stating Friends belief…it was not intentional…I shall endeavor to be more “sensitive” to your faith tradition when asked about Quaker theology.

Peace to you friend.

 

[Miriam1947]

I can only speak clearly for one Protestant faith since I was a member of that denomination before converting to Catholicism.

When I was Baptist, I never heard about repenting of a sin. When I got “saved” at 5 and said the Sinner’s Prayer, I was taught that all my sins in the past, present and future are forgiven. So if all my sins in the future were already forgiven, there would be no need to confess and repent of them. This of course is a concept that is gravely wrong, but that is how they are taught.

They believe that their faith alone in Jesus Christ will save them and it does not matter what they do, they will still be saved because they “asked Jesus to come into their heart and save them.”

Praise God I found the Catholic Church

There is a forum that I occasionally participate in where that is exactly what is said. And of course that we Catholics have added, yada, yada, yada and we’re all going to hell because of it.

 

[jrtrent]

Why use a term you don’t intend to give its proper meaning in the first place?

I suppose a counter-question could be “How does one determine its proper meaning in the first place?” Since these five “solas” emerged during the reformation, their original meaning couldn’t have been that faith alone stands all by itself to the exclusion of any other aspect of Christian theology. Often, the solas are strung together in a phrase that include two or more of them, such as, “Justification is by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone. This is the article by which the church stands or falls.” This shows that the originators of the terms never intended that any one of them was complete in itself, even though each is described with the word alone.

The Rev. John Samson explains stringing all five of the together this way, “the Reformers, in articulating the five Solas used prepositions to state these central truths. They explain how five things all work together in the plan of God, and yet each is distinct in itself, without the mixture of anything else added to it. Note the words that are capitalized in the following sentence: BASED ON Scripture alone, we can affirm that justification is BY grace alone, THROUGH Faith alone, BECAUSE OF Christ alone, all TO THE GLORY OF God alone.” reformationtheology.com/2010/07/the_five_solas_five_things_tog_1.php

And the reason the solas came about was a way to contrast reformed theology with Catholic theology. Again from Samson, “Now see the contrast between the Reformers and the Roman Catholic Church. Rome believed (then as it does now) that justification is by grace, through faith and because of Christ. What Rome does not believe is that justification is by faith alone, or by grace alone, or by Christ alone. For Rome, justification is by grace plus merit, through faith plus works; by Christ plus the sinner’s contribution of inherent righteousness.”

Of course, it is not only Catholics who deny the validity of the solas. Here’s an interesting quote about Arminian Protestants and their relation to the solas:

“But do Arminians embrace the “solas” (only’s) of the Reformation? How do we square the evangelical notion of sola Scriptura with Wesley’s Quadrangle of Tradition, Reason, Scripture, and Experience, which a respected Methodist theologian has himself recently cited as a culprit in the liberalism of the United Methodist Church? Or sola gratia, when, at the end of the day, one’s salvation is conditioned on the extent of one’s cooperation with grace? Is sola fide really affirmed when Arminian evangelicals, from John Wesley to Fuller Seminary’s Russell Spittler warn, in the words of the latter, “Simultaneously justified and sinful? I wish it were so. I simply fear it’s not”? Or when 86% of America’s professing evangelicals say that in salvation “God helps those who help themselves”? And can we really affirm soli Deo gloria (to God alone be glory) when we place the efficient cause of salvation in the hands of free will rather than in God’s gracious work?” monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/questions/onesidedreformation.html

 

[SteveVH]

Why would you regret such a question, Jose?

What I was trying to explain, poorly perhaps , is that the sola is specific for the term to which it modifies.

For a number of years I officiated high school football. In football rules there are lots of “alone’s” or “only’s”. For example, only 4 offensive players can be off the line of scrimmage at the snap. Only 11 players can be on the field for the offense. The only in the first doesn’t impact the only in the second, because the only in each does not apply to the other.

The sola in by grace alone isn’t an exclusion of faith, since faith is a gift of grace. The sola in faith does not exclude grace, because faith comes via grace. Neither exclude Christ, because His actions and righteousness are the grace from with faith received.

Jon

Hey John.

So where do works fit into all of this? If we are justified by “faith alone” (which is not found in the sacred texts) given to us through grace alone then it would seem that works have no place in our salvation. Yet it is by our works that we will be judged:

“Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.” (Revelation 22:1)

“He repays a man for what he has done; he brings upon him what his conduct deserves.” (Job 34:11)

“I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve.” (Jeremiah 17:10)

And there are many, many more verses, as you are no doubt aware, that speak to the importance of works.

We are judged by our works because they are the evidence of our faith. Faith and works are inextricably tied together so that neither is worth anything without the other. That is why “faith alone” just doesn’t work as far as I can see because faith alone without works is dead. We are justified by faith as evidenced by our works. And even our works are not our works but the works of God so we have no reason to boast. If we allow God to work through us we build his kingdom. If we resist God’s desire to work in us we break down his kingdom. Works give life to our faith and faith gives meaning to our works, but we cannot have one without the other.

Please tell me what I’m missing?

 

[JonNC]

Hey John.

So where do works fit into all of this? If we are justified by “faith alone” (which is not found in the sacred texts) given to us through grace alone then it would seem that works have no place in our salvation. Yet it is by our works that we will be judged:

“Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.” (Revelation 22:1)

“He repays a man for what he has done; he brings upon him what his conduct deserves.” (Job 34:11)

“I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve.” (Jeremiah 17:10)

And there are many, many more verses, as you are no doubt aware, that speak to the importance of works.

We are judged by our works because they are the evidence of our faith. Faith and works are inextricably tied together so that neither is worth anything without the other. That is why “faith alone” just doesn’t work as far as I can see because faith alone without works is dead. We are justified by faith as evidenced by our works. And even our works are not our works but the works of God so we have no reason to boast. If we allow God to work through us we build his kingdom. If we resist God’s desire to work in us we break down his kingdom. Works give life to our faith and faith gives meaning to our works, but we cannot have one without the other.

Please tell me what I’m missing?

Better than I could, the Formula of Concord provides an indepth statement regarding the importance and, yes, necessity of good works here:

bookofconcord.org/sd-goodworks.php

Jon

 

[jrtrent]

Hey John.

So where do works fit into all of this? If we are justified by “faith alone” (which is not found in the sacred texts) given to us through grace alone then it would seem that works have no place in our salvation. Yet it is by our works that we will be judged

I’m not JohnNC, but it’s a great question and, as I am also John, I thought I’d just quickly give an answer from Berkhof’s Christian Reformed perspective (he has many scripture references for some of the following points, but I’ve left them out due to laziness). Unlike justification, which is wholly the work of God, sanctification is “a work of God in which believers co-operate. . . God effects the work in part through the instrumentality of man as a rational being, by requiring of him prayerful and intelligent co-operation with the Spirit. That man must co-operate with the Spirit of God follows: (a) from the repeated warnings against evils and temptations . . .; and (b) from the constant exhortations to holy living. These imply that the believer must be diligent in the employment of the means at his command for the moral and spiritual improvement of his life.” Systematic Theology, page 534

With respect to judgement, he says, “For all those who appear in judgement, entrance into, or exclusion from, heaven, will depend on the question, whether they are clothed with the righteousness of Jesus Christ. But there will be different degrees, both of the bliss of heaven and of the punishment of hell. And these degrees will be determined by what is done in the flesh.” Systematic Theology, pages 733-734