Faith Alone, Equivalent to Nothing?

[JonNC]

I agree when I initially wrote that I had a false interpretation of your post.

Sorry.

Not a problem!

Jon

 

[Christian_Unity]

You have to co-operate with Gods will in order to accept the free gift of Salvation. So in a strict sense your Salvation is on yourself, or better yet your own choices. If you choose to reject salvation which is a free gift from God then your own damnation is upon yourself as well. Call it whatever you like but I choose to partake in Gods free gift of salvation and to continue to co-operate with it, if I fail to do this then what is to become of Gods free gift of salvation?

There is simply two views on justification: Monergism and Synergism.

Monergism: God is sovereign in salvation.
Synergism: Man is sovereign in salvation.

Check out Mongersim.com for additional insight and study regarding those who believe in justification by faith alone.

 

[Azygos]

There is simply two views on justification: Monergism and Synergism.

Monergism: God is sovereign in salvation.
Synergism: Man is sovereign in salvation.

Check out Mongersim.com for additional insight and study regarding those who believe in justification by faith alone.

Call it whatever you like but only those who do the WILL of the Father are allowed into Heaven.

Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the WILL of my Father in heaven.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Call it whatever you like but only those who do the WILL of the Father are allowed into Heaven.

Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the WILL of my Father in heaven.

Nobody is able to do the will of the Father perfectly with the exception of Jesus. Therefore, what percentage is required in doing the will of the Father to enter Heaven? Maybe you just need to do 51% (+) to enter Heaven in the synergism view?

 

[Azygos]

There is simply two views on justification: Monergism and Synergism.

Monergism: God is sovereign in salvation.
Synergism: Man is sovereign in salvation.

Check out Mongersim.com for additional insight and study regarding those who believe in justification by faith alone.

Monergism describes the position in Christian theology of those who believe that God, through the Holy Spirit, works to bring about effectually the salvation of individuals through spiritual regeneration without cooperation from the individual. ~ Wiki ~

If you do not have to co-operate as an individual then you are a slave to the grace of God which is ignorant and also fits with your false doctrine of eternal assurance. We have to co-operate with the grace of God lest we be disqualified and have our names erased from the book of life.

Just because man uses his free will to co-operate with the free gift of Salvation that God gives freely, does not diminish the gospel. I think this glorifies the Gospel even more. If we didn’t have a choice whether or not to co-operate with the free gift of salvation then we would be slaves but we not are slaves but friends of Christ. If we are slaves then we are willingly slaves to Christ by co-operating with him. Abraham was accredited friend of God by co-operating with Gods WILL. How can you say that co-operation with God is not needed or irrelevant?

 

[Azygos]

Nobody is able to do the will of the Father perfectly with the exception of Jesus. Therefore, what percentage is required in doing the will of the Father to enter Heaven? Maybe you just need to do 51% (+) to enter Heaven in the synergism view?

Matthew 5:48
48 So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.

We are called to perfection… It is up to God to be the Just Judge.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Matthew 5:48
48 So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.

We are called to perfection… It is up to God to be the Just Judge.

It must be tough not to know your eternal destiny because nobody is able to obey the will of the Father perfectly with the exception of Jesus. How do you see God, as your judge or temporary Father based on how you perform in this world? If you claim justice, and will claim mercy and grace found in the sufficiency of Jesus Christ who is the object of my faith alone.

 

[rcwitness]

Nobody is able to do the will of the Father perfectly with the exception of Jesus. Therefore, what percentage is required in doing the will of the Father to enter Heaven? Maybe you just need to do 51% (+) to enter Heaven in the synergism view?

There is truth in what you are saying, according to the Law. But the law of Christ is based on love. Which is forgiveness of our failings. How do we receive forgiveness? Repentance! Do we repent in secret to God only? No, we repent to our Brethren, who is the body we belong to…the mystical body of Christ. This is fullfiling the will of the father. This is His command. And we are made perfect through this work of faith. It is not our work, as if we are the source of this way. It is His work done in us. It is our concent and determination to do His work out of love for Him.

Grace,
Michael

 

[Azygos]

Here is a good answer for your specific problem.

Philippians 2:12-13
12 So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, **work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
**
13 For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.

From this Forum:forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=508897

kmaaj kmaaj is offline
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Default balancing the scriptures-monergism vs. synergism
Holding seemingly opposites equally as truth…

What brought this up is myself noticing that those who push absolute monergism rely soley on Pauline epistles, while belittling other epistles and even the words of our Lord to make their point.

I have no problem saying it’s all God. I have no problem acknowledging His exhortations to me to cooperate in His plan of salvation. When it comes to monergism vs. synergism, why does it have to be “either/or”? When holding up the relevant scriptures to the subject, seems to me the only logical conclusion is “yes” to both.

coPolo MarcoPolo is offline
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Default Re: balancing the scriptures-monergism vs. synergism
There are plenty of passages in Paul’s letters, also, that use language indicative of the person’s role in responding to grace. Those who criticize Catholics for ever using so-called “synergistic” language give Paul a free pass for doing the same.

dmar198 dmar198 is offline
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Default Re: balancing the scriptures-monergism vs. synergism

It seems that it has to be either/or because “mono” contradicts “syne.” However, there is one good way to reconcile them: for adults who convert to Christianity, their salvation begins as monogernistic because whatever grace God offers them is in no way produced by themselves, only by God. After that initial grace begins has acted upon them, preparing them to be able to know God’s will, and once God’s will is revealed to them to join the Church, it is up to them either to cooperate with that grace or reject it (synergism).

The initial moment of salvation, for an infant during baptism, is certainly monogernist, because an infant can in no way cooperate with anything at all, at least not intentionally.

Dave Armstrong, Catholic apologist, writes about this frequently. See this link for more: “Dave Armstrong - Mongergism as a Characteristic of Initial Justification” socrates58.blogspot.com/2010/01/monergism-as-characteristic-of-initial.html

 

[Azygos]

It must be tough not to know your eternal destiny because nobody is able to obey the will of the Father perfectly with the exception of Jesus. How do you see God, as your judge or temporary Father based on how you perform in this world? If you claim justice, and will claim mercy and grace found in the sufficiency of Jesus Christ who is the object of my faith alone.

I am terrified of God because I know I am not perfect. This makes me run to him even more and rightly so. This helps me to know that I am on the right path and the Lord is helping to make my Path Straight. Holy Fear is one of the 7 gifts from God. I cling onto the Lord my God, Jesus Christ as a Child in Need, which ironically he said unless you come to me as a child you cannot see the kingdom of heaven. This also brings to mind of this Parable below.

Luke 18
9 He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else.
10 “Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’
13 But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, ‘O God, be merciful to me a sinner.’
14 I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Matthew 10:28
28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one (GOD) who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Jeremiah 5
22 Should you not fear me, says the LORD, should you not tremble before me? I made the sandy shore the sea’s limit, which by eternal decree it may not overstep. Toss though it may, it is to no avail; though its billows roar, they cannot pass.
23 But this people’s heart is stubborn and rebellious; they turn and go away,
24 And say NOT in their hearts, "Let us fear the LORD, our God, Who gives us rain early and late, in its time; Who watches for us over the appointed weeks of harvest."

 

[SteveVH]

Nobody is able to do the will of the Father perfectly with the exception of Jesus. Therefore, what percentage is required in doing the will of the Father to enter Heaven? Maybe you just need to do 51% (+) to enter Heaven in the synergism view?

The will of the Father is that His children return to His arms. He looks down the road, wating to see a glimpse of us. And when he does, he runs down the road to meet us, giving us new garments and a ring on our finger and a feast in celebration of our return.

To do the will of the Father means to first of all turn toward Him (conversion) and begin walking ever closer. We have a Father who loves us and knows, better than we, how weak we really are and how in need of salvation. Christ established a Church for the very purpose of saving us. There is realy no other reason. Through his Church he provided the channels of grace through which we would be saved. We would enter God’s family as adopted sons and daughters through Baptism. He would feed us with his own flesh and blood in the Eucharist and cleanse us from our sins by providing a means to Reconciliation where we can be forgiven and once again fall into the arms of the Father.

So to do the Father’s will doesn’t mean to be perfect, rather it means to accept the grace God offers to a sinful people through his Church. This grace is received through the sacraments which Christ himself instituted and which are administered by the Church. The Church does not just lead us to salvation, it is, in fact, salvation itself because it is Christ’s own presence on earth. It is Christ who feeds us and Christ who forgives us and Christ who annoints us. The sad thing, in our modern day, is not that so many Christians reject the sacraments, but that so many are completely ignorant of them and therefore ignorant of Christ’s plan for their salvation.

 

[rcwitness]

The will of the Father is that His children return to His arms. He looks down the road, wating to see a glimpse of us. And when he does, he runs down the road to meet us, giving us new garments and a ring on our finger and a feast in celebration of our return.

To do the will of the Father means to first of all turn toward Him (conversion) and begin walking ever closer. We have a Father who loves us and knows, better than we, how weak we really are and how in need of salvation. Christ established a Church for the very purpose of saving us. There is realy no other reason. Through his Church he provided the channels of grace through which we would be saved. We would enter God’s family as adopted sons and daughters through Baptism. He would feed us with his own flesh and blood in the Eucharist and cleanse us from our sins by providing a means to Reconciliation where we can be forgiven and once again fall into the arms of the Father.

So to do the Father’s will doesn’t mean to be perfect, rather it means to accept the grace God offers to a sinful people through his Church. This grace is received through the sacraments which Christ himself instituted and which are administered by the Church. The Church does not just lead us to salvation, it is, in fact, salvation itself because it is Christ’s own presence on earth. It is Christ who feeds us and Christ who forgives us and Christ who annoints us. The sad thing, in our modern day, is not that so many Christians reject the sacraments, but that so many are completely ignorant of them and therefore ignorant of Christ’s plan for their salvation.

Nihil Obstat

 

[Christian_Unity]

Monergism: In regeneration, the Holy Spirit unites us to Christ independent of any cooperation from our unregenerated human nature. He quickens us through the outward call cast forth by the preaching of His Word, disarms our innate hostility, removes our blindness, illumines our mind, creates understanding, turns our heart of stone to a heart of flesh – giving rise to a delight in His Word – all that we might, with our renewed affections, willingly & gladly embrace Christ. The Prophet Ezekiel inspired by the Holy Spirit asserted “I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.” (Eze 11:19, also 36:26) The Apostle Paul said, “For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction.” (1 Thess 1, 4, 5). I.e. In regeneration the word does not work alone but must be accompanied by the “germination” of the Holy Spirit. And again “…you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God.” (1 Pet 1:23)

The Century Dictionary defines it as follows:

“In theology, the doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the only efficient agent in regeneration - that the human will possesses no inclination to holiness until regenerated, and therefore cannot cooperate in regeneration.”

It means that the very desire for faith, by which we believe in Him who justifies the ungodly comes to us through regeneration – and if anyone says that this belongs to us by nature and not by a gift of grace, that is, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit amending our will and turning it from unbelief to faith and from godlessness to godliness, he/she ignores the teaching of the Apostles, for Paul says, “…Even when we were dead in sins, [God] hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved.” and “…he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5) And again, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8). or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, “What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7), and, “But by the grace of God I am what I am” (1 Cor. 15:10).

It is in contrast to synergism which the Century Dictionary defines as

“…the doctrine that there are two efficient agents in regeneration, namely the human will and the divine Spirit, which, in the strict sense of the term, cooperate. This theory accordingly holds that the soul has not lost in the fall all inclination toward holiness, nor all power to seek for it under the influence of ordinary motives.”

 

[Azygos]

How do you explain this scripture?

Philippians 2:12-13
12 So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. (Why work? Why Fear and Trembling… What are we supposed to be afraid of?)

13 For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.

 

[SteveVH]

Nihil Obstat

You are much to kind.

 

[SteveVH]

How do you explain this scripture?

Philippians 2:12-13
12 So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. (Why work? Why Fear and Trembling… What are we supposed to be afraid of?)

13 For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.

I don’t know to whom your question is being addressed but I believe it means that we are to fear that which can destroy our souls (i.e. sin) and that we must run the race to the end as one who desires to win. It speaks directly against “once saved, always saved”.

 

[Christian_Unity]

How do you explain this scripture?

Philippians 2:12-13
12 So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. (Why work? Why Fear and Trembling… What are we supposed to be afraid of?)

13 For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.

Protestant reformed theology understands justification (conversion- born again) to be based on monergism. After the conversion to Christ, the sanctification process or journey as a Christian is based on synergism (God and man). Therefore, you see synergism at work in the transformation process, yet God is still sovereign in the process. Phil 2:12-13 is a clear Scripture showing that the process of sanctification is based on synergism.

 

[Azygos]

I don’t know to whom your question is being addressed but I believe it means that we are to fear that which can destroy our souls (i.e. sin) and that we must run the race to the end as one who desires to win. It speaks directly against “once saved, always saved”.

Amen Brother.

I was putting that out there for ‘Christian Unity’, our separated brother that we love.

 

[Azygos]

Protestant reformed theology understands justification (conversion- born again) to be based on monergism. After the conversion to Christ, the sanctification process or journey as a Christian is based on synergism (God and man). Therefore, you see synergism at work in the transformation process, yet God is still sovereign in the process. Phil 2:12-13 is a clear Scripture showing that the process of sanctification is based on synergism.

I’m glad you cleared that up but now how do you justify the Doctrine of Faith alone… After all your own words, " the sanctification process or journey as a Christian is based on synergism (God and man)."

You sound more Catholic now than you realize!
When are you going to come home brother?

 

[Christian_Unity]

I’m glad you cleared that up but now how do you justify the Doctrine of Faith alone… After all your own words, " the sanctification process or journey as a Christian is based on synergism (God and man)."

You sound more Catholic now than you realize!
When are you going to come home brother?

Sola Fide was never based on easy believism because those who were justified by faith alone will be transformed to the image of Christ based on the transforming and sustaining grace of God which works powerfully in those who are in Christ. When an elect of God who is in Christ drifts and falls back into sin, God will chastise or discipline those who are His.